Support for Far RIght? « Singletrack Forum

Chat Forum

[closed]

Support for Far RIght?

95 posts & 25 voices | Started 1 year ago by ditch_jockey | Latest reply from McHamish

Tags:

No tags yet.

Pages: 12 3 Next »

ditch_jockey - Member

Guardian Report on Far-Right Support

Anyone got any more details on this, as the Guardian report is rather incoherent. I'm presuming the conflation of the terms British and English is poor reporting, rather than a feature of the report, otherwise it would make it difficult to know how realistic the findings were. While I don't doubt that there would be support for anti-immigration policies in Scotland, Wales and NI, I'd imagine trying to identify UK-wide trends might mask more meaningful tendencies within each of the constituent countries.

Posted 1 year ago #
loddrik - Member

Liverpool is the 'whitest' big city in the uk, don't think there's massive support for the far right though. Having said that there's probably a lot of latent racism about.

Posted 1 year ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

the Guardian report is rather incoherent

I agree. And the article/report appears to be jumping to all sorts of conclusions on the flimsiest of "evidence".

I'm surprised, because I have the utmost respect for Searchlight, an organisation which has for decades engaged in the vital work of keeping tabs on, and exposing, racist and fascist organisations.

Posted 1 year ago #
MoreCashThanDash - Member

I think there is a lot of anti-immigrant feeling about however unpalatable that is, but a lot of people who might want to restrict immigration would stop short of voting for the far right - it's degrees along a continuum.

The challenge is to address the concerns/dispel the perceptions, without fuelling the flames.

Posted 1 year ago #
TurnerGuy - Member

Didn't notice any British trying to stop that armed robbery on a jewellery store the other day, only an 'immigrant':

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/856201-jewellery-robbery-hero-just-an-ordinary-man-trying-to-do-the-right-thing

Posted 1 year ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

Cheeky gits.......they come over here and apprehend our own armed robbers - who the **** do they think they are

Besides, if they're not UK citizens, then presumably they haven't the authority do a citizen's arrest

Posted 1 year ago #
MoreCashThanDash - Member

Whereas the recent armed robbery foilers in Northampton and Peterborough were not obviously non-white/British.

Your point was?

Posted 1 year ago #
mrmo - Member

look at british society today, and i mean look closely.

immigration has gone up alot, unemployment is up alot. it doesn't take a genius to link the two together. The reality might be skills shortages and the like, but the counter argument is why can't the local population be trained to do the job? Look at care/nursing for an extreme example, there is a huge reliance on filipino nurses to provide cover. The argument you here is the wages are too low so people don't want to do the job. So remove the filipinos and wages would have to rise to encourage people to do the work.

Look at factory work, most factories rely heavily on polish labour and have used this as a way of keeping wages down.

Remember this argument is not about whether you want the job or not, it is about image.

Now place yourself in the lower socio economic groups and tell me that immigration is a good thing when you can't get a job, and if you are lucky the wages will have been static for a decade?

Posted 1 year ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

immigration has gone up alot, unemployment is up alot. it doesn't take a genius to link the two together.

No, it takes an idiot to do that.

Posted 1 year ago #
allthepies - Member

Posted 1 year ago #
mrmo - Member

Ernie, i think you are displaying the problem in the UK of a certain sector, why is that statement wrong. Politicians need to confront the attitude and tell people why they are wrong not just dimiss their concerns as *******s. If you don't address the concerns fascism rises. it has in the past and in all probability it will again.

You can laugh at the daily mail but far to many people read it and BELIEVE it!!!

Posted 1 year ago #
chewkw - Member

Is that a surprise? I thought this is rather normal when govt become so out of touch with the people and career politicians become celebrities. Way to go let's screw the people while I get a book deal for my memoir. Look at me, look at me, I am shy I am a politician.

What's this deal about giving aid to foreign govts/countries? Are they starving? What's the point of multiplying when they do not have the resources to feed their people?

Posted 1 year ago #
Stoner - Member

Now I know, Ernie, you're not going to treat anything by Fraser Nelson (previously political editor of The Scotsman and a business reporter with The Times. In addition to his role as editor of The Spectator, Nelson is also a political columnist for the News of the World) with a great deal of respect. And indeed I cant abide the NoTW, but when it comes to getting inside the stats and making graphs I come a poor second to him

immigration has gone up a lot, unemployment is up alot. it doesn't take a genius to link the two together.

I think the simplicity of the statement is wrong, but there's some interesting stats around national origin and new jobs take up:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3722968/immigration-facts-and-figures.thtml

Posted 1 year ago #
khani - Member

What's this deal about giving aids to foreign govts/ countries

Elvis told me that the US government gave em aids,
with monkeys!

Posted 1 year ago #
Stoner - Member

Im off out for a walk in the watery sunshine. I expect this thread to be a full on STW-nuclear-war-fest by the time I get back. ....mmm'kay!?

Posted 1 year ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

why is that statement wrong.

It's wrong on too many levels and I don't have enough time. The reasons for the current increases in unemployment are a tad more complex than you suggest.

Sure, I won't deny that many people will look for simplistic answers and handy scapegoats, but it doesn't make it right.

And just for the record, I strongly support tight immigration controls and consider the "open door" EU policy to be a disaster for Britain.

Posted 1 year ago #
chewkw - Member

khani - Member

Elvis told me that the us government gave em aids, with monkeys!

LOL! That's a good one. Yes, spread the goodwill give them aids. LOL!

p/s: edited ... aid not aids.

Posted 1 year ago #
Junkyard - Member

women working has gone up a lot, unemployment is up alot. it doesn't take a genius to link the two together

I say keep women in the home and we would all be sorted. I mean even not paying the same as us has not discouraged them

Now place yourself in the lower socio economic groups and tell me that immigration is a good thing when you can't get a job, and if you are lucky the wages will have been static for a decade?

I think you make a reasonable point here. Immigration/cheap labour has held wage levels low/down.

Posted 1 year ago #
mrmo - Member

stoner/ernie, i am aware it is a very simplistic statement, but look at the graphs, jobs are going to foreign born workers, not to british born workers.

The reasons are almost irrelevant to the mindset of some sectors of society. But they must be challenged!

What to do about it, now that is the question, we can keep on importing more and more workers, refusing to build new housing, failing to ensure an adequate skills pool and at some point something will have to give, ie fascism. Or we can look where we are, and begin to think about where we want to be and what needs to be done to bring the whole population along. This isn't the middle ages where you can tell people to clean out the pig sties and as long as they are good church goers they will go to heaven whilst their lords enjoy every luxury.

Posted 1 year ago #
dandelionandmurdoch - Member

Those graphs posted by Stoner made me actually clench my fists in anger. Not because of the contents 'showing' how Johnny Foreigner and all his foreign mates are coming over here and taking our jobs, but because of the deplorable use of scales in the first and third graphs.

Accurate and truthful they very may well be, but unbiased they are not.

EDIT: Oh crapola, I just fell off my chair in painful hysterics when I looked beyond the pictures and noticed where the graphs came from and read what Stoner said about that twonk's graph-making abilities. Genuine LOL.

Posted 1 year ago #
noteeth - Member

I'll say this... without the sterling efforts of (among others) Filipino nurses, healthcare in this country would simply collapse. They are, generally speaking, superbly professional nurses - hardworking and polite.

The irony of Daily Wail readers moaning about foreigners doing oh-so-icky jobs they would never do themselves never ceases to amaze me. **** 'em, tbh.

Posted 1 year ago #
mrmo - Member

noteeth, my So works in healthcare alot of the people she works with are filipino, and yes the system is now over reliant on foreign staff.

Look at it slightly differently, wages are crap, is this what they are or would removing the foreign nurses mean the wages would be better.

It is all well and good for a politician in their islington flat quaffing some cristal to tell everyone that immigration is a good thing. But they never actually say why it is a good thing when people live in crowded slums, worrying about the latest fuel hike.

Posted 1 year ago #
noteeth - Member

would removing the foreign nurses mean the wages would be better

The big freeze in nursing wages ain't going to thaw anytime soon.

The further irony, of course, is that the NHS has always relied upon foreign nurses and medics. There is a pretty healthy global labour market in nursing - if you are an experienced critical care nurse, for example, every developed healthcare system in the world wants you!

Frankly, I'd rather not see the back of the Filipinos I work with. Aptitude in acute care always shines thru, whether you are foreign or not - and there's nothing to stop Brits getting on with it.

Posted 1 year ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

There is a pretty healthy global labour market in nursing - if you are an experienced critical care nurse, for example, every developed healthcare system in the world wants you!

I don't see anything "healthy" about poaching fully trained healthcare workers from poor Third World countries. In fact it stinks imo.

Posted 1 year ago #
chewkw - Member

mrmo - Member

noteeth, my So works in healthcare alot of the people she works with are filipino, and yes the system is now over reliant on foreign staff.

Then after working 5 years legally, same goes to other industries in UK, they can apply for green card / citizenship. Try doing that in US of A.

Posted 1 year ago #
noteeth - Member

I don't see anything "healthy" about poaching fully trained healthcare workers from poor Third World countries

That's a somewhat separate point, Ernie (and in public health terms, one I'd be inclined to agree with). My point was: if you have those skills, the world is wide open.

Posted 1 year ago #
chewkw - Member

noteeth - Member

That's a somewhat separate point, Ernie (and in public health terms, one I'd be inclined to agree with). My point was: if you have those skills, the world is wide open.

But why give greencard after working for 5 years? Why not 10?

Posted 1 year ago #
big_n_daft - Member

The reasons for the current increases in unemployment are a tad more complex than you suggest.

yes, you have to factor in that EU nationals have to work for 2 (IIRC)years before they qualify for UK benefits, hence will work or run out of money

now the first wave will soon be able to claim thus pushing up UK unemployments stats further, not to mention all the kids back in the home country already on UK child benefits, tax credits etc, etc

I strongly support tight immigration controls and consider the "open door" EU policy to be a disaster for Britain

really??!

closet daily wail supporter afterall?

define "tight" and also show how you would comply with Human Rights Legislation, remember currently you can't get deported if you have a kid who is in the UK legally

Posted 1 year ago #
mrmo - Member

Then after working 5 years legally, same goes to other industries in UK, they can apply for citizenship. Try doing that in US of A.

but do we want to go down the "guest workers" route, where your children can be born in a country and still not be entitled to citizenship.

Posted 1 year ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

define "tight" and also show how you would comply with Human Rights Legislation

What's this .............an exam question ?

Posted 1 year ago #
chewkw - Member

big_n_daft - Member

really??!

closet daily wail supporter afterall?

define "tight" and also show how you would comply with Human Rights Legislation, remember currently you can't get deported if you have a kid who is in the UK legally

Or if you are here for a year or less and your wife conceived and later gives birth the child is automatically a citizen. Try that in Japan.

Posted 1 year ago #
grumm - Member

OK so I'm probably thick - but isn't this graph very misleading?

Posted 1 year ago #
chewkw - Member

mrmo - Member

but do we want to go down the "guest workers" route, where your children can be born in a country and still not be entitled to citizenship.

The children should follow the parents even if the children are born abroad. i.e. if non of the parents are UK citizen/permanent resident(s) then why should a short term visitor be granted green card?

Posted 1 year ago #
mrmo - Member

OK so I'm probably thick - but isn't this graph very misleading?

reasonably clear what they are saying to me, remember the source for bias reasons, but basically the number of UK born wokers has been falling from 2001, and the number of foreign born workers in the uk has been rising year on year for over a decade. Starting from 1.5million out of 20.5million at the beginning of the decade to 2.8million out of 20.5million in 2009.

Posted 1 year ago #
big_n_daft - Member

What's this .............an exam question ?

no, I'm just trying to understand how you could have a "daily wail" stance on immigration based on the tone/ content of previous posts which usually tend to deride people who hold views similar to those esposed by that paper

or have I got your left wing "but don't vote labour" (IIRC) views wrong?

Posted 1 year ago #