**** me Horwill cleared!!

He was cleared last week 😉

zokes – Member
I’m assuming that was sarcastic…

No. Why?

The IRB should never be taking sides against their independent judge’s decision.
IMO, at the time, it was a worthy citing.
But once he’s found not guilty, then he’s not guilty. Move on.

The IRB are the last people that should be trying to force a specific outcome.
It’s never happened before, and should never happen again.
You don’t keep re-trying him ’till you get a judge that does your bidding.
It calls into question the independence of the whole citing procedure.

With it being the final test before a summer off, I’m sure the players can look after themselves, even without Big Jim.
Beat the best they’ve got, no excuses.
But an unprecedented attempt to get their captain and best player banned for the critical game is a sneaky, desperate, cowardly tactic that reeks of G*****.

Forget being Scottish, Jim would never have been picked being Glaws captain. Seriously though, he was injured at the end of the season and could well have been in with a shout.

He was just getting in first before the next bit of dirty Irish play.

But once he’s found not guilty, then he’s not guilty. Move on.

Quite incorrect I’m afraid. There is video evidence of him stamping on AWJ’s face. Seeing as he did it, he’s guilty. The curious trend of citing panels choosing not to punish clear offences against touring Lions players doesn’t absolve him of the guilt.

But an unprecedented attempt to get their captain and best player banned for the critical game is a sneaky, desperate, cowardly tactic that reeks of G****

Their captain and best player stamped on another player’s head. There is video evidence, that evidence is quite clear an unequivocal. Seeking to get him punished officially, rather than inciting possibly worse retribution on the pitch is precisely what the sport’s governing body should be aiming to do.

It’s not a “trend”, it’s a tradition 😀

Zokes,
I’m afraid you’re trying to have last weeks argument.
Where were you when it was relevant?
😉

Where were you when it was relevant?

Finishing end of financial year client reports, which took pretty much every waking moment (and probably most of my dreams too).

However, it is clearly still relevant. The tour has one match remaining, and the stamping and Horwell are in the news today. Therefore it seems to be a current point of discussion, as other contributors have noted. Try again.

I don’t believe it to be a fair outcome, but it’s what we have got.
I’m more inclined to agree with Loum here. The powers that be have spoken, nothing we can do bout it now. If we can’t beat the aussies strongest team, it’s a bit hollow if we do win.
If we are to win, the coaching team needs to be more bold in their selection and tictacs IMHO. We could come very unstuck if we carry on punching it around the fringes trying to draw penalties. We need to unleash the beasts. Inflict maximum carnage. We have massive assets in Roberts and Tuilagi, who are both looking to be fit this week. **** USE THEM!

But an unprecedented attempt to get their captain and best player banned for the critical game is a sneaky, desperate, cowardly tactic that reeks of G*****.

I knew it would be that **** fault somehow!!!

Genuinely shocked that you’re not blaming Vunipola!
😉

The real disgrace was the original verdict clearing him, the fact is the second hearing isn’t a complete fresh review of the evidence. As I posted IMO it was a cynical and deliberate stamp, opposite side to ref, making a specific line to the point where AWJ was, one stamp so as to claim accidental.

Hopefully this will fire up the Lions and our support. Let’s rub their faces in it by winning anyway

A backline of Roberts, Tuilagi, North 1/2p and Cuthbert with BOD and JD on the bench?

Yes, that’ll do it…..

Loum….. 😆

Horwill guilty, bad decision

BOD will captain I think

back row I think he will start with croft.

Gray for second row

A bloke whose kids I teach (who is a rugby coach for a local teams) reckons Lydiate Croft Faletau at 6 7 8….then again he is Welsh 🙂

British and Irish Lions: Leigh Halfpenny (Wales), Tommy Bowe (Ireland), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Jamie Roberts (Wales), George North (Wales), Jonathan Sexton (Ireland), Mike Phillips (Wales); Alex Corbisiero (England), Richard Hibbard (Wales), Adam Jones (Wales), Alun Wyn Jones (captain, Wales), Geoff Parling (England), Dan Lydiate (Wales), Sean O’Brien (Ireland), Toby Faletau (Wales)
Replacements: Tom Youngs (England), Mako Vunipola (England), Dan Cole (England), Richie Gray (Scotland), Justin Tipuric (Wales), Conor Murray (Ireland), Owen Farrell (England), Manu Tuilagi (England)

AWJ capt, no BOD at all. It’s certainly bold. Think hibbard is a mistake though. Looks like Manu is going to get a run at them 😀

I’ve not really thought too much about Gatlands selections but this one appears barking mad.

Does he just put the names in a hat, or hold his finger in the air and then decide?

wrecker – Member

It’s certainly bold.

Well that’s one way of describing it. 😯

Gatland’s thinking appears to have been as muddled as SCW’s in NZ 2005.

The worst thing for this Lions’ tour was Wales thrashing England at the end of the 6N. Gatty picked his squad based entirely on that one (terrific) performance by Wales and forgot the previous 12 months of rugby altogether.

I’m not anti-Welsh. I love Welsh rugby – along with NZ they’re a proper rugby nation.

However, taking a whole bunch of Welshmen used to losing to SH opposition and then picking most of them for the tests hasn’t been the brightest of ideas.

I’m actually pleased that I won’t be able to see this now, I’m astonished by this selection (not in a good way!).
Sadly, I can’t help but think that the Welsh team isn’t the right one to beat the Aussies, and history does kind of back this up.

Ok backs – any “real” surprises there? Possibly BOD but apart from great tackling stats he looked the (v slightly) spent force that I feared all along so far in the tour. Then the debate on Phillips. Otherwise, pretty much the consensus team with Manu the 2H hit man.

Forwards – non of the hookers have impressed so best of an average bunch. Props picked themselves according to most pundits. Ok minor Grey v Parling debate but that is the 2H sub again. And anyone’s guess re the permutations in the back row.

So can’t see much room for selection angst personally. The question will be who among that lot (or any of the subs) will rove themselves as the ultimate match winner?

First time the bench has looked like it can make a real impact Vunipola, Tipuric, Grey, Tuilagi lets hope they are still in the game if/when they get on.

Oi Warren!

You forgot about Cuthbert

Who? 😉

I hope this is the team to do it.

A very proud moment for AWJ and after all the stamping debacle he has a wonderful opportunity to rub Howell’s nose in it.

BOD being out of the 23 is harsh on such a player but the fact is he hasn’t performed to a high enough level and Manu brings more impact off of the bench.

Falatau, I wish him the very best, its a massive step up for him I hope he can handle it.

I’m glad to see Phillips back, lets hope his first test performance was due to a dodgy knee.

Hibbard is mistake as per @Webber’s comments, his line-out throwing has been poor. I think the Aussie’s will fancy their chances of disrupting us there. IMO our lost throw at the end of the second test was a key element of our defeat.

I almost agree jambalaya (did you get my email BTW?) but Youngs throwing in was also pretty dire. Hibbs is a better scrummager but they are both line out liabilities IMO. 50/50 call IMO.

From the BBC story – Gatland said it was the first time a coach had dropped O’Driscoll in “15 years of rugby”.

Has Gatland done this just to say he has? Think BOD will be a big loss in defence, particularly with Poite as referee BODs breakdown skills would have been of benefit and more so with Warbuton out

He forget the other half of the nationality switch at centre. Should have done the opposite at half back ( and I am a MP fan normally) and gone Murray and Sexton to start.

Davies and Roberts will combine for breakthrough 1h score and Manu will do the same in 72nd minute. Gatts will ( undeservedly ? ) be crowned a hero! But I can take that as it happened in the 6N as well!!!!

A very proud moment for AWJ and after all the stamping debacle he has a wonderful opportunity to rub Howell Horwill’s nose in it.

^^This!^^

I said to my father some four years ago that AWJ would be captain of the Lions on this tour. I was right! (Sort of!)

Gatland has turned into Jeremy Clarkson. POWER is the only way it would seem. Kind of nervous. Will actually be able to watch this test having missed the 2 before working.

Wish em luck but off to look at the bookies odds for an oz win as I can see them having too much skill versus the bash plan that Gatland has put us on a collision course with.

Bruk you have hit the nail on the head. It’s a team picked for power over skill. I hope it is enough to beat the ozzies but I really doubt it.

For this type of game I can understand dropping BOD, but without him and Warbs they will struggle even more at the breakdown. It’s also a liability starting Riberts given that he has played very little rugby.

Maybe Gats wants to be known as the coach who give BOD his first cap and also the first to drop him?

Bizarre decision for a myriad of reasons. Those who agree with it don’t surprise me in the least.

O’driscolls experience and efforts at breakdown would have been invaluable. Besides which what exactly has jonathan davies done to retain his position, albeit shifted out one? Agreed with above in that murray should start and philips on the bench.

What exactly did croft do wrong coming off the bench to warrant being replaced by tipuric?

Welsh history against the Aussies….and he’s basically picked Wales.

Dec 12 Home Lost 14-12
June 12 Away Lost 20-19
June 12 Away Lost 25-23
June 12 Away Lost 27-19
Dec 11 Home Lost 24-18
Oct 11 World Cup in NZ Lost 21-18
Nov 10 Home Lost 25-16
Nov 09 Home Lost 33-12
Nov 08 Home WON 21-18
Sept 07 Home Lost 32-20
June 07 Away Lost 31-0
May 07 Away Lost 29-23

Aus v Wales in one of the most closely fought away series in 10 years is pretty irrelevant now. If Gats should be picking players on form in the last 12 months I can think of several non-welsh players who should not have started the first two tests. Fair to say he is not picking on setiment, and the likes of Heslip, BOD and Croft have had a chance without having awesome games and the backrow options chosen have deserved their chance. As has Corbs. We can all debate the odd selection but overall I can’t see how anyone can be shaking their head at what is a reasonably balanced test squad. Those moaning about it being a power team, would no doubt want O’Connell in the second row if fit and how would you have changed the (loosing) second test team to accommodate more perceived skill over brawn?

As regards Davies didn’t BOD describe his last performance in his chosen position as one of the best he’d ever seen or something?

good points scamper!

deadlydarcy – Member
Those who agree with it don’t surprise me in the least.

Meaning?

Meaning?

Over beers with an Irish friend a few months ago, I dared to suggest that BOD was losing his pace, and that despite his simply stellar career to date, his star was fading. I then opined that there were other, better centres out there in the world game today, in my opinion.

I may as well have said that his mother was a ‘working lady’ who gave away many, many free trials, given the reaction.

😉 CFH !!

and he’s basically picked Wales.

Quite. At least AA can’t blame the English if the Lions lose. 😉

I sincerely hope they don’t, which is why I’ll be cheering for Wales the Lions on Saturday.

It seems like a very well balanced team compared to the previous tests and given how the Lions pack were knocked around after the first 20 or so minutes last test surely that says you need a bit more power up front? The changes made were 50/50 as others have said and this Test selection actually seems to have a well thought out group of subs too.

As for the backs, well they haven’t really featured for either side (especially in the last test). Manu is not especially organised in defense so it doesn’t make much sense to start him- coming on in the 2nd half for impact does. Likewise with Murray. He is the 9 I would most like to see play but Phillips will not lose you the game when it is tight and physical in the first half even if he may not win it either. Murray coming on later when things have settled down makes a lot of sense too. All this talk of BOD at the breakdown is correct to an extent but then he has been one of the worst to adapt to refs interpretations and given away most penalties. Most people would agree that the hard running of Roberts should get them over the gain line more and little Jiffy has been outstanding this tour with his all round play (clearing out rucks, cutting off the wide Aus attacks coming up so quickly, offering a left footed option to clear the lines, turning over ball- lots of little subtleties which are valuable).

It isn’t necessarily an exciting, risky selection but I feel it is well balanced. The build up games showed some more exciting combinations but then these same combinations were shown up defensively which you can’t afford at this level. The selectors really can’t please everyone- lets just hope the Lions win at the weekend!

Not really too much to complain about unless you look at the nationalities of each player and have some bee in your bonnet about that 😀

Can’t argue with the fact its a team with the most welsh since 1888 or something and would have been more if our Captain was fit who some on here would begrudgingly admit has been arguably our best player over 2 tests. 😀

Think i’m on record as saying before the tour team was announced i’d hope several `unheralded’ English players would be putting their hands up for test spots – and that has certainly happened if you agree with the selections or not.

Could it be possible the best players to make up the best Test team happen to have one majority nationality? No, no, no, crazy talk! Must be the Welshman from NZ’s fault instead 😀

Over beers with an Irish friend a few months ago…

Very insightful.

🙂
😉

😆 He’s a Blackrock boy as well, DD…!