Just back in from seeing this and marvelling at the composure of the pilots. It’s a fascinating film for flight buffs.

I’ve survived a single engine bird strike on take off out of Newark at night. It’s not something I’d want to experience again.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/aero-engine-bird-strike-how-scary

Thought it was great, pacing was really good and they focussed on the right bits, recommended!

ah, good. been umming and ahing about seeing this. Think I will on basis of this.

McM, I had assumed you were piloting the flight out of Newark! Slightly crestfallen for you once I’d read the link.

Just back in from seeing this and marvelling at the composure of the pilots.

You do know they aren’t actually flying a real plane in a real crisis? Like actors…

I’m not sure whether to watch or not. I think it will annoy me.

I watched it last night, fantastic film. 9/10.

If you can’t make it to the cinema, it’s been released on download in the US now, if you fiddle about a bit with it, you can buy it from the US version of Amazon.

We plan to see this at the WE, the trailer is pretty impressive on its own.

dantsw13 – Member

I’m not sure whether to watch or not. I think it will annoy me.

What aspect of it would you think would annoy you?

According to the Pilots of Quora it’s *almost* accurate, I think some commented about the way the plane entered the water was a bit off, but even they could suspend their disbelief and enjoy it.

For a Hollywood film, it’s not over-blown, I don’t recall any Airplane style “not on my watch” moments.

The ending is a little bit, Hollywood, but I’ve not idea if it’s accurate.

Looking forward to it, chose to see Allies (excellent) last week instead but Sully will be the film for next Tuesdays cinema deal (2 tickets for €6 🙂 )

You do know they aren’t actually flying a real plane in a real crisis? Like actors…

I trust that they used the transcripts and data from the black boxes verbatim.

marvelling at the composure of the pilots.

My understanding is that use of the phrase “This is your Captain speaking, we’re all going to **** die!” is frowned upon.

My cousin used to be an airline safety manager and we spoke about the film at tbe weekend. Apparently the crash report is fascinating if rather bulky reading

I did a course on Crew resource management and the Lecturers utilised this incident , including transcripts , and said it was “almost perfect” in its execution. One lecturer was an Ex-Airline pilot and the other the Off Duty Master of the Herald of Free Enterprise.

My wife (BA pilot) doesn’t get impressed easily with aviation stuff but there are a couple of things she holds as utter beacons of complete heroism.

The Sioux City crash landing is one, because despite the fact that the plane crashed, the fact that it got to an aiport at all saved lives and is something that no one in a sim has even been able to repeat.

The other is the landing on the Hudson. She says the chances of making that landing and the aircraft’s nose not digging in a cartwheeling are tiny. The skill demonstrated by the captain in making the landing, and the leadership of both pilots throughout are both spinetingling.

Wife liked it but I found it a bit boring. Difficult to engender suspense when we know it ends successfully.

Just back in from seeing this and marvelling at the composure of the pilots.
You do know they aren’t actually flying a real plane in a real crisis? Like actors…

The pilot is jinxed, first the Apollo 13 incident, now this

Do they include this in the sound track
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcV1UpZAWAc[/video]

Also this poor guy so nearly pulled-off another Hudson water landing earlier this year..
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/05/28/wwii-hudson-river-crash-rachel-crane-lkl-nd.cnn

On this note. Has there ever been a movie about flight ba009. Quad engine failure

I knew nothing about it its before my time although it came up in an obituary of a club mate this year and I read into it. Some bloody ballsy pilots on that one.

Good bit bit on Radio 4 about it a few weeks back with Tom Hanks

Turning a 90 second incident in to a 1.5hr (whatever) film.

Apparently the inquest bit of the film was all fiction to make it more of a story….

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuxCBYAaZ9M[/video]

My problem with creating heroes from a successful outcome creates the view that if another pilot attempted emergency ditching, and killed people, it’s suddenly all his fault that people died. My time in the military taught me the fine line between a court martial and a DFC!

Sully and his fellow pilot were suddenly in a situation never trained for, and without options (crashing into the city of crashing into the big open river doesn’t really count as making a decision imho!!). Nobody had a clue as to the handling characteristics of an airliner landing into that particular piece of water. He did his best, and they all walked away. A sudden gust of wind, a log in the river, a bit of swell from a boat, and suddenly they could have been cartwheeling and sinking.

Joe, GeeTee and Dan very interesting comments.

Dan I get it was an obvious choice in the circumstances and yes luck played a part but so did skill. Heroism makes for a better movie.

bit similar to the Nimrod that ditched in the Moray Firth, all crew safe..

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12105586.Seven_safe_as_Nimrod_ditches___Crew__apos_laughing_and_joking_apos__after_captain_apos_s_skill_saves_lives/

Jambalaya – oh, I get that. It’s the American way.

Pilots are a very analytical bunch – we learn a lot from our disasters. If we had a presentation on the Hudson Incident, it would undoubtedly focus on the negative elements, and how we could improve in the future, much as we have from the Air France Rio crash.

If the poo really hits the fan, all you can do is stay calm ( he did) and hope you are lucky ( he was).

There was an Air Transat incident where a pilot glided into the Azores after running out of fuel. The glide was an amazing piece of flying skill, and he was an instant hero. Then someone investigated why they ran out of fuel – he had ignored the Airbus procedures for a fuel leak, as he mistrusted computers, and had fed all his fuel into a leaking engine/tank until there was none left!

My time in the military taught me the fine line between a court martial and a DFC!

As someone who has served in the military, I am sure you will understand that heroism does not reside in the outcome of a perilous event, it resides in a person being there for others in a perilous event.

Kcal – that Nimrod incident is a real example of good decisions under pressure. Art Stacey, the Captain, elected to ditch in the sea, even though he could see his home base under 10 miles away, as he thought the fire was so bad the wings wouldn’t make it to the runway. Subsequent investigation proved him right.

That, IMHO is a far more heroic thing to do, when your engines are still running, and you have to make a positive decision to throw it in the sea! He was also lucky the Moray Firth was unusually calm that day.

Geetee – if only!! In the modern Airforce a DFC is often the outcome for a successful risk, whereas a CM beckons if you aren’t so lucky.

I think what’s most amazing about the Hudson incident is the decision to land in the Hudson in the first place.
I strongly suspect that if you put most pilots in a simulator and gave them that sort of unexpected scenario, then the vast majority of those would try to stretch the glide to an airport.
The actual landing on the river is, to some extent, in the lap of the gods.

Geetee – if only!! In the modern Airforce a DFC is often the outcome for a successful risk, whereas a CM beckons if you aren’t so lucky.

What do the people awarding the DFC or prosecuting a CM know. They weren’t there. You were.

Sorry, I’m not being trite. I’ve not served in the military but I’ve been in a forward position once before as well as a number of other vaguely sticky situations and have learned that judgements after the fact can only ever be the priviledge of those that weren’t there. The only people who can know for sure whether you’re a hero or not are the ones that were there with you.

Of course if you’ve been CMd that rather idealistic opinion might be of scant consolation.

Geetee – I completely agree with you, but the senior military commanders are very much politicians, and love both good publicity, and a scapegoat! I made several operational decisions in a theatre of war in the full knowledge that if I messed it up I would be hung out to dry for breaking the rules, but somebody needed help so I did it. Kept my gob shut afterwards to avoid too much oversight, but basked in the warm glow of knowing I might have made a difference to guys in need on the ground.

Feel free to bask here as well Dan.

Which all leads back to my main point. There are many pilots who will have displayed amazing courage and heroism, only to have it all cruelly snatched away by circumstances outside their control, hence why I am loathe to put any Pilot on a pedestal based on a successful outcome . He did his job brilliantly and may well be one of the luckiest pilots alive, but I’m loathe to put his skill and heroism above those less lucky who did not make it.

TrekEx8 – I’m not sure if you fly, but from the position he lost both engines, the picture outside only really gave one option and I would expect at least 9/10 pilots to attempt the same landing on the Hudson.

Thing is, despite all the training, the skills, the amazing calm and control, it all comes down to luck in the end!

Take the 777 short landing at Heathrow, where the engines wouldn’t come out of flight idle (due to ice blockage of the engine oil / fuel heat exchangers, and the plane juuuuuust made it over the fence and onto the relatively smooth/flat ground at the runway apron. Here, it turns out the pilots forgot, in their necessary haste (no time to read check lists) to select the correct, ie to the procedure/checklist flap setting. However, when they re-ran the crash in the Sim, using the “correct” flap setting increased drag, and the plane crashed into the road/fence every time…………

“Which all leads back to my main point. There are many pilots who will have displayed amazing courage and heroism, only to have it all cruelly snatched away by circumstances outside their control, hence why I am loathe to put any Pilot on a pedestal based on a successful outcome . He did his job brilliantly and may well be one of the luckiest pilots alive, but I’m loathe to put his skill and heroism above those less lucky who did not make it.”

i believe the saying here is “id rather be lucky than good” and that applys to many walks of life.

Sounds a good film and I’m sure to watch it at some time. But with regards to heroism. I’m sure the pilot showed good judgment and exceptional skill in landing the plane. But to be a hero surly there has to be choice, he had no option to do anything other than what he did. First and foremost the pilot was saving his own life, absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it was an act of survival. I’m sure he had great concern for his passengers but it’s not as if he could have turned his back and walked away.

I’ve a mate who flies commercial jets (big ones) and talking to him on this subject is always enlightening, particularly the element of luck. He was / is dead against the relatively new trend of ‘hero worshipping’ pilots for exactly the reason above, that if someone did the same and luck turns out different then they’ll be blamed for not pulling it off.

Going further he said that he thinks it’s the advent of internet, rolling news, using eyewitnesses as reporters etc., that has forced the issue rather than pilots or Airline managers wanting to push them(selves) into the public eye. A long time ago, before the days of 24 hour news, he had an engine fire on take-off that caused an evacuation with the only casualty being a broken bone for someone flying off the end of the slide. After everything was done they were called into the chief’s office and basically told that if they expected a medal or a bonus they could forget it; that’s what they trained for, so that in the event of it going shit-shaped they respond properly. They’d responded properly, hence it would be duly recorded and that’d be the last of it. Which is exactly how my mate wanted it to be.

In respect of ‘flying’ commercially; also as above he says that flying is the easy bit. A bit of stress getting everything done and off on time, and a landing 8-12 hours later, and not much in between. For him the hassles all come down route where he effectively manages the crew as needed, with young, carefree flight attendants creating all sorts of issues to be dealt with. Emotional, drunkeness, criminal, etc., have all crossed his ‘desk’ at some point.

But with regards to heroism. I’m sure the pilot showed good judgment and exceptional skill in landing the plane. But to be a hero surly there has to be choice, he had no option to do anything other than what he did.

Yes. Interesting section in Clarkson’s VC documentary about some of the nominations that were rejected because of the element of self-preservation.

Max torque – I don’t know where you heard that version, but it’s BS. The Capt made a decision to change the flap setting to gain enough lift to clear the fence. Had he not done so, we would have had a 777 in the Multi Storey Carpark.

That was my understanding of the Heathrow crash. Flaps were configured for landing, lost both engines and the captain worked out he’d get closer to the runway by changing the flaps.

Just been to see the film. Absolutely superb, easily one of the best I’ve ever seen.

I’ve seen the ground radar replay and listened to the RT of the ba777 incident at Heathrow.

When declaring the may day the pilot used the wrong callsign. The reason being that the callsign was the one he used when he was last in the simulator practicing emergencies. Physcologists could have a field day analysing that.

The response from the fire crews was impressive to see.