Well that's alright then….

He backed down citing "overwhelming" UK interests. A major oil deal was being discussed at the time.

Blimey

Straw's 'back down' was regarding the prisoner transfer scheme. Megrahi was released on compassionate grounds, not transferred.

Megrahi was released by the SNP's Scottish Justice Minister. The SNP tend not to take instruction from Labour in London.

What's the story?

If anyone's got a spare 90 minutes this is worth a listen to –
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00760w8/Saturday_Play_Lockerbie_on_Trial/

Ian

That's one hell of a user name 😆

I daren't start actually start a thread at the mo, for fear of screwing up the forum screen layout 🙂

If al-Megrahi had been excluded from the prisoner transfer accord as Jack Straw originally wanted, it would indeed have been unacceptable and would have represented blatant political interference to appease New Labour's political masters – the Americans.

But as Higs points out, al-Megrahi was not returned to Libya under the prisoner transfer accord – so what's your problem Slapper ?

I think i remember Al-magrahi (maybe a patsy) being handed over by the Libyans to ease their sanctions in the first place. The Scottish got it wrong releasing a mass murderer (the biggest Britain has ever had incarcerated). It shows ignorance where foreign policy is concerned and a good argument why devolution is balls up. The U.K. looked foolish for this action.

ev – Member
…The U.K. looked foolish for this action.

One of the points of devolution is that the Scottish government takes responsibility for its designated areas of power.

The UK can only look foolish to those people who confuse England with the entire UK. I suspect the diplomats of the various countries who are represented here are a bit more sophisticated than that.

Scotland is not a subject colony of the UK, it is one of the constituent kingdoms with its own legal system. The prisoner was imprisoned and released under Scots law.

Scotland released a mass murderer on compassionate grounds, as medical professionals advised the justice secretary that Mr Megrahi had around 3 months to live. If he wasn't in the final stages of a terminal illness, he would still be behind bars.

Other countries, and their leaders, may struggle to grasp the distinction between justice and vengeance, weakness and compassion; I am proud to live in Scotland where we have placed compassion before commerce.

BTW – if you think terrorists get a soft touch in Scotland a la Robert Mueller, you may want to consider that the last terrorist who attempted to detonate a bomb in Scotland found himself lying on the floor of Glasgow airport, on fire, and having the shit kicked out of him…

Straw's 'back down' was regarding the prisoner transfer scheme. Megrahi was released on compassionate grounds, not transferred.

Megrahi was released by the SNP's Scottish Justice Minister. The SNP tend not to take instruction from Labour in London.

What's the story?

Aparently the Americons told the SNP that they'd rather he was released on compassionate grounds instead of the impending prisoner transfer scheme (which the UK government were going to press for due to the trade concessions they wanted). The SNP did that then everyone went ape about it.

"Scotland is not a subject colony of the UK, it is one of the constituent kingdoms with its own legal system. The prisoner was imprisoned and released under Scots law."

True, but the long and short of it is, they released someone who should not have been. Most of the World will see this as the the U.K's/G.B's/England/Scotland's stance.

One of the points of devolution is that the Scottish government takes responsibility for its designated areas of power.

But wasn't the legal system/process of England & Wales separate to that Scotland before devolution ? Did the Home Office have responsibility for such matters before devolution ?

.

The U.K. looked foolish for this action.

Does the United States look foolish because individuals states apply their laws separately, eg. some states have the death sentence, and some don't ?

True, but the long and short of it is, they released someone who should not have been.

lev – that's your opinion but re-read ditch_jockey's post. If he wasn't terminally ill he wouldn't have been released. As he is, under Scots Law, he was released on compassionate grounds.

Ernie – I think pre devolution it would have been the Scottish office and the secretary of state ( or is it minister) for scotland who would have made the decision.

I think – but am not sure that once the conditions for compassionate release are met then the prisoner must be released. The conditions being terminally ill and death imminent ( which is accepted as being 3 months) and no chance of reoffending.

I am proud that Scotland has shown that compassion is greater than vengeance. Turn the other cheek not and eye for an eye.

But as Higs points out, al-Megrahi was not returned to Libya under the prisoner transfer accord – so what's your problem Slapper ?

Ernie – who said there's a problem

The only issue is that the waters have been muddied by stories of trade deals. The law may be an ass but even the asses that make / oversee the law should be able to assess each individual on a case by case basis?

Anyone who believes that the potential release of someone with this much political sensitivity did not get discussed and agreed at the highest level, regardless of quasi-judicial independence is naive beyond belief.

Cyclops and Obama would have had to sanction this release, but both had to be able to keep their hands clean, hence the blame all goes on the SNP.

Welcome to the world of Realpolitik

Ernie – who said there's a problem

I did 8)

Obviously you've got some sort of problem ….. or did you post this thread to express your support for Straw's alleged position ? 😯

Zulu – I am afraid its you who does not understand the SNP. No way was the SNP minister waiting on being told he could do this from anywhere else. self determination

Yes TJ – completely independent, no such thing as Oil, never any interference in judicial decisions… Always on script, nyet comrade! 🙄

Wonder when Kenny will be awarded his peerage?

I'm still LOLing at the idea of the SNP and Labour working on some behind-the-scenes deal.

the uk/usa foreign policy has been dictated by our hunger for oil for at least the last 30 years every war we send men to die in has been for the black stuff, falklands, kuwait, iraq and indirectly- afgahnistan;
we prop up israel to keep influence in the region make deals with libia, sanction iran, bribe the saudis….
its how we keep the country in fuel and we are utterly dependent on it to work, play, get our food, make plastic,fertilizer etc etc etc
lockerbie was a disaster partly of our own making and megrhis 'conviction' and release another step on a path we will continue to tread until we probably start another world war over the last few drops.

and fwiw i think megrhis return home to die is an (incedental) act of humanity in a our very inhumane quest for resources thats only getting the headlines because its the political silly season

Scotland released a mass murderer on compassionate grounds

Allowable in Scottish lawe, but wrong to do so. He's not incarcerated for vengeance, it's for punishment.

The waters are considerably muddied by his dubious culpability, but that's a seperate issue which should be addressed through due legal process, not sidestepped by use of "compassion".

Nice, pretty spot-on post kimbers :thumbs up:

druidh – Member

I'm still LOLing at the idea of the SNP and Labour working on some behind-the-scenes deal.

Indeed. One of the more ludicrous ideas spouted on here. If London Labour said white, SNP would say black.

Sounds like a lot of the protesters are in the same boat as the terrorists – don't understand the meaning of the concept of compassion.

The fact that it would be a poke in the eye for "Cyclops" would be a bonus not the main motivating factor.

So, who's up for a cycling holiday in Libya? I suspect we'd get a welcome 🙂

i think hora and tj are being a bit naive
believing political soapboxing over the realities of governing a kind of semi autonomous state

So, who's up for a cycling holiday in Libya? I suspect we'd get a welcome

As a matter of fact everyone is welcome here, i have never had any issues on that front but as for cycling here, no way, Libya has the second highest number of RTAs in Africa,they only report so called serious injuries and they are classed as as those who do not walk again !!! it only has 6.5 Million people and the roads are a nightmare, offroad is another thing but you would struggle to get the "desert passes" needed to get to the decent spots. I have tried and unless your company has business down there you have no chance. My mate gets some good riding in but my company has no rights there. I brought over a spin cycle to train on here it is just not worth the risk of going on the roads here in Tripoli.

On a side note a lot of Ex Pats are sending CVs to BP as it is rumoured they are about to announce a new project … Joking

Oh well, looks like it was about oil and not about the compassion after all. Or rather it was about politicians being highly compassionate about various bank balances. I am stunned really. There was me thinking it would never be about oil surely?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6140801/Jack-Straw-admits-Lockerbie-bombers-release-was-linked-to-oil.html

But then yes, as John Pilger points out, things are never that straight forward, always murky

http://original.antiwar.com/pilger/2009/09/03/lockerbie-megrahi-was-framed/

Now I don't want to be ghoulish about this but anyone reckon he'll still be alive in three months time?