All of which are activities using just human power.

Well I imagine people want to use it for the same reasons non-assisted riders do, route tracking and comparison with previous performance and the social aspect of it. Strava isn’t *just* about the leaderboards.

The very fact that people are using Strava with eBikes suggests that they want to use the features it offers.

I’d much rather there was a category for them to allow all the same benefits rather than forcing them private, but then maybe another app could fill that need, but then how wants to use two apps to do the same thing…

Lets be honest, the only reason people are grumpy about it is the pollution of the data from human only riding, and feeling that they’ve been cheated of something*, if there was a category then the problem goes away.

*internet-ego-points mostly

poah – Member
this thread is a waste of the internet

And yet here you are?

poah – Member
this thread is I’m a waste of the internet

FTFY. Agreed.

All of which are activities using just human power.

Well not really. There are plenty of descent segments where you don’t need to put in any power at all. Should bikes be banned? Should you have to declare what section of rim you’re using? Not entirely sure why you’re so het up about it?

aracer – Member

All of which are activities using just human power.
True – I hadn’t noticed that

Apologies if I gave a different impression, but I don’t have a problem with that – the solution to the current situation of there being no category isn’t to allow them to use the bicycle category though!

I should probably admit that I used to categorise my kayaking as “swim”, because for some reason Strava resisted having a canoeing/kayaking category for a long time. That might have upset the swimmers, though I suspect most of them weren’t doing 10km swims.

There is also an XC skiing category where you could get a KOM in an aero tuck, and the type of wax and air temperature would be crucial (I have a couple of auto-generated XC skiing KOMs, though they’re on climbs 😉 ). Or worse yet a windsurfing category, where tailwinds really come into their own. Nothing that uses a motor of any type though.

If you set downhill KOMs on an e-bike, good luck to you, I won’t be complaining.

the solution to the current situation of there being no category isn’t to allow them to use the bicycle category though!

I guess that’s where we we differ, as I noted earlier it IS against he Strava T+Cs, you’re supposed to make them private or list it as ‘other -workout’.

The only point I was trying to make is that since there is no eBike category on it’s own, and I think the social and comparatve benefits of listing them publically outweighs the drawbacks, I personally don’t mind people logging them under the bike category, especially if clear from username, so under ‘Amedias T+C’ it’s ok! 😀

Ideally of course I’d prefer a category or a filter, a filter option on the board would be just as good, if not better, all it would need is a flag on the ‘gear’ section when you add a bike to say it’s assisted, that way you could choose to see the results in the leaderboard or not, but still have them in the same category.

There are a few eBike riders around here (I’m not one of them BTW), and I actually find it quite interesting seeing the results on some local segments, seeing how in some areas it’s virtually no benefit at all to the overall time, but in others seeing what is achievable up a climb with assist, on some segments its down to traction and skill rather than power.

last year at the Tegernsee Mountain Bike Festival they had an E-bike race catergory.

a mate travelled down there extra to shout abuse at them! 😀

I’m too slow up the climbs to worry about e-bikes taking my non-existent KOMs and I’m guessing that the electric assist ain’t going to make a massive on the difference on the DH’s so my KOM’s are safe, for now 🙂

The whole KOM on strava is pointless anyway. I have met groups on the trails with full DH bikes on what are nice parts of a ride. Chatting to them I asked why the DH bikes, and their answer was that they wil KOM chasing so pushing up and racing down on big bikes as they said they couldnt go that fast on trail bikes even though they accepted they were hugely over biked for the trail.

So it’s pointless because other people care more about it than you?

Segment – ‘Innerleithen Climb’ has Sylvain Guintoli (WSB Champ I’m assuming?) on KOM with ‘Adrenalinatv.co.uk’.

ebike company

IIRC he’s near the top on a lot of the climbs at Degla too, although not ridiculously faster than others.

EDIT – he’s KoM on the long open climb near the start…

SEGMENT

Don’t feel so bad for being 48 seconds behind him now!

njee20 – Member

I’m a dick

FTFY. Agreed.

I assume that everyone who is faster than me on Strava is either on drugs or has a dodgy phone. After all, what other explanation could there be for them beating an overweight 48 year old !

I don’t understand why e-bikes riders need to be able to upload their rides publicly to Strava any more than motor bike riders do. What exactly is wrong with the current solution of not allowing vehicles which don’t meet the criteria? If you want to use Strava, ride something human powered, it’s quite simple.

Agreed 100% Its no different than using a motorbike imo.

Really?

You still have to pedal, just not as hard in order to go at a given speed. I don’t understand the frothing from people about them. I agree that having a KOM on an ebike is hollow, and I’d flag a ride if I saw that, but don’t get the haterz otherwise. It opens cycling to people who otherwise wouldn’t/couldn’t ride.

Well they won’t be getting any real KOMs on those will they? I presume it’s just the KODs you’re actually dismissing here – e-bikes only become an issue on uphill ones.

The thing is, there are other social media apps for sharing rides etc. – why don’t the e-bikers use those? Presumably because Strava is massively more popular – and why is it massively more popular, what is its USP?

I fundamentally disagree with the assertion that KOMs and leaderboards are pointless – such things are generally suggested by people who can’t comprehend the speed of the people at the top. I’ve not seen a single segment around here (until now) where there seemed anything dodgy about the people or the times at the top. Let the e-bikers in (because of the social benefit of a tiny number of them joining in?) and all that is spoiled.

If somebody beats you on a segment because they’re fitter and faster, you go out and train harder. If somebody beats you on a segment because they had a massive tailwind, you wait for the next day with a strong wind. If somebody beats you on a segment because they’re riding an e-bike…

Well look at that
https://www.strava.com/activities/206599662/analysis/133/213
compared to
https://www.strava.com/activities/57662772/analysis/207/357
spot the difference…

Not sure I understand – the only thing I dislike is them using Strava and taking KOMs off people who’ve just used their legs – what else do you think we’re complaining about?

Agreed 100% Its no different than using a motorbike imo.

They’re really not, you still have to pedal, and unless they’ve been chipped most of them cut out the assist after a certain speed or power output (eg: Scott model I tried the other week cuts the assist at 16mph, and has variable level of assist from virtually nothing to ‘give me Hoy legs’) so it really is nothing like a motorbike in the twist-go sense.

In fact once the assist cuts out they are bloody awkward heavy lumps to keep moving, stick just under the cut-off in the sweet spot though and it’s like having extra oomph in your legs, but they don’t give you full on motorised locomotion.

So the level of assist can give you legs like Chris Hoy, their cut out speed can be higher than even Hoy could manage on a climb and they can be chipped so that they don’t cut out at all (which is totally legal if you’re riding them off-road – TBH I’m not sure why e-bikes sold for off road use should be limited).

Is a 50cc scooter more similar in performance to an e-bike or a WSB? Where do you draw the line – only e-bikes with a 15mph cutoff (road legal), e-bikes with a higher cutoff, chipped e-bikes, electric motorbikes…

If you let them join in with bicycles on Strava, then you end up with the situation where there’s only one way to take a KOM on lots of climbs.

Not sure I understand – the only thing I dislike is them using Strava and taking KOMs off people who’ve just used their legs – what else do you think we’re complaining about?

You’re saying that you don’t want them to use Strava full stop and they should use other platforms. They can use Strava for all I care, but I’ll flag a dubious looking ride.

You seem to be using “Strava” synonymously for “leaderboards thereon”. So yes, you let them “join in” on Strava, just not to top the leaderboards.

Is a 50cc scooter more similar in performance to an e-bike

Not really no, because on the eBike you still have to pedal, stop pedalling and you roll to a stop just as quickly as on a normal unassisted bike (slower uphill as they weigh loads).

They’re not like scooters or motorbikes where you can still power them with an independent throttle, well certainly none of the ones I’ve tried or seen.

The best analogy I can come up with for those of you that haven’t tried one, is it feels like having some extra ooomph in your legs, the amount of ooomph is dependent on the model and/or settings.

Riding on round town I went no faster than I would on my normal bike, but accelerating from a standstill got me there quicker, and I put a bit less effort in to get there.

Offroad I think would be a bit different as you’d be able to make easier progress on climbs than normal, and probably make use of the assist to get some higher than expected speeds, but you still need to pedal, it’s not a case of simply zipping up at 16mph without doing anything. Downhill it would make no difference, and along the flat it would only be helpful in really sludgy draggy conditions, on a normal flat fire-road for example you’d go no faster, but you’d put in less effort to maintain your speed.

I seem to have unwittingly taken on the ‘eBike advocate’ role on this thread when I’m far from it in real life.

I do want to go back and borrow one of the local demo ones for some offroad testing, I think it’d be fun, and yes I’ll be Strava-ing it to compare to my normal rides, i’ll mark it private of course 😉

You seem to be using “Strava” synonymously for “leaderboards thereon”. So yes, you let them “join in” on Strava, just not to top the leaderboards.

^ this, all it would need is a tickbox on the bike options to say assisted, and a filter on the boards and all the problems go away and people still get to join in on their eBikes, everyone wins 😀

The only way to use Strava without appearing on the leaderboards is to go private AFAIK – quite happy for them to do that. So I’m not at all against them using Strava if that’s what you’re suggesting. I am against them using Strava in any way which results in them appearing on the leaderboards so I think we agree on that too. The trouble is they only get the apparent benefits they want from Strava by their rides being public and on the leaderboards – the leaderboards are synonymous with Strava because that’s the way people use it, and when they talk about using Strava they’re talking about logging their rides publicly.

I’ve already said I’m more than happy for them to be on there as long as they don’t pollute the non-assisted leaderboards. You seem to be suggesting that in the absence of such a feature they should be allowed on anyway, which is where you differ from njee and me. It would be great to have such a feature, but given it took years for them to even add kayaking as a category (which was a much simpler change) I wouldn’t hold your breath.

You can presumably just soft pedal though and not put any real effort in – the bike is just sensing the pedals turning, it doesn’t have a built in power meter! Even if you do have to put some effort in, that doesn’t negate the problem that the times set aren’t purely human powered, and given there is a continuum of assistance the question of where you draw the line remains. Even a road legal one will do 15mph on the flat with little to no effort, a scooter 31mph, a WSB…

This is the reason I don’t use Strava.

(The fact I’d be 10,432nd on average has nowt to do with it. Obviously).