ah bless meat eaters get all upset about animal welfare. Obviosly not so upset that you will stop killing them though.
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Stop the first US-style cow factory farm being built in the UK
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Posted 1 year ago #
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The insistence on calling the creatures "battery cows" when they are of course, nothing of the sort,
What would you call thousands of cows in the same building?
They run on grass/feed.
Posted 1 year ago # -
ah bless meat eaters get all upset about animal welfare
Not all of us. I only looked at this thread to see why it had so many replies.
Obviosly not so upset that you will stop killing them though.
Last animal I killed was a lizard. (Didn't eat it)
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ah, glad to see Junkyard has finally made an appearance on this one.
I'll just add my tuppence to his wise words.
The debate goes something like: are cattle better off reared in fields or big sheds?
Being as how we don't actually need to consume animals or animal products the logical option I would add to this is that cows are better off not being reared at all.
Posted 1 year ago # -
tend to leave these debates to be honest I do find it odd how sentimental meat eaters get yet not enough to stop killing it as if that bit is not the cruelest part of the industry
Also like the way they they will eat a cow but not a horse never really understood that either
For the record my view is that eating meat per se is not necessarily cruel if you are alion for example- IMHO once you industralise it / farm it it is inherently cruelPosted 1 year ago # -
i'd eat a horse! in fact i'd much prefer to eat a horse than a cow.... horses look tasty. cow meat never excites me.
as for chickens.... kill em all, cover them in periperi and force feed me until either chicken are wiped out or i am. evil beady-eyed pecky beasts.
i'd eat cat and dog too, in fact... i'd probably eat human if i was in a situation that required it. throw on some reggae reggae sauce and job done!
Posted 1 year ago # -
The insistence on calling the creatures "battery cows" when they are of course, nothing of the sort,
Could you define what a battery cow is then please and state how these ones are different?
Anyone who has worked on a farm with cattle can tell you that they certainly appear happier when allowed outside, these zero grazing systems no doubt keep the animals healthier in the physical sense though.
Posted 1 year ago # -
No, I am not a lion, which is a pure carnivore. I am a human, which is an omnivore. There's quite a difference in the teeth from vegetarian species you see
Posted 1 year ago # -
LHS - Member
Muppet.
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LHS - Member
Do you really need to stoop to name calling?
Ah, irony.
What a great thread, I missed it first time around.
The problem, as I see it, is that LHS has an image in his (I assume) head of 'battery farmed' cows, flank to flank with no space for a good moo. Pumped full of drugs and generally given a daily kicking, etc. He's arguing against this and, to be fair, I don't blame him, I'd argue against something like that as well.
However. Far as I can tell, that image has no bearing in reality. EU legislation prohibits a lot of the practices that would be "mistreatment"; also, as others have said, routinely filling them full of antibiotics would be pointless and a waste of money, and they still have space to move around.
What it boils down to, then, is "cows being kept in buildings, how cruel." Now, I've no idea what effect a lack of sunlight would have on your average bovine (assuming no-one's invented windows yet), whether they'd be ill or distressed, or whether they wouldn't give a toss either way. It may be cruel, it may not be, but I'd certainly want to find out for sure before leaping to conclusions based on nothing more than "how would you like it" - I'm not a cow so I'm in no position to judge.
If this thread has served any positive purpose, it's that I'd now like to know more about what's actually being proposed (as opposed to the Daily Mail-esque 'cow car park' headline).
Posted 1 year ago # -
Junkyard > I don't agree that farming is "inherently" cruel. I'm sure some are and some aren't.
Ultimately though, it's supply and demand - will people pay extra for 'ethical' farming methods that are inherently more expensive than their mass-produced variants? Sadly, it'd seem not to be the case, though I suspect that people might be more convinced with a bit of advertising and education (does anyone still by battery eggs, outside of the underclasses that can't afford anything else?) The problem then is that you get the PETA "meat is murder" nutcase brigade frothing about the poor ikkle baa-lambs and it undermines the entire argument.
Posted 1 year ago # -
MMMMMMM.....poor ikkle baa-lamb....
Posted 1 year ago # -
Far as I can tell, that image has no bearing in reality
Source?
Posted 1 year ago # -
mint for lamb
apple for pork
red wine for cow?Posted 1 year ago # -
What's with all this increase food production to feed the chubbies?
The solution is simple? Eat less and reduce human population or let them starve. No need all this high tech shite to grow cows.
Simple.
Posted 1 year ago # -
(assuming no-one's invented windows yet)
I'm a battery cow, and Windows 7 was my idea.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't agree that farming is "inherently" cruel. I'm sure some are and some aren't.
I think you can have less cruel or more cruel but not cruelty free. remember all domesticated animals were once free and are now no longer wild and are "imprisoned " in fields, selectivelty bred - often by artificial means these days-, can have incredibly short life spans, or immensly hard workingones - milk cattle who have vast quantities of medicines to keep disease down due to over work /clos eproximity to each other, and exist simply to be killed to be eaten. This is some way away from the zebra or Buffalo roaming the plains as in the wild. I dont think there is some sort of moral good being done to the animals by farming and cant really see how you could - of course some is mor ecruel than others and you can either accept this to eat meat or not as is your opwn moral choice.
there would be more veggies if we made everyone grow their own cruelty free meat though as a lot f meat eaters would see the cruelty at the point of the kill I suspect - perhaps we should make them collect live chickens froma battery farm ? to see what the ocst of cheap meat is?Posted 1 year ago # -
Chewkw making the most sense so far.
i want everyone to think long and hard about that*.
we can't feed 7billion people with cows that look like this:
eat less meat, and stop having so many kids.
(*no offence meant Chewie, your posts are often baffling, entertaining, but baffling)
Posted 1 year ago # -
Chewkw making the most sense so far.
Agreed, people need to be educated that eating there Tesco value steak for dinner every night is not sustainable and it the root cause of the problem.
Posted 1 year ago # -
'root cause of the problem'
nothing to do with 7billion people then? - actually, i've just thought about this, and you're probably right, our demand for cheap meat/food has a lot to answer for.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Far as I can tell, that image has no bearing in reality
Source?The countryfle programme that had the USA super dairy with the UK dairy farmer on it, who was in the process of closing his dairy farm down, saying how happy the coos looked??
Posted 1 year ago # -
According to a 2006 report by the Livestock, Environment And Development Initiative, the livestock industry is one of the largest contributors to environmental degradation worldwide, and modern practices of raising animals for food contributes on a "massive scale" to air and water pollution, land degradation, climate change, and loss of biodiversity. The initiative concluded that "the livestock sector emerges as one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global."[1] In 2006 FAO estimated that meat industry contributes 18% of all emissions of greenhouse gasses. This figure was challenged in 2009 by two World-Watch researchers who estimated a 51% minimum,[2] however this paper has not been peer reviewed.[3]
Animals fed on grain need more water than grain crops.[4] In tracking food animal production from the feed through to the dinner table, the inefficiencies of meat, milk and egg production range from a 4:1 energy input to protein output ratio up to 54:1.[4] The result is that producing animal-based food is typically much less efficient than the harvesting of grains, vegetables, legumes, seeds and fruits for direct human consumption.[4]
Relatedly, the production and consumption of meat and other animal products is associated with the clearing of rainforests, resource depletion, air and water pollution, land and economic inefficiency, species extinction, and other environmental harms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_effects_of_meat_production
The use of water is also huge for meat production compared to vegetables by a factor of about 200-300 times more.Posted 1 year ago # -
LHS >
Source?
Good question - what's your source?
I'm basing that opinion on what other people have said - that a large part of what you've described is inherently illegal in the UK by EU law. Even if I'm wrong doesn't automatically mean you're right - it then falls into the category of "we don't know" unless you can prove otherwise. Which, so far, you've systematically failed to do; you've made assumptions and then shouted down anyone who's questioned you.
Junkyard >
there would be more veggies if we made everyone grow their own cruelty free meat though
Did I fail to mention I've been veggie for almost 20 years? Fancy that. (-:
Posted 1 year ago # -
The countryfle programme that had the USA super dairy with the UK dairy farmer on it, who was in the process of closing his dairy farm down, saying how happy the coos looked??
Healthy maybe, not sure about happy from what I recall of the programme.
If you shut a cow in a shed for a few months over winter then let it out in spring its fairly easy to tell what they prefer.Posted 1 year ago # -
Oh, and,
I was born and raised on a dairy farm, we shut up shop when I was fairly young but my folks have been farmers for generations. My ancestors used to milk diplodocii. Probably.
Posted 1 year ago # -
If you shut a cow in a shed for a few months over winter then let it out in spring its fairly easy to tell what they prefer.
You could make the same argument if you shut a cow outside for a few months over winter, unless your preference was for pre-frozen beef.
Posted 1 year ago # -
And actually,
Can you tell? Do you know this for a fact, or have you made it up? (Not saying you're wrong per sé, I ask merely for information)
Posted 1 year ago # -
You could make the same argument if you shut a cow outside for a few months over winter, unless your preference was for pre-frozen beef.
Not sure never tried it, a well fed cow can easily withstand any temperatures the majority of the UK can throw at them, the hard part is keeping them well fed, as long as they are ruminating they will be warm enough.
Can you tell? Do you know this for a fact, or have you made it up?
My experience is with beef cattle, but they certainly look happier running about and kicking up a storm when you let them out in the spring, obviously its hard to measure.
Posted 1 year ago # -
remember all domesticated animals were once free and are now no longer wild and are "imprisoned "in fields”
Ah... lament the likes of the Whitley Large Ox roaming the globe, unhindered by the dastardly scheming of mankind...
Junkyard, the idea of all domesticated animals having once been free is laughably absurd. In fact, the reverse is closer to the case. Domesticated animals exist almost entirely through complex relations with man. If it weren't for these domesticated animals simply wouldn't exist. Moreover, they never would have existed. Domesticated animals exist precisely because they have been valued and thus bred to provide certain characteristics that are valued to humans, they simply do not exist in the wild.
Ok, fairly pointless, but it does undermine the credibility of your other (possibly more valid and interesting) arguments when you make such ridiculous claims.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've never seen a cow smile, in fact aren't they supposed to be expressionless!? Certainly don't see how one farmer can be the judge!!
Now if I was a cow and I was given the opportunity of being kept indoors all my life in artificial light, being fed high yield feed so I can be milked 3 times a day only to deveop mastitis and either being pumped full of anti-biotics or being prematurely killed due to it...I'm not sure i would accept. Would you?
Posted 1 year ago # -
well i see your point that we took animals and bred them to create the breeds we have now - Did I not also make that point- albeit somewhat badly? I noted that
remember all domesticated animals were once free and are now no longer wild and are "imprisoned " in fields, selectivelty bred - often by artificial means these days
I suppose I should have said ancestors from which the domesticated animals came from . However it is a bit of a mouthful but would have made the point clearer. I am sure you knew that was what I was getting at anyway but hey ho have an stw pedant point on me
Yes the animals we have today would not exist if we did not farm how could anyone argue differently?Posted 1 year ago # -
Posted 1 year ago # -
Now if I was a cow and I was given the opportunity of being kept indoors all my life in artificial light, being fed high yield feed so I can be milked 3 times a day only to deveop mastitis and either being pumped full of anti-biotics or being prematurely killed due to it...I'm not sure i would accept. Would you?
A) you're not a cow so how "you" would feel is baseless, and
B) I'm still waiting for you to cite any proof at all that any of these things actually happen (or are being proposed) in the UK.
If I were a cow, I wouldn't like being painted green and have coconuts hurled at me. See how easy that line of argument is? Quick, get a petition up to stop the spread of green bovine coconutting!!
Posted 1 year ago # -
what we should do is kill off all the tasty meaty animals in one enormous barbecue and invite the world to come and have a spare rib, reduce methane emissions (major greenhouse gas)at the same time from ruminants bottoms and then all become veggie (and wear activated carbon filtered pants otherwise methane emission will increase again)
sorted!
Posted 1 year ago # -
If I were a cow, I wouldn't like being painted green and have coconuts hurled at me. See how easy that line of argument is? Quick, get a petition up to stop the spread of green bovine coconutting!!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Quick, get a petition up to stop the spread of green bovine coconutting!!
nooooo it's too late
Posted 1 year ago #
Topic Closed
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