Cows do like being outside and lying on grass, fact. So do I.

Not when it’s -11 or peeing down with rain on 3 feet of deep mud and getting soft hooves and foot rot!

Throwing these exaggerated images around and calling people “idiots” and “cruel” and generally insulting their intelligance isn’t going to win you any arguments though.

if the cap fits….

However the problem in the world with farming is driving down costs and maximising profits. So get your milk from your local farm and your food from local suppliers whom you know and have chatted to about their farming practices and then you can procrastinate all you like. I wonder how many people on here buy non-UK meat such as the welfare non-friendly Dutch Bacon as its cheaper! 👿

We in the UK have some of the best welfare standards in the World – because We are an animal loving nation – perhaps we should look abroad first at bad practices!!!

or

is it really that hard to understand?

If people are happy to pay 200% more for their milk and dairy (and not buy foreign imports) than perhaps it would allow farmers to reduce the milk yield required from their cows to make a profit?

Due to the strength & predatory actions of the supermarkets I fear this would not actually have too much of an impact. The supermarket buyers know exactly how much it costs a farmer to produce his products and hammer the wholesale price down to the lowest possible margins.

A increase in shelf price may give the farmer a increased margin but ultimately it would just be a bigger win for the supermarkets. As can be seen over the last 10 years.

Retail price of milk, Who gets what…
1999/2000
40.6p per litre
retailer 7.9p
processor 14.9p
farmer 17.8p

2009/2010
65.1p per litre
retailer 22.4p
processor 18.9p
farmer 23.8p

So get your milk from your local farm and your food from local suppliers whom you know and have chatted to about their farming practices

here here

We in the UK have some of the best welfare standards in the World – because We are an animal loving nation – perhaps we should look abroad first at bad practices!!!

And not inherit them!

LHS

It’s often more like this

+1 Uplink – Fair point Phil – My thoughts really – the retailer just get fatter!

Not for that many weeks of the year and its still better.

LHS – I give up. You’re not doing yourself any favours and are obviously too obsessed with your own point of view to accept any other argument.

I think you should be aiming your rants towards the general public who are, at the end of the day, the driving force behind any of these enterprises. The call for cheap food is very strong.

I signed it.

We in the UK think we have some of the best welfare standards in the World – because We think we are an animal loving nation

FTFY.

Whereas the reality is most of us will eat owt, as long as it’s cheap.

I dunno. People willingly pack themselves into crowded commuter trains, where diseases spread very easily indeed, or sit in huge traffic jams breathing in carcinogenic fumes, yet worry about the poor ickle cowsy-wowsies.

🙄

You’re not doing yourself any favours and are obviously too obsessed with your own point of view to accept any other argument

When it comes to animal welfare I don’t think there really is an argument is there?

Its not solely the public that needs re-educating, the government and EU can provide legislation against this sort of thing. But money will always win the day!

Whereas the reality is most of us will eat owt, as long as it’s cheap.

True. I do stand by my statement about UK welfare standards though !

LHS you are sounding a bit like the chap on last year Sports Colostrum post!

LHS

Top tip: go work on a farm for a year so you are a little better informed.. Im impressed by your zeal but you are woefully ill in-formed as to the realities of dairy farming. I think a little experience in the real World of modern agriculture would do you the power of good..

Before you ask I spent 5 yrs working in farming & in that time I covered most of the bases; from goats to dairy to sheep to beef to poultry to arable..

LHS

Top tip: go work on a farm for a year so you are a little better informed

I don’t need to thanks. Every day I walk my dog past vast fields of cows that are eating nice healthy grass and source my meat from the local butcher who uses said cows and the local dairy who sources milk from said cows.

If I walked past a concrete multi-story car park jam packed full of cows who never saw daylight I would make sure I would not be sourcing my food from there!

Its really that simple.

in that time I covered most of the bases; from goats to dairy to sheep to beef to poultry

How you spend your personal time should be private!!

I think I’m wasting my time. I’m off to see some animals! 🙄

on last year Sports Colostrum post

Coincidently I was thinking about that earlier as I was reading an article on a possible link between colostrum & bone marrow disease (in calves).

I decided not to drag it out of the depths of past threads. 🙂

I don’t need to thanks. Every day I walk my dog past vast fields of cows that are eating nice healthy grass and source my meat from the local butcher who uses said cows and the local dairy who sources milk from said cows.

Im wondering what else you walk past everyday that you are an expert on..(this bloke sounds perfect for this place!)

🙄

Seriously is this a troll now?

Every day I walk my dog past vast fields of cows that are eating nice healthy grass

Where is it you live again LHS?

Cows are not humans. Seems an obvious point I know, but I don’t think the tendency to anthromoporphise the creatures is a great help, frankly.

It’s very hard to tell which the cows prefer. They don’t have very expressive faces, do they? In fact, they look exactly the same in all three environments.

AFAIA, animals express their “moods” through different behaviours, none of which seem to obtain insofar as their accommodation and feed is concerned, from the cows…

There they are, placidly standing or sitting – munching away – producing calves and milk.

Munch munch. Munch munch.

I don’t think LHS can get his head round the argument unless he thinks about what he would do if he was a cow though.

I’d stay indoors, but I’d want a play station.

It’s very hard to tell which the cows prefer. They don’t have very expressive faces, do they? In fact, they look exactly the same in all three environments.

I’m guessing you could rig some cows up to test blood pressure, heart rate or whatever – you might find they’re happier all close together with the rest of the herd in a secure, predator-free environment than they are out in a field. No idea.

And LHS, please: it’s “hear hear”, not “here here”.

Repack, do you not like to know where your food comes from? Do you just blindly assume that its coming from good sources? More fool you.

Quick question for you all in support of this.

Would you prefer to eat meat and drink milk from organic sources where the cows are free to roam in fields and eat grass, or from the concrete car parks?

I used to own a cow, it was called “Lucky” the one on the left 😉

A orphan from a farm I used to work on, was the nuttiest thing I ever owned!

Tame cows have to be the most silly & dangerous things on a farm!

Lived a happy long life mind & yes I am with LHS, Cows should be in fields.

Repack, do you not like to know where your food comes from? Do you just blindly assume that its coming from good sources? More fool you.

must be a bugger when you eat out LHS, what with having to get all the provenance for the food etc before you even order

Would you prefer to eat meat and drink milk from organic sources where the cows are free to roam in fields and eat grass, or from the concrete car parks?

I really have no preference as long as it tastes good

Would you prefer to eat meat and drink milk from organic sources where the cows are free to roam in fields and eat grass, or from the concrete car parks?

I didn’t realise they were keeping cows in car parks as well! Seems a bit odd.

But anyway, if it’s no different as far as the cows are concerned (and that does seem to be the case), then as long as the meat and milk tastes good and contains all the proper nutrients, contented cows, contented me.

I really don’t care which…

Why should I?

must be a bugger when you eat out LHS

Not particularly, most of the pubs and restaurants will (in most cases proudly) say where they source there produce from. In fact one of my favourite pubs (about 6 miles away) sources its beef from the farm next to my house. The same can be said for fish too.

Makes the mind boggle that when I am in the UK its all Alaskan Salmon, and when in the US its Scottish Salmon!

Why should I?

I really have no preference as long as it tastes good

Say’s it all really. Its people like you who are driving poor practice 🙁

Why should I?

If you don’t care about animal welfare and sustainable farming then you shouldn’t!

Say’s it all really. Its people like you who are driving poor practice

I don’t think it’s poor practice, I thought you realised?

I think we should let this thread drop off the end. LHS clearly isn’t interested in sensible debate, rather advertising this petition.

LHS, any reason why you won’t give me a clue where you live? I won’t stalk you I promise! If I were more cynical I’d think you were a NIMBY with no real care about animal welfare.

Prove me wrong. Tell me where you are in relation to the site and engage in debate over the treatment of the animals or STFU.

I don’t live anywhere near the proposed site.

or STFU

Elegant! Is that swear filter avoidance

If you can’t contribute to the debate without the need for swearing then perhaps you should move on!

LHS

I probably, no actually Ill change that, I DO know more about how my food is farmed & where it comes from than you. How do I know that? From experience, from working within the industry you have happily admitted the closest you have ever got to is walking through a field.

I DO know more about how my food is farmed & where it comes from than you

Maybe you’re too close to the money side of things. It can blinker your opinion. You just see the animals as a commodity don’t you?