I freely admit this to be a bit of a basic question but I’m just back from my first proper* uplift session in high mountains, Ax-les-Thermes in the Pyrenees, and I want to get my forks set up better as the only part of me that’s really hurting during and after riding is my hands and arms.

I’m on a Bird Aeris Mk1 with X-Fusion Sweep HLR 160s, cockpit is Easton Haven alu 35 with WTC Fat Paw grips (so aiming for comfort). I started the day with the fork over-inflated and gradually reduced pressure until I was using 90% of my travel on my runs, leaving a little in reserve. This was coping with all the big hits beautifully but what was really slowing me down was the constant trail chatter. Ease off the grip and the bar’ll get out of hand (literally). Tighten grip and it bl00dy hurts too. I wound my brake levers right in so I wasn’t over-reaching to cover them.

You’ll notice I haven’t mentioned compression or rebound yet, which is because I don’t really understand them. Are either of these going to be the cause of the excruciating chatter? I have low and high speed compression adjustment. When I bought the bike the guys at the Nest suggested a low-speed setting, which I’ve stuck with for nearly two years, but high-speed I’ve no idea.

So, if you’d be so kind, what is the remedy to downhill achey hands and arms that doesn’t involve buying a new fork?

Cheers,
Oli ‘Gaidong’ Pryce

*I did about 10 mins of uplift in the Alps last summer, where I’ve ridden regularly under my own steam, but crashed on the first run and broke my hand 😀

buying a new fork won’t help anyway

The best videos for getting your head around suspension setup are the Vorsprung ones I reckon.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIF1fjRe-xXWztlig1TiT5g

Simply put, having no low or high speed compression damping will give you the plushest ride over chatter, however the forks may feel divey and/or bottom out on bigger hits.

Thanks kiksy, I’ll give those a go.

I’d suggest backing off the high speed compression adjustment, and/or servicing the forks (if they haven’t recently been serviced).

Tyre pressures?

Oh and as with all things fork adjustment-y, experiment over a few rides until you find something that works then leave it. And if you’re using 90% of your travel and this is the lumpiest/hardest riding, back the pressure off a little more until you kiss the bottom out just once or twice in a while (otherwise you might as well run 145mm travel forks).

@Chunky, I haven’t seen my wife for a few weeks so I would have thought I was sorted for that on one side at least.

@hols2, yes, I have suspected tyre pressures a bit. I was nervous about flatting. I’ll go check them now.

braking too much, brakes set up well, need bleeding?

borrow a shockwizz sounds like a good plan, just make sure you also write down notes/ take screenshots of all your settings & results etc

Luckily the solution is to ride in the Alps more, basically your hands aren’t used to it. Also you are still probably gripping too hard , which again gets better the more you ride.

So more big mountain rides ! ( and a pre-emptive ibuprofen)

Plus one for tyre pressure but another factor are your bar grips. I use Raceface Straefe grips which made a massive difference for me or foam grips??
Just an idea:)

Front 25 psi, rear 30 psi, which doesn’t sound daft.

Grips shouldn’t be a problem, super soft.

Braking too much… the state of my rear tyre would suggest YES.

Happy to keep riding some more. Fantastic couple of days and luckily not too far away from me.

Front 25 psi, rear 30 psi,

Depends on the tyre. If they’re big heavy DH tyres, that’s quite high. Might be worth dropping the pressure a few PSI to see if that helps. Also, try a different pressure guage. The one on my pump reads 5 PSI lower than my Topeak digital guage.

It might help the OP if one of you kind folk could explain the difference between the high and low speed compression damping (I’m not so good at the technicalities of which compression is which as I’m stuck with what the fork is preset to).

With rebound (assuming it’s just one adjustment) you will want a setting that allows the fork to return just quick enough on small bumps to stop it packing down (i.e. not recovering travel between each bump and basically becoming almost rigid) but no faster otherwise it will pogo you off into the hedge when you hit something bigger.

I’d bet the fat grips are your biggest problem. Swap to some thinner grips and while the cushioning is less you’ll be a lot more comfortable.

as Munrobiker says, the fat grips are more likely to be a hinderance than a help. Thinner grips and thinner gloves too if your have any padding (the layers shuffle around meaning to feel like you have to grip tighter)

LSC – this affects the control of shock at low shaft speeds e.g pedalling.

HSC – this affects the control of the shock and high shaft speeds e.g drops.

The high and low do not reflect the speed of the bike but the speed of the shock shaft.

LSC/HSC are intertwined. There is a good video from steve at vorsprung showing how the amount of HSC effects the amount of LSC. There are two parts to it.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/tuesday-tune-ep-5-high-and-low-speed-damping-part-1-2016.html

another thing you can do is look at the cane creek dialled app.

Compression damping controls how quickly your fork/shock compresses under force.

Rebound damping controls how quickly it springs back up again.

A pogo stick bounces because it has no damping. You need enough to make sure the suspension is working as smoothly and efficiently as possible, for the way you use the bike.

High speed and low speed refer to the speed the suspension is moving, not the bike.
So you could set the high speed a bit softer, to make sure it has time to get back to it’s normal bit of the travel on rocky/high speed sudden impacts and harder on the low speed to make sure it bobs about less and is more stable and doesn’t use too much travel on say, swoopy sections with lots of compressions.

I like to wind all the damping off (think fast moving pogo stick), then just add a little at a time until it feels as smooth as possible.

Thanks for that.

Interesting on the grips. I do have a set of Easton lock-ons I can swap out.

Yes, I was using Maxxis Shorty and HR2 DH versions. I’m just such a notorious rim buster (easy now) that I probably err too far on the side of caution.

Hmm, sounds like I need to get back to the mountains sooner than I thought. I’m only 3 hours from the Pyrenees at present but live about 7 hours drive from the Alps. Hmmm, there’s a chance I could organise a small conference in the Maurienne in the autumn…

As for trails last weekend, I stayed mainly on the blues, concentrating on smoothness (ha ha) and picking up speed but also did a couple of reds with no major problems, and one black for the giggles. I fell but not badly, more of a judicious jump off into a bush.

I know my upper body strength isn’t what it should be but I was with my brother and his friend, both carpenters and fairly well-built. Brother suffered like I did but the other guy was fine. Brother was on a Radon Skeen 120 (so obviously a bit out of its depth), the other guy on a brand new Scott Genius plus jobby. He won on the way down, walked on the way up the next day (1150 m+). I was second both days and thus the defacto WINNER!

HEELS DOWN!!

I often see people who don’t ride that much steep stuff putting far too much weight on the bars. Get your heels down, take your weight on your legs, just guide the bars with your hands / wrists.

You may also want to lift your bars a bit, by rotating them backwards, or putting spacers under the stem (if your steerer is long enough). And check the angle of your brake levers. if they are too low, you’ll be pulled forwards on the bike because you are braking the whole time, rotate them backwards to move your your palm back and around the bars. (for serious terrain, rather than XC racing, your brake levers should NOT be in line with your arms….)

Also, check the tightness of your headset preload. Nipping that up a bit can help prevent the steering feeling too lively.

Ultimately, a >30min big mountain descent is going to be more physically demanding than most riding in the uk

Good advice on the heel front Maxtorque ! Weight on the feet not on the bars.

On the brake lever front, I agree but how far should you go ? How close to horizontal do you suggest for say BPW ? Would 25 to 30 deg short of horizontal work ?

Just noticed you’re on 35mm bars too. These things are really harsh, I’d swap them to 31.8mm bars. The change to 35mm is one of the strangest things I’ve seen in the mountain bike world lately, they are relentlessly stiff and do have a pretty negative effect on ride quality.

I’d lower the tire pressure…. you’re running them harder than many WC riders. Now you might be heavier than them but you’re probably hitting things a lot slower though.

Pinkbike Article on setup at Leogang this year

Just spotted those last comments, many thanks. I’ll definitely try and dial that in for next time!

If you are braking too much This will have a big impact. Under braking the trail will feel much bumpier as the bike is weighted wrong. The more you can let it run over the bumpy stuff the better the suspension works.

After a session with Jedi a few years back, my brakes are also set near horizontal. I never suffer any arm pump in the Alps and I’m no lightweight.

I strongly disagree with the thin grip suggestion, depending on the size of your hands of course. I utterly ruined my wrists by using stock thin grips on a new bike and that was UK riding.

nickfrog

On the brake lever front, I agree but how far should you go ? How close to horizontal do you suggest for say BPW ? Would 25 to 30 deg short of horizontal work ?

Here’s my Dune in Les Arcs last year. As you can see, the front is high and the brake levers really quite close to horizontal (perhaps 10 to 15deg down)

But what works for me, might not work for you, so it’s best to experiment a bit to find a cockpit setting that feels good.

Almost no high speed compression damping will give you the best feel in terms of Plushness and your hands/arms will feel better for it.

My 36s have some ludicrous recommendation for HSC and they feel harsh as hell on it – almost to the point I thought something was broken. It might just give you an advantage in terms of absolute grip but it’s virtually unusable on more than 1 or 2 runs.

Big gobs of HSC is for the pros only IMHO