when there isn't anything left for you otherwise.

Anyone done it? What was your experience and would you do it again?

My parents did it, in a way.

From my perspective then it worked for me, they'd told us they were splitting up but we were quite young and were very upset over the thought of it. Our parents spent more and more time living apart under claims of living near work during the week and having to work away from home. I should imqagine for them it was a real ballache but as far as we were concerned nothing was wrong. I guess they'd actually split up that day they told us. They maintained this subterfuge for a good 6 or 7 years until I'd finished my O levels and then made it official.

edit: oh, and my dad blamed the split entirely on this chap who turned up in town giving talks on how women should free themselves from the shackles of their mysogenic partners. At least three women we knew all left their husbands within months of that chap coming round.

from the kids point of view, don't do it. Kids are more resiliant than you realise and will cope with most things. It's not going to do you any good long term and that's likely to have more of an effect on the kids.

I'm in the process of splitting up with the missus. I've moved out as i got to the point where i felt we'd reached the point where we were two people just sharing a house. There was no 'relationship' left at all.

We were just doing it for the kids. Then decided not too. From the people i know who've done it, they echo exactly what Onzadog said.

Its **** painful though

I was a 'weekend dad' for more than 10 years. Agree with binners insofar as it is **** painful, but the alternative for me (staying in a marriage with a wife who had decided she wanted to be with someone else, constant rows and recriminations) was too detrimental for the kids. I think it worked out in the end, as I still have a good relationship with my kids (both grown up now and doing ok), but it definitely takes a lot of work and heartbreak at the time.

I'm with you jonv

10 year marriage seems to be over – 3 kids who seem to be blissfully ignorant at the moment (house is going on the market – we have told them we are trying to move closer to their school – this is true but the reality is I will be getting a flat on my own as close as possible to wherever they end up)

I wanted to try and work things out -she doesn't. We are still under one roof at the moment and its hard, really hard. I'm really angry with her, she gets angry with me back etc etc. I can't afford to pay rent somewhere else though, and we are totally dependent on each other as far as taking kids to school etc. Its such a mess

I'm not sure on the details of your break up – I wanted to do councelling etc, she doesn't. If you are going to stay together you have to both be really commited to trying to make it work. In my case she isn't which means its not worth trying

Don't stay together for the sake of the kids. My mum split with my dad when I was 18months (didn't know him while I was growing up), remarried three times before I was 18 and it hasn't affected me much (others may disagree).

My wifes folks on the otherhand have stayed together and the bitterness and unhappiness that is obvious is really sad to see. It makes me think I'm so glad that my folks were happy and apart than together and not.

It'll be tough initially but in time it'll be better.

B

I left my husband two years ago after twenty years of marriage. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life because I didn't want to hurt my kids. But as a parent, you are also the biggest influence in a child's life, you show them how to build relationships and I want my children to know what a relationship should be like. If they grow up thinking that it's normal for Mum & Dad not to talk to each other or show any love or affection towards each other, or worse still, be aggresive towards each other, then that is possibly how they will behave in their relationships.

We are all doing ok, I'm much happier, my kids (11 and 9) are much happier and I think that their Dad is too. We share the kids, week on, week off and the time that I spend with them is the best quality that I've ever had.

If they grow up thinking that it's normal for Mum & Dad not to talk to each other or show any love or affection towards each other, or worse still, be aggresive towards each other, then that is possibly how they will behave in their relationships.

+1

Except replace "possibly" with "probably".

When I was 4 years old, my Dad sat me down on a wall and told me he and my Mum were splitting up, and asked me who I wanted to live with. I cried and cried,.. as did my brother.

In time, my parents decided "to stay together for the kids". We had a horrible upbringing: a violent, chaotic, maelstrom of psychological and emotional warfare that left us both 'damaged'. Took 7 years of Psychotherapy to help me out of that little issue….

The answer to your dilemma depends so much on how you and your wife are going to treat eachother and your kids.

Can you both be kind, supportive parents and maintain a healthy, non-argumentative family environment despite your troubles? if so, for ****'s sake don't split up.

If you can't, it may be better to go your separate ways than for your kids to suffer a toxic family environment.

Grievoustim- that sounds awful, sort of been there, I know I don't know you but hang in there

In November, my parents will have been married for 40 years. Great? Well, judging by the very separate lives they have lead for the last I-don't-know-how-many years, I'm not so sure. They chose to stay together for the kids, and it's difficult to say how much it has or hasn't affected us.

I remember the day my mother took me and my sister for a day out. We went to Stratford (on Avon) and walked by the river. I never noticed that my father was on the other side of the river. Though my mother hadn't told us, he was supposed to move out that day. However, he couldn't bring himself to leave us, and so they settled into a sort of half relationship that continues into their 60s.

Am I glad they stayed together? I don't know. Perhaps the key is to try to make the best of the relatioship between the kids, even where there is little or no relatiohsip between the parents. Neither option is right, and neither option is wrong.

If you do end up saplitting up, don't take out your unhappiness on the kids, but don't pretend everything is all happy families either. Being truthful is the most valuable thing.

Mrs North and I have been together – unmarried – for approaching 13 years. We've never been happier. The world is very odd indeed.

Hope you work it out, all of you.

OMITN

PS Binners – sounds like you need a ride out some time. Mainly to the pub.

At least three women we knew all left their husbands within months of that chap coming round

Papa Lazarou really does exist see!

On a less serious note. The sooner you split the better. I guess they grow up used to it. Rather than a wrenching realisation. You are entitled to a life too. Your happiness will reflect on your children.

"If they grow up thinking that it's normal for Mum & Dad not to talk to each other or show any love or affection towards each other, then that is possibly how they will behave in their relationships"

Exactly what my parents did and I suck at relationships. I wished they would split up!

Don't stay together for the sake of the kids, I "knew" at 9 my parents weren't like other parents, Mum went eventually when I was 15. Yes kids are resilient, and I had a pretty "normal" upbringing, I certainly didn't suffer the horror that Digger90 went through, but I'm 41 now, and when I get together with my older brother, and the beer starts flowing, then conversation will eventually, still get round to it. (mainly his guilt about being at uni when it happened)

Don't slag each other off in front of the kids, don't use them as weapons, answers their questions as honestly as you can.

Good luck

It's a tough one, my parents stayed together for me and my brother until I was 16 him 14.

We literally had no idea – they did a pretty good job of hiding it, I guessed though about 6 months before they dropped the bomb. Having figured it out I was fine, my brother not so. I always feel like they did a good thing for us but as the years have gone on, I've started to remember and interpret things and realised perhaps not. I've always got on great with my Dad, I had a pretty crap relationship with my Mum (she was miserable all the time and I was a royal PITA). Once they'd split though (we stayed with Dad as Mum couldn't really afford to have us anyway) my Mum changed dramatically, and I kind of realise now how bad for her it was that they stayed together for us. She was basically trapped, and hiding the truth all those years resulted in me thinking she was just a cow all the time. So now I kinda just feel a bit guilty now…

For the record, they were amazing on my wedding day, they hadn't spoke in something like 7 years and were proper stars!

Wow, never shared that on the internets before…

I guess I haven't helped but maybe hearing it from the child's side might help? I'm just shy of 27 now btw…

Just don't fight whatever you do… I think the split can be handled easily enough, just don't be seen tearing each other a new one!

Hmmm a tricky one – my parents sort of did that and yes growing up in a house full of suppressed anger, resentment and with no affection was not the route I decided to follow, I split with the first Mrs DaRC just over 10 years ago.
Best thing I did – my relationship with the kids is good, although being a w/e dad is hard.

On t'other hand a friend is currently in this situation, wants to leave but his missus drags the kids into every argument and uses them as emotional blackmail to keep him there. Trouble is he doesn't want them turned against him and one is autistic and at a critical stage of his development.

I honestly dont get why adults would go round living a charade. How it must have mucked with their own 'what if's life. Very selfless I agree but ultimately I think everyone is owed a life.

What both parents must remember is that they have a 50% responsibility to their children. The other parent is entitled to spend as much time with them as you are. However much I would like full custody of my kids (and so would their Dad) they love us equally and need both of us, we both have very different and important roles to play in their lives and so should spend equal amounts of their time with us – if they want to.

A couple of months ago, my eldest daughter told her Nan that it was really nice to have her happy Mum back.

Must admit though. Its nice to see the 'better' sides of breaking up. none of the controlling the kids/blocking access/spreading hersay etc.

If the parents are going to behave like that then they may as well stay together, it's just as damaging but they'll probably be financially better off!
If you want to be amicable treat the other half with the respect that you yourself would like to be treated with. Go to a family mediator, they will help you draw up an agreement that suits all of you and tell you your legal responsibilities, you can then make it a legally binding document. As soon as you get solicitors involved, they will always fight for more at the expense of any amicable relationship that you are trying to maintain with your ex-partner.

Don't stay together for the kids, because your tension WILL be felt by them and the problems you have will have some affect on them. I split with my ex 3 years ago now and I'm glad I did because a) the kids are happier b) I'm happier and c) I've had 3 very very good years lol. My kids also live with me as I made my ex leave. The kids didn't want to be with her and although it's been tough at times we get there in the end and we have probably come a bit closer too. I won't beat about the bush but it's very painful, even if you don't get on as lots and lots of things go through your head but you will get there and you will wonder why you didn't do it ages ago.

thanks for all the comments. Thankfully we're not at that stage yet, although if we don't start to invest some time in being us instead of being 'parents of…' I can see that in time we could easily be in the boat where the only thing that connects us is our kids. The question comes because I suspect my parents were the same (although they remain very happily married now still after 46 years, and they were never acrimonious, just never actually that close) and I've just seen a work colleague have a very sad split now his boys are both away at Uni.

I need to talk to her, I know that, I'm just not very good at expressing my feelings. Maybe I'm emotionally repressed after the experience of my folks. Can i put it in a 'letter' so at least I'll be sure I can say what I need to say and that she will hear it properly and digest it?

Thanks again for the kind thoughts, and wishes go out to those in similar and worse situations than mine is right now.

I am in a new relationship now and 'communication' is the most important thing. It doesn't matter how you say it, just make sure you do. I tried talking to my ex but I couldn't seem to get through until it was all too late and my feelings for him just weren't there anymore. Don't wait, the sooner the better, if you are unhappy then she is too – guaranteed! But make sure you listen as well, it's just as important. Good luck.

I'm just not very good at expressing my feelings.

Lots of people feel like that, myself included. You have to try though, and you might be surprised once you break the uncomfortable barrier. For me it's like a switch that needs an enormous push, but then stays locked open for a bit.

You absolutetly cannot do this in a letter, because what you need is a two way conversation. Maybe write down some of the things you want to say so you can get it clear in your head. I hope you can work it out.

You could write it in a letter but stay with her while she reads it. Then you can talk about it afterwards.

Good luck to you jonv.

I went through this just over a year ago. Truly the worst experience I have ever been through. My daughters live 50:50 with me and their mother but to be honest I still miss them terribly when they aren't with me. But with hindsight I am happier now and I have seen my ex in a new light and realise that I wouldn't want to be with her now. If and when a 3rd party gets involved things will get worse again for a while.

My daughters are 8 and they have "dealt" with it remarkably well. Possibly because they are twins and they always have each other.

But you will get through it and splitting up will probably be better for the kids in the long term.

All the best.

Sounds like you haven't reach the actual breaking point yet jonv.

We've sailed very close to the precipice, but not gone over the edge – but that was because we both wanted to be together as a couple, and it wasn't just for the children.

Sometimes you don't get to that vital bit of communication until you are staring down the barrel and you both finally start to speak honestly about what you really want.

We've come through it better and stronger – perhaps counselling might help the communication process. I find writing a letter helped me clarify my thoughts and feelings so I could speak more honestly and openly, I never actually gave her the letter.

I did it. When they became adults and left home, it was blindingly obvious (or so I thought) that they were the only thing we had in common.

I left after decades of marriage and it's been damn hard and still is. But I have become stronger and happier.

Looking back (isn't hindsight wonderful) we should have split sooner. It's only now when my adult son talks to me that he says his parents' marriage seemed rather odd cos we virtually led separate lives, although we never argued.

Meant to have said you should explore every avenue to save your marriage and that means communication, and then more communication.

Good luck with your decision.

Coming from a different angle,just because kids say that they're ok,the opposite might be closer to the truth. My Mrs. works with the disruptive kids at school. They're usually hard-faced,foul-mouthed and generally unpleasant.My wife is very good with kids of all ages,and eventually they open up to her. Mum and Dad have split,they pretend that they can cope,but really they just want their mum and dads.
….But life isn't that simple,been through some tough times myself,so can sympathise with you.

Mine's did and I wouldn't. Kids will adapt to seperated parents a lot quicker than the atmosphere that happens between two people who don't want to be together.

The child's perspective: My parents separated when I was doing GCSEs, and 8 years later (now) my little brother is still suffering because of it. If both sides are capable of not arguing in front of the kids and making parenting decisions together then do it. Saying that, thats how parents should behave when together… I'd hazard a guess that each case is different and you have to choose the best action.

Its a tough one.

Problem is when you leave your wife you're also divorcing the kids (in a way) – I'm talking from personal experience. I know it would never have worked but it's still very hard and no matter what age it will always be an open sore.

I was faced with this very choice years ago when my children were relatively young – I agonised over it for ages / several years then went, reckoning that it was better 'getting it over with' than leaving when the kids were in their teens etc. It's not easy, and frankly if your wife/partner and you can sincerely explore every avenue then do so – staying together for the sake of the kids only works to the point when the kids leave home.

"If they grow up thinking that it's normal for Mum & Dad not to talk to each other or show any love or affection towards each other, then that is possibly how they will behave in their relationships"

Exactly what my parents did and I suck at relationships. I wished they would split up!

+1 – I am an only child and never saw my parents express any affection for each other – not a kiss or even holding hands – and they lived completely separate lives under the same roof, apart from regular rows. Also lots of family secrets – my Mum told me when I was 28 that my father had been married before, and a couple of years ago (in my 40s) that he had had a daughter from his previous marriage, and he didn't want me to know about either.

I have found it very difficult to get close to people in relationships and to express my feelings to the other person. I am sure both my parents would have lived more fulfilling and happy lives had they parted, and I believe I would have had a more mature approach to my own relationships.

Good luck with whatever decision you make!

My unhappy parents stayed togeather. Looking back I really wish they hadn't. I wish they had split when I was very young, as young children if given emotional support, expanations and security are able to cope.

I say I wish they split becasuse:

Later on when they had 'wasted' thier lives, my mother blamed my sister and I for 'forcing' her to stay with my dad. I think becasue she did not fully realise what a mistake it was to stay until her life was gone past. It was awful for my sister and I to be told it was all our fault. People get bitter and disappointed as time goes by, in ways they dont expect to when they first decide to 'stay for the kids'.

You get rubbish examples of how an effective relationship works. My own relationships have been poor and all have failed. I see other people who had happy co-operative and communicating parents haveing sucessfull relationships themselves in later life as they have a more effective role model.

Its miserable being the go-between for your parents and acting as the cushion between unhappy people.

Its awful if you see one parent as more downtrodden as its impossible not to want to try and protect and 'save' them from the more dominant one – so you are set up to be hostile to the dominant parent or end up dispising the weaker seeming one – and end up as the social worker to one or both of them.

In the end, one parent will probabally leave anyway, so there is not much gained except extra years of misery for the adults and kids and then its all ripped up anyway.