A neighbour tells me there are static ANPR cameras on every A road in and out of the nearby town, which is Blackburn. I’m pretty observant and I know there are some strange-looking cameras high up on a mast on the ring road, Whitebirk Drive, near the M65 junction and an ANPR cameras website has now confirmed that that’s what they are.

This is not the blue cameras, which have been around for years most notably on bridges; they are connected with traffic flow data.

Does anybody know if my neighbour is correct? Are there that many ANPR cameras recording our movements? On the site I saw, it said the data is stored for two years.

Quite probaly.

But I’m firmly in the “I’ve got nothing to hide” camp. If they catch some uninsured, untaxed, un MOT’d drivers then double them. And I can’t imagine the CSI team are going to be typing my name into any databases with fancy, over the top, 3D GUI’s anytime soon to track my movements.

Internet monitoring on the other hand worries me, ive had to drasticaly reduce my consumption of goat porn since big brother started monitoring.

Traffic flow cameras use ANPR to judge how long it takes a particular vehicle to travel an known distance. Seem to recall they only use the middle few digits of the number though?

There are a lot of them – the police often use the data for criminal investigations to track suspects’ movements.

Its odd to me that these cameras are all over the shop yet my neighbours had their posh Merc stolen off the drive and police said they had no idea where it went. Is this just a case of all thieves having bogus plates with them?

I know the police tracked my car into Nottingham using ANPR after it was stolen. It was first spotted in Lincoln with false plates that didn’t match the tax disc.

There’s 3 cameras on the M61 northbound midway between the Services and Junction 8 that are simular, they are all on one bridge and cover every lane.

I’ve been up on the bridge on the bike, and they are defiantly not Traffic Master or simular.

well, its coming, unavoidably so, as its a cheap way for police to monitor stuff, and to get general traffic data. does it worry you that your car’s movements are tracked?

if you wanted to go somewhere incognito, just get a taxi, or ride a bike.

or, move to the country, where none of this big brother stuff happens much

But I’m firmly in the “I’ve got nothing to hide” camp

I’ve been meaning to have a word about that, I think you should get around to buying some curtains for your house.

where none of this big brother stuff happens much

I’ve watched Miss Marple and listened to the Archers.

The whole village always knows exactly what everyone else is doing.

No big brother my arse 😉

It’s easy enough to destroy them…

Good, got nothing to worry about if you are legit. More ANPR, more CCTV please.

Let’s install CCTV in your home. After all if you’ve nothing to hide..

Possibly every variant of camera on one post; Here

tomkerton – Member
Good, got nothing to worry about if you are legit. More ANPR, more CCTV please.

Posted 13 minutes ago # Report-Post
ohnohesback – Member
Let’s install CCTV in your home. After all if you’ve nothing to hide..

I already have and I find the Hommer Simpson slippers and boxers combo while making a brew a little offence.

Here’s the wiki page. Everyone is tracked, and info stored for 2 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police-enforced_ANPR_in_the_UK

OK I’ll bite,

Ohnohesback- what’s the issue. Why not get uninsured drivers off the road? Why not track criminals as they move round the country? Why not catch criminals doing what they shouldn’t be doing on Video? I pay my road taxes and insurance & I’m not a criminal so I’m pleased that these devices make my world safer.

I’d like an ID card too.

I pay my road taxes

More fool you, you’ve not had to do that for close on a century.

I’d like an ID card too

Not stopping you but why do I need one?
the state serves the citizens we dont serve the state

Its one of those its a balance between our right to privacy and the states attempts to protect us from harm [ I dont think that is the real reason these days they seem obsessed with data to the extent it must be so massive they cannot actually monitor it]

That balance is not currently on the side of individual freedom IMHO.

Having nothing to hide and choosing to share it with the state are not the same thing
I have nothing to hide but it is none of their god damn business. Have you noticed how secretive they like to be about how much snooping they do ? they understand privacy when it applies to them but not us.

I’d like an ID card too

You may be happy to give up your liberty to the current powers that be but who knows who will be in charge in the future or how they will choose to abuse the data we’ve given them about ourselves.

</tin_foil_hat>

I’d like an ID card too.

We’re doomed, to coin a phrase.

OK the ID card was unnecessary, I apologise for thread creep! Was fun though.

I already have given a lot of info in order to carry out my job and jobs in the past so it’s not really an issue for me (MoD security clearances, airside pass for airports)

But how about the other bit of my post? What’s wrong with the ANPR cameras if you’re legit?

What’s wrong with the ANPR cameras if you’re legit?

Its the same reason you’d argue against too much government surveillance in any walk of life. It almost always gets misused.

You talk about “criminals” but such surveillance is often used against people who haven’t broken a law, but might for instance be peacefully protesting against the government.

I already have given a lot of info

you chose to give that info though – its not the same as the state taking it

That’s the compromise though HH.

I’d rather the terrorists and criminals be tracked and monitored and if the price is what you talk about – is it worth it? With the recent trial of the two gents who killed Lee Rigby I know which side of the fence I fall. More surveillance please.

But I’m firmly in the “I’ve got nothing to hide” camp.

I’ve never quite understood this attitude,

How do you know what the politicians may try to ban or enforce next ?

After all it was only a few years ago that the then Labour government was seriously considering making ALL UK citizens apply for travel permits if they wanted go abroad ….

it didn’t happen but it is worrying that they even thought about it. (imho)

Junkyard – fair point, I do understand that.

With the recent trial of the two gents who killed Lee Rigby I know which side of the fence I fall.

If the beheading of people in the street was an everyday occurrence I’d be more inclined to agree, but we’re fortunate enough to live in a bit of the world where that rarely happens.
Even if it was more frequent I suspect it would be very unlikely to be prevented by more cameras (especially numberplate recognition ones 😉 ) or other automated surveillance.

On 18 November 2005 British police constable Sharon Beshenivsky was shot and killed during a robbery in Bradford. The CCTV network was linked into an ANPR system and was able to identify the getaway car and track its movements, leading to the arrest of six suspects. At its launch in May, Ch Supt Geoff Dodd of West Yorkshire Police, called the ANPR system a “revolutionary tool in detecting crime”.

Someone who knows about this stuff told me they are far too busy to bother about the person driving around overdue for an MOT test. As an example they did find a particular car and driver after a nasty shotgun incident though.

Now all we punters have to worry about is electing honest politicians, so there’s no misuse of this stuff.

Lots of anpr cameras around usually half way up a lamp post, double cameras side by side, on all the roads into the wirral and also around chester on the roundabouts, just below the bigger cctv cameras.

They could also be used for road tolling , eg charging to drive on selected roads or into city centres, like bus lane cameras,

IIRC the Bersheninsky suspects that were first arrested were later found to be innocent.

It’s the cheapest and easiest way to introduce nationwide Road User Charging. The sooner the better from my point of view.

As an aside, if they use it to get the 2 million+ untaxed, uninsured vehicles/drivers off the road that’d be good too.

Its odd to me that these cameras are all over the shop yet my neighbours had their posh Merc stolen off the drive and police said they had no idea where it went

The cameras are static – all they would record is if the car passed the camera, if it passed it at all. Having passed the camera – then what how do you know where it went next, even if it passed a whole host of cameras you still wouldn’t know where it is even seconds later.

The data could be used in a criminal investigation rather than just spotting dud tax disks, but it would be about accrued patterns of movement – regular movements of vehicles, not the get away from a heist unless it was combined with other TV cameras. But this would be amongst the noise of all other movements of traffic much of which will also be regular and lots of which will be totally random. There isn’t a pattern of movement in itself that could somehow draw attention to anyones actions. So someone would already need to be under some sort of suspicion and you’d be trying to ascertain their movements or history of movements in relation to a location or in relation to other suspects.

I wonder if the neighbour’s posh Merc was taken to a quiet spot nearby then either had new plates stuck on, or was driven into a panel truck.

Have them allover Manchester. They are used to track/monitor potential terrrorists I think?

Its our ‘ring of steel’.

I think other than for joy riding (is that still fashionable?) anyone who steals a car would want to hide or disguise its identity almost immediately.

With the recent trial of the two gents who killed Lee Rigby I know which side of the fence I fall. More surveillance please.

This was an awful crime, but not only did the guy hang around afterwards waiting for police, he actually walked up to someone holding a camera, waved the knife around, and explained why he did it. I’m not sure it would have been prevented by more surveillance?

I know they are now using bluetooth gizmos attached to infrastructure on the road network to track movements. They pick up a signal from phone or similar device in a car when it passes by then when it passes another gizmo further down the road it can work out journey time data etc similar to the ANPR cameras.

I believe they are cheaper so we might see less ANPR cameras in future.

I know they are now using bluetooth gizmos attached to infrastructure on the road network to track movements. They pick up a signal from phone or similar device in a car when it passes by then when it passes another gizmo further down the road it can work out journey time data etc similar to the ANPR cameras.

I believe they are cheaper so we might see less ANPR cameras in future.

Well, that’s me sorted, then; I never have BT turned on, ever. And I frankly fail to see how a BT device can be of any use, because very few people actually use BT, except for headsets, and judging by the number of drivers with phones held in their hands, those are damned few, plus BT hasn’t got much range, maybe thirty feet, and how can a phone handset be connected to a particular car? What if it’s a PAYG, bought cheap in a supermarket? There will be no record of the person using it.
Sounds apocryphal, to me.
[edit] well! it does seem to exist: http://www.tdcsystems.co.uk/solutions/bluetooth-journey-time-system/bluetooth-journey-time-system
Still means that many people will be effectively anonymous, like me, who never have BT turned on, or use BT-enabled devices.
I could get away with murder… 😉