Orange Stage 5

or
Banshee Prime

Which ever one rode best within my budget… Though probably neither

Thoroughly enjoyed my Prime when I had it. It is a pretty burly frame and feels like you can hammer through anything so I suspect it is more bike than the orange even though the travel is roughly the same. Depends on your riding, very different suspension feel between the two designs though.

Definitely the two frames which stand out to me as possible Codeine replacements I like that the Banshee has the option of 142×12 and plenty of tyre clearance.

Never ridden one though and I do like the way Oranges ride and the low maintenance of a single pivot.

As a self confessed Orangeofile …….. (new word of the week 😯 )
I do like the Simplicity of the Stage 5

I tested a Spitfire last year and liked it.. but my HT is a 29er..
So a 29er seems to be the way to go for me..
The Prime is drawing me in.. though it may just be the Orange paint job on it.. 🙄

I’ve got an alipne 5 which is to all intents the same bike as the stage 5 but lacking the new (nicer looking) swing arm and the boost rear, awesome bike imho (after all this is recommend-what-you’ve-got-track-world) and if the boosted rear does get rid of a little flex that wouldn’t be a bad thing.

Based on geometry and likely frame weights, I’d be more interested in the Orange.

Also wins on aesthetics for me, but YMMV.

Trek Fuel EX 29 is the mid-travel 29er I’m most interested in trying at the mo.

I was about to say the Stage 5, but it looks like the Prime has been usefully updated for 2017 so I’m leaning towards that.

My two-penn’orth (although based on non-current versions of both):

I had a 2012 Orange 5, which I loved. It had an RP23 shock and Marzocchi RC3 44 ti forks (150mm). A super capable bike and really engaging. Im not the most hard-core rider and I’m sure I was “over-biked”, but it was so playful and so much fun it always made me smile. Was also handy climber, although not light in that build.

However, my riding (which was always skewed to natural trails) started taking in steeper, rougher and rockier lines and I found that even on the Orange I’d reached the limits of my ability / confidence. Following a “friend of a friend” recommendation I bought a 2014 Prime, built with CCDB Air and 150mm Pikes (51mm offset). My thinking was that I’d ride both bike alternately, and sell one of them at the end of the year.

I haven’t ridden my Orange once since then. For me, the Banshee is awesome. More secure on the rough stuff, faster on the smooth stuff, and the way it picks up speed when you point it downhill is like pushing a boulder off a cliff. It climbs with less effort and it’s also given me the confidence to start getting off the ground – something it does much better than I expected. Also feels lighter than the Orange (though I’m not sure it is).

Having said that, I took it for its first trail centre trip recently and it didn’t really feel like it’s natural environment (although still fun). But when I swapped with my much faster buddy who normally rides a Giant Trance he couldn’t believe how much faster he was on the Prime, even on the blues and the reds.

I don’t know how 2017 versions of either bike compare to mine, but I would (and do – ad nauseum) recommend the Prime to anyone. If you’re anywhere near West Cornwall you’re more than welcome to have a play on mine…

Based on geometry and likely frame weights, I’d be more interested in the Orange.

The only real difference I can see in geometry is that the Prime has a slightly wider spread of sizes, so the medium is smaller and the XL is larger, with the large of both basically identical.

I like the simplicity and made in Englandness of the Orange but I like the adjustable geometry and swappable dropouts of the Banshee and, having been on a Spitfire for the last three years, I think the KS-link suspension design is possibly the best on the market.

Reach marginally longer and chainstays marginally shorter on the Orange, comparing the sizes I could fit on.

Reach marginally longer and chainstays marginally shorter on the Orange, comparing the sizes I could fit on.

4mm more reach and 3mm less chainstay on the large Orange. But that’s static. If the Orange has more chaingrowth (likely as it’s a single pivot) then the chainstay length at sag could be longer and the Banshee has slightly more stack height so that increases effective reach. And if one prefers more sag at the back vs front then that’ll change the reach more than the static difference.

Too close to call on geometry on that size and the larger and smaller sizes come down to personal fit.

I need an XL so having read your comments on the other thread CGG (you’re my wife now…) I have obviously spent the afternoon tossing it off reading up about Primes. Could be one bike to rule them all, the fabled quiver killer if you will. I have been spoiled by the weight of the carbon stumpy though, the Prime will be a chunk more. Though potentially more than offset by pedalling efficiency. The Prime also has the same problem as many bikes in that when you’re all legs the effective seat tube angle gets slacker the higher the saddle is. Not as pronounced as the stumpy though so hmmmm. Also don’t think the Banshees are lookers but I guess it’s all about the ride. Isn’t it?

I love a bit of theoretical shopping on a Friday!

Gotama – how are finding the geomatron compared to the prime? I remember contemplating asking you for a go on the prime last year, think you’re Surrey Hills based?

Davosaurusrex – Yes, that’s me. The Nicolai is fantastic. The Prime was a very good bike and I enjoyed riding it but the Nicolai is just better. The sizing feels far more natural and it really gives you room to move around on the bike without feeling like you’re tipping over the front or hanging off the back. The stability of the bike when it is fast and rough is far beyond that of the prime, it’s remarkable. You’re welcome to have a go on mine on some local trails as I appreciate XL in anything is hard to test, just drop me an email from profile.

And not being picky but just to be clear…the G13 is a Nicolai bike designed with heavy input from mojo through the work on the geometrons. I bought mine from Mojo (one of their guys lives in Gomshall) but it’s not the geometron 29er per se which is a 150mm bike I think and requires custom charging from Nicolai. The G13 is 133 rear, 140 front, although you can run 150mm front no problems. It feels absolutely spot on for surrey hills stuff and I expect it to be great when I take it to Finale later in the year.

Thanks Gotama, very generous of you. Tempted to take you up on it when the weather improves a bit although part of me thinks I shouldn’t as I can’t afford one! Mind you I wouldn’t mind being shown some of the harder to find trails as well if you wouldn’t mind, we always end up riding the more usual stuff when we come up there

No worries, just drop me an email, happy to show you around although I would just say that I know all the trails on Holmbury/Peaslake/Winterfold. If you’re talking of Mickleham/Ranmore then I still need guiding myself 😳

And yes, once I’d had a demo on the mojo 29er bike it didn’t take me long to order my G13 😀

I really liked my Prime. Just a total beast of a bike, very efficient and very confidence inspiring. Not the most engaging ride in some ways though – it’s a hell of a lot more bike than its 135mm travel suggests it is, and ideally needs to be ridden hard, and on challenging terrain.

2017 updates look really good.

I’d agree with ehrob. I just built up my 2016 prime and on my first ride I beat my overall strava times without thinking about them. It does crush whatever is in front of it and just want to fly. You’d be forgiven for thinking it had 160mm at the back. It’s the plushest fastest most silent ride I’ve ever had. And yes it probably works best on more demanding trails.

Ah shut up you lot. This could be costly. So, ano black or raw and burgundy?

Raw every time. Looks great in the flesh and stays looking good after countless muddy rides.

The raw is actually lacquered (different type of alloy to Nicolai so you can’t leave it bare). The ano black finish is the toughest and a few grams lighter, if you care… And it doesn’t have decals per se, just a texture change in the anodising (its shot-peened with rubber decals, the decals removed and frame anodised). I’d choose whichever looks best with the parts you already have, they’re both badass.

This is its smaller brother in full stealth (medium Spitfire):

Normally I’d go for black, last few bikes have been black, parts I have would go better with black. So I think I’ll go for raw. Change is as good as a holiday!

Stage 6 and stop doing half measures 😉

Hmmmm. My stumpy is about 29lbs. I’m not sure exactly how much the frame weighs but looks like changing to a Prime would come in over 32lbs. Which is fine for what it is but I think it would piss me off after a while as an only bike living down South.

Transition Smuggler although less travel a vey capable bike on the downs especially with 140mm fork up front

Not really any lighter than the banshee though, if I’m going to lug the weight around I’d rather have the extra travel, especially as it sounds like the Prime is an efficient pedaller.

My stumpy was 29lbs when I built it, weighed it again today and it’s 30.6, lorks! Think I weighed it without pedals and it now has tubes as well (been lazy lately) with a few other bits guess it adds up.

Re-weighed it properly, 29.6