Musing over a nicer than the stop gap 29″ singlespeed that I bought earlier this summer and in need of inspiration.

Requirements are…
29″ wheels
Steel
Tapered headtube
30.9/31.6mm seattube
Adjustable dropouts (not ebb)

At the moment a BTR Chaser would be spot on but for the price and other options I’ve spotted are the Pace RC129 and SC Chameleon (I’ really would prefer steel though).

It’ll be a second bike run initially with a rigid fork for hacking around but I’d like it to be versatile in terms of swapping /upgrading forks and wheels in the future.

Second hand isn’t an issue bearing in mind that obscure normally means hard to find.

Suggestions?

Ta.

BTR Chaser

I was about to recommend just that… the other upside being they can do any custom mods you want in terms of fittings and/or geometry.

Hi,

Canfield Nimble9, had one, that was really nice frame.

Cheers!
I.

I wouldn’t discount the chameleon based on frame material, it has a really nice ride feel to it. It’s also very versatile with regard to wheel size and builds up pretty light because of the alu. Mine feels much more compliant than the Swarf I had before it.

That said if I had the choice then I’d get a BTR. Still fancy a ranger from them, possibly to replace my full sus.

Alright Stu, considered a Stanton Sherpa? SS dropouts are an option.

Curtis XC9/AM9?

I’ve gotta be honest, that BTR just looks simple in a “GCSE metalwork” kind of way rather than “clean and simple singlespeed” kind of way.

Although at that price you could go to Dave Yates and build your own!

Curtis XC9/AM9?

I’ve gotta be honest, that BTR just looks simple in a “GCSE metalwork” kind of way rather than “clean and simple singlespeed” kind of way.

Appreciate it is personal preference but that is a bit unfair on BTR. Why are they any more GCSE metalwork than Curtis? Because they’re tig welded rather than brazed? Or the finish on the frame? Disclaimer: whilst not owning one I am a BTR fanboy!

Appreciate it is personal preference but that is a bit unfair on BTR. Why are they any more GCSE metalwork than Curtis? Because they’re tig welded rather than brazed? Or the finish on the frame? Disclaimer: whilst not owning one I am a BTR fanboy!

I’m an engineer, so appreciate the idea of “simplify and add lightness”, but the BTR just leaves me cold. There’s nothing unique or individual about it. Zilch that makes me think “I like the way they’ve done………”. In fact zilch that makes it look like they actually designed it. Hence my oppinion that it looks like a metalwork exercise rather than a high end bike frame.

And stuff like:
The one in the photo has no bottle mounts (it’s an option, but it still makes it looks bad)
The seatube is too long visualy
The disk mounts are fixed, on a frame with track ends
Track ends are a PITA to get the wheel out of on a SS
No stay bridges
Cable routing which prohibits shouldering if you’re right handed!

For a steel frame costing >£1000 I’d expect better details than the off the peg ~£500 Swifts, El-Mariachi etc and some nice touches. Take the Curtis, the seatstay bridge, doesn’t do much, but that kind of thing explains why it’s a £1100 frame.

Ok, personal preference then! I like the seat tube and the fact that it gives better standover is a plus when throwing the bike around, it’s a BTR after all. Why put bridges in if you don’t need them? My chameleon doesn’t have bridges and a lot of what has been written in the press suggest that it is this that adds the magic carpet feel of the rear. To me that also suggests tubing thought and design rather than the Curtis which is just the same as every mass production bike, bar having the name stamped in. Trying to justify the price with token tartyness? 😉 Issues with cable routing is very personal as I have never shouldered a bike like that and they can do internal if you wish. Take your point on track ends and the disc mount though! Anyway, different views on the same thing which I guess is the appeal of custom as you can get what you want!

Sorry, going off topic here, but:

My chameleon doesn’t have bridges and a lot of what has been written in the press suggest that it is this that adds the magic carpet feel of the rear.

I had a Chameleon and loved it to bits, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone describe it as a magic carpet. Maybe a magic jackhammer? Or has the new one had a radical change (reduction) in its stiffness?

I had a Chameleon and loved it to bits, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone describe it as a magic carpet. Maybe a magic jackhammer? Or has the new one had a radical change (reduction) in its stiffness

Totally different bike. Never owned the original myself but a friend had one and it ranked up there with the cove stiffee!

Yup mostly personal preferences, although I’d argue that stuff like cable routing and dropout choice are ‘getting the basics right’, even O-O stick the brake hose out of the way and have adjustable disk mounts. And manages to have a coherent design/look to it.

Or a Karate Monkey. OK it looks like someone attacked it with a nail gun loaded with M4 bolts, but that’s as much Surly’s ‘look’ as it is practical.
And it has novel dropouts/brake mounts (135/142mm hubs drop out the bottom when you pull the QR/axle out). OK I’d not want to shoulder it with all those bottle bosses and cable guides. So they’re both examples of compromises to suit certain niches, but the BTR just looks like an unfinished prototype (the finish doesn’t help, but I’d happily have that on another frame), there’s a lot that could be changed before you start compromising other stuff (cable routing, dropout choice, ovalised top tube, drop the seatpost collar and run a 420mm post).

I had a Chameleon and loved it to bits, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone describe it as a magic carpet. Maybe a magic jackhammer? Or has the new one had a radical change (reduction) in its stiffness?

I think the new one must be different. The old one had a rear end with the stiffness properties of reinforced concrete.

I think focusing on cable routing for any frame is unfair as it is very much down to personal preference*. Not to mention on a custom frame you can ask them to put them anywhere, same with he bottle bosses.

The finish on BTR’s is a curious thing, controversial maybe but when I asked Tam about it his answer was typically BTR:

“I hate paint, it adds weight and offers no performance advantage”

Consequently they look to use a finish that is as minimal as possible while protecting from corrosion. They will paint/powder them if you really want it., but generally speaking there is a ‘why’ behind every part of their frames.

Whether you agree with the ‘why’ is a side-issue, after all if everyone ahd the same opinions all frames would be the same! I like the fact that there is a reason and they’ll explain and stand behind their reasoning if asked, but as with anything custom you can make your own choices too.

*I even have a different preference for different kinds of bikes, let alone a different preference to someone else on the same kind of bike!

Interesting options and not too much more to go in but it’s not like I’m in a rush.

Some interesting comparisons drawn too. I particularly like the look of the Chaser including the dropout arrangement although the potential issue with brake set up hadn’t occurred to me so that’s something to look into. The BTR seems very comparable to the Curtis to me and it’s interesting that for the Curtis having a bare steel finish adds £150 to the price whilst it seems to be a stock option for the BTR so the coat differences increases.

Chameleon looks very good and could be a shortlist option.

Stanton too possibly Al.

I know it’s not a 29er SS, but just another example of what BTR can do with their custom hat on…

https://bikelifeinswedishlapland.com/

So worth thinking about if you want something that’s not quite available off the peg.

anyone describing their frame with the words “deep custom” deserves a proper hoof in the slats.

STOOGE!!!
Come to SSUK17 you might win one in the raffle
https://www.ssuk17.com

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I think the new one must be different. The old one had a rear end with the stiffness properties of reinforced concrete

define ‘old one’. mine’s a 2013, and i’d call that statement out as utter bollocks. sorry. with a 2.4 tyre in the back at 25 psi tubeless i couldn’t tell the difference between the chameleon and the 853 frame that preceded it. the 631 frame that preceded that felt both harsher and heavier. i ripped the headtube off the 853 frame that preceded that, and i couldn’t tell you the difference between that and the same frame in regular cro-mo.
people swear by steel frames, but imo if you want something that weighs about 1 1/2lbs more than it needs to and looks skinny then that’s fine, just don’t pretend that contemporary steel frames offer any ‘twang’ or whatever, it’s disingenuous.

Adjustable dropouts (not ebb)

Why no EBB OP?

Needs an EBB and only 27.2 ST but for £283.50 with discount code it’s not half bad.

I realise you might want something a little more “up market” though. I mean no offence by that, by the way!

I keep being very tempted by one however.

As far as the ebb goes I really have no technical reason to avoid, I guess it’s just a complete lack of familiarity with them as I’ve never owned, used or worked on a bike fitted with one and I’m still stuck a few years ago with the reputation some had for coming loose and creaking. Unfair I’m sure now though.

My stooge is the first/only bike i’ve had with an EBB and it’s been completely ‘fit and forget’ (in both geared and SS guises) which has been pleasing…definitely expected there to be more involved.

I’ve had 5 EBB’d bikes with 3 different EBB systems and none of them have creaked, I think a lot is down to proper installation and lube.

That Onza looks quite nice, not what you were after but glad it’s been posted as I wasn’t aware of it before.

define ‘old one’

Don’t have any photos of my old Chameleon sadly, but it was a Mk1 – so 1998 maybe – and size 14″? The rear end looked exactly like this:

It was the poppiest frame I have ever ridden (and I’ve owned a few BMXs) and flexed about as much as an RSJ.

Have a look at the new versions of the Niner Air 9 and Sir 9 – updated geo and both ss with their new PF30 ebb.

http://www.ninerbikes.com/Niner-Bikes

even O-O stick the brake hose out of the way

whoa there. I was with you on the BTR thing. but i have to call you out on this.

I’ve had inbred 26 & 29, 456, scandal & a pompino. Only the 26 inbred had all the right cable guides in the right place. The rest of them are all rubbish.

al2000 – Member
Alright Stu, considered a Stanton Sherpa? SS dropouts are an option.

That’s what I’m riding and it works really well as a singlespeed. I also have an Inbred 26er ss

I like the look of this Soulcraft in the classifieds

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-soulcraft-tradesman-29er-frame-size-small

Sz small though, & £900…

and geared?!?

I’m 6’1″ so it’s not an option in either way.

Ticked for future.

define ‘old one’. mine’s a 2013, and i’d call that statement out as utter bollocks. sorry.

Whooa there young wippersnapper, take a look at the pic finbar posted and tell me which of those 1″ aluminum box section chainstays is going to flex and give any sort of comfort :-p

Apology accepted though.

Got a 26″ Curtis with slot dropouts frame weight is under 4lb, my 29er version is the first one Brian built and that came with ebb, still only weighs 4.7lb, both all 853, both made for me, as I wanted them, that’s what you pay for, a one off

If you do decide the Onza might be an option, drop me a line as i’ve got one for sale. Similar (but nicer) colour to that Stache I had off of you 🙂

Vassago Jabberwocky. Charlie the Bikemonger?

Best steel 29er I have ever ridden, and I’ve had a few….

I was also sceptical about EBBs but the one on my Niner Sir 9 has been faultless for over a year now. It makes wheel changes a sinch and I can run the bike SS rigid in winter and gears and suspension fork in summer.

Morning all. By way of a quick update I’ve just had a secondhand Kona Honzo arrive.

Time will tell if it’s any good (it’s certainly no lightweight) but it’ll give me a base to work on the build and if it’s no good I’ll plump for another frame to swap the kit over to.

Honzo has been one of my favourite frames that I got to test over the past few years. Really fun and capable bike. Stiff too.