For those that Squat, deadlift and generally pick heavy things up and put them down again, just wondering how you measure your progress or if you even bother?

I am tracking my progress against certain goals based on %bodyweight such as:

Deadlift 1.75BW, SQUAT 1.75BW, flat Bench 1xBW, Shoulder press 0.75BW.

Wasnt sure though whether to monitor progress based on what I am doing for sets of 5-10, or what my 1 rep max is, or track both?

There are some that say you shouldnt even be looking at 1RM’s unless you have been training for around 2 years and have got your technique perfect and I’ve only really been seriously squatting and deadlifting for 3 or 4 months (but doing other lifts before this for about a year)

So right now I weigh 73kg and am squatting 100kg (5 sets of 5) which is 1.4BW, deadlift is 92kg (1.3BW), bench is weak at only 50kg (0.7BW) and needs some work.

Also read that your squat and deadlift should be similar and approx 1.3 to 1.5 your bench?

So just wondering how you track progress or if you even bother, just lift until you cant anymore and repeat?

Cheers

Are you following a training program at the moment? If so which one?
Interesting that your squat is better than your deadlift, possibly you are having form problems with the latter as it seems a little low?
Personally I find 1RM good to use for a little ego boost 😆 and maybe compare yourself against others but I certainly wouldn’t train specifically towards making it better and only test it every couple of months (if that). I would always base my progress on what I am actually doing in my work sets.
You should definitely be tracking your progress IMO. I have a notebook where I work out what I’m going to do every session (before I start, this is key IMO) and then I write down the results. This is also useful for working out when you are plateauing.
Also you don’t mention whether or not you are currently training your overhead press. More important than the bench press IMO, but they complement each other well so it’s a good idea to do both.

I’ve only just got my Deadlift to match my Bench press (95kg)… Front Squat is still a bit behind at 65kg, but then I’ve only been going a few months on Deadlift and Squats whereas been bench pressing on and off for years.

As for measuring progress, the gym has forms for recording all your sets in and they change the routine every few weeks from 3×8 to 4×5 to keep things varied…..

If you’ve been lifting more seriously for 3,4 months maybe a good time for a wee technique coaching session just to check that everything’s on the right track?
Power-lifters will talk the ass-end out of lifting technique, but really you just need a calibration to know that you’re broadly doing things right at this stage. There’s different ways of tackling the bench, for example, that sound like they might help.

The x times BW figures are a useful rule of thumb (probably), but they’re very rough generalisations. Biomechanically you’ll often find you’re more naturally suited to one lift over another.

zilog6128, only my own programme at the moment.

Full body Monday and either Thursday or Friday (depending on how tough Wednesdays karate session is).

Full body consists of:

Squat, deadlift, incline or flat bench (change each week), dumbell rows, pull ups/chin ups (vary wide/close grip), Db shoulder press, back hyper extensions (or dorsal raise or RDL), EZ bar curls (or DB curls & tricep dips. + some abs stuff and buggering about on my olympic rings if I have any energy left.

I only just upped my squat to 100 last night and have a bit of fear about upping the deadlift after I pulled/popped a muscle in my abs a few months ago, so just taking it steady with the DLs. Although before that I did try a 1RM and think it was 135kg ish.

Not sure you can really compare 1RM with others as surely a %BW comparison is a better indication?

i am actually tracking, I’ve got a geeky spreadsheet now but only really started it in the last few months.

how do you tell if you are plateauing?

I am doing the over head press with DBs, but reluctantly as have a bit of a sore shoulder, this needs some work too. Not sure why my bench is so weak either as I am a pretty strong (if little) guy.

footflaps i cant even comprehend benching that much, I struggle with 60kg!! what is the 95kg as %BW?

I Am Not An Expert, but I’ve been taking my training (15 months in now) very seriously and have read plenty of books by people who are. It sounds to me like you’re doing way too much. When I started out with barbell training, I did ONLY the 4 main compound lifts for the first year, and nothing else (except pullups/dips) but I gave them 100%. As I understand it this is the best way for a beginner (realistically anyone training for less than 1-2 years) to progress. Only since January have I started adding in assistance exercises, but the main lifts still get priority.

I would recommend buying the book Starting Strength by Rippetoe from the Kindle store and reading it cover to cover. He describes the correct technique for all the lifts in extensive detail. Obviously if you can afford it then personal tuition is ideal but I found the book (and it’s accompanying videos which you can see on youtube) enough personally. There is definitely something wrong with your deadlift technique if you’re injuring yourself with that kind of weight. Correct breathing is absolutely essential and something that is covered in the book I mentioned. The book also has a training program aimed at beginners although you might find it too much with your karate. I use a program called 531 which I feel is better for fitting in around other activities like cycling, running, etc.

how do you tell if you are plateauing?

Basically if you’re not improving every session like your training plan says you should. This is why a decent plan is essential IMO.

I am doing the over head press with DBs, but reluctantly as have a bit of a sore shoulder, this needs some work too. Not sure why my bench is so weak either as I am a pretty strong (if little) guy.

I would switch to barbell press if possible. If you need to have a bit of physio on your shoulder then get it sorted, you don’t want to injure it. FWIW I sometimes get a sore shoulder whilst dumbell benching, but never whilst barbell benching. 50kg is not terrible if you are doing it for multiple reps, probably you just need to improve your form and master the breathing.

Basically if you’re not improving every session like your training plan says you should. This is why a decent plan is essential IMO.

I must still be improving as I have gone from being barely able to bench 2 x 10kg dumbells to now being able to do 25kg dumbells. Thats taken about a year though, so not sure if that is slow progress of not? My goal really is 1xBW so I need to work up to the 35kg DBs or 70+ on the bar. I am thinking above 30kg dumbells are getting a bit silly though and it has to be the bar?

I will try the shoulder press with a bar, but I really want to do it with my back supported and my bench for some strange reason doesn’t go completely vertical.

It doesn’t matter if the progress is slow, only that you are still progressing. Weight-training is a life-long endeavour! Your goal now is 1x BW but when you hit that (and you will) you’ll want to go for 1.5x!

The only reason to use dumbells for your main exercises IMO is safety. Barbell is preferable but you need squat stands and a spotter at the minimum or a ideally power rack (mandatory if you are working out alone IMO).

Over-head press should be done standing up not seated. Think about it as a whole-body movement, rather than just lifting a weight above your head. If you feel your back is not stable then decrease the weight so your back feels OK and work up from there. Your body is only as strong as it’s weakest part!

How old are you?

I weighed a bit less than you when i started at 19 years old.

My bench was crap too, couldnt get past 60kg for literally years….despite my squat going to 150kg for reps and my deadlift to 200kg for a single!

My upper body strength came with age, as i entered my mid 20’s my upper body decided it was going to join the party….genetics i think and not a huge amount you can do about that.

As others have said, you are doing too much….you’ll make gains for a while (everybody does) but the whole body twice a week when using proper lifts like deads and squats is too much.
For comparison i do two sessions a week, i split them into a pulling session and a pushing session.

Workout one consists of chins, dealifts and biceps….thats it, short and sweet, several sets of chins with varying grips, back nicely warmed up and onto deadlifts, after warm up sets a few working sets and onto biceps doing just one exercise, usually barbell curls.

Workout two consists of dips, benchpress, shoulder presses (machine usually), triceps (usually cable pushdowns)….both sessions i’m in and out in 40mins.

You’ll notice an absence of squats, my legs grow by looking at a squat rack, they get all the work they need from cycling and deadlifts.

When i was a bit more dedicated i trained Monday (deadlifts), Wednesday (Bench) and Friday (squats)….this is plenty if you are going heavy….my body is hurting just thinking about doing these lifts twice a week like you!

A few tips, if you are lifting with a view to entering powerlifting meets then you cant get away from the lifts you’ve mentioned….if however you are training for strength, shape, fun etc etc then dont be afraid to try other exercises….i rarely bench with free weights now as my shoulders are all chewed up, if i do bench then i do dips first to reduce the amount of weight i’ll end up benching….likewise i dont squat at all anymore for reasons i already mentioned….dont get obsessed by these particular lifts.

The mirror is your best friend, ignore the scales and dont always go on what weights you’re pushing (sometimes you will need to cycle your lifts with light weights to rest the body or work around injuries)….if you still look in shape in the mirror then its all good.

Dont be afraid to miss sessions if your body doesnt feel up to it, growth and repair is done away from the gym….weight sessions merely stimulate growth, if you legs still ache then dont squat again…miss the session, eat well, sleep well and lift stronger another day.

I could bore you for hours on this!….i’ve been doing this on and off for 16 years….i flirt with other things (cycling, kick boxing, squash) but i always come back to the weights, the gym is my happy place!

Ive got squat stands with spotters, which I also use for bench press with bar.

Ok I will try over head press standing, tried it before, but I think i can press more than I can curl up from my waist. I would love it if there was a cross fit gym near me as would like to try the snatch and clean move.

Thing is I am not sure how far I will take this training, I am not doing it to get huge, just functionally strong for karate. i.e. i would like to get MMA fighter ripped and not bodybuilder ripped.
I am too small to get too bulky (5’8″) and would look odd if I got huge.

How old are you?

37

I could bore you for hours on this!…

nobody is complaining, and if they are reading this they are interested so feel free 🙂

also if you are doing biceps/triceps, isnt it a good idea to do them together/after each other? i always alternate curls and dips

There are many schools of thought on which muscles should be trained together.

Some favour biceps and triceps together, some take this a step further and do back and chest on the same day too.

I’ve done loads of different routines and have settled on what works for me and my body.
My reason for doing biceps at the end of a back session is because they have already been used in most back exercises so a few sets of curls is all thats needed to work them….ditto for doing triceps at the end of a chest/shoulder session, they have been used in all the pushing/pressing movements so all it takes is a few sets of push downs and they’re fried.

Mine is very much an abbreviated routine to get me in and out of the gym in the shortest possible time, i know i could train a third day and work arms with several different exercises but i’d rather have that evening free to do something else.

Thing is I am not sure how far I will take this training, I am not doing it to get huge, just functionally strong for karate. i.e. i would like to get MMA fighter ripped and not bodybuilder ripped.

The only way you are going to get huge is if you drink a gallon of milk a day, every day. Weight training is about getting strong, body building is something entirely different. I have been doing it for just over a year now, you would not notice any difference at all to look at me (with clothes on!) but my strength has improved massively! IMO being stronger will improve everything for you, cycling, karate, etc. It certainly has for me.

re. the overhead press, it sounds like you are trying to curl the bar up into position and then press it? If so, don’t do this. Put the bar on your squat stands, load it with plates and press it from there. I would really urge you to get the Starting Strength book, or at the very least have a good read of the wiki http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki which covers the basics.

It doesn’t matter if the progress is slow, only that you are still progressing. Weight-training is a life-long endeavour!

This really.

And you have to be realistic, 37 is not over the hill but you’re best days are behind you for recovery. Your progression needs to factor in good recovery times – see here for an opinion I think is spot on.

http://ironstrong.org/index.php?/topic/500-theory-on-progression-for-old-guys/

Also, regarding the deadlift, I think a lot of it is in your head – it took me 5 months training in my 20’s to move from 599.5lb (272.5kg) to 605lb (275kg) simply because of the thought of passing 600. Made better gains after the 600 was gone.

As a side note and related to the age thing, I haven’t lifted for over 20 years but recently started again, can’t bench cos of impingements and can’t squat cos of vertebra damage to my neck/upper back and deadlift is crap (150kg on a good day).

And then some snotnosed kid comes in and is outlifting you in 6 months FFS.

i train to improve in the 10 rep range, so i started at a weight that i could only do 10 reps of. once i can do 12 reps i up the weight slightly and go again, making sure i can do at least 8 reps. then slowly work up to 12 reps and repeat…….

Do any of you see any benefit in changing my workout to a push-pull split and going heavier/upping the reps on each, that way training the muscles harder once a week rather than not as hard twice a week. (not that I am not giving it everything on my current workout, but i am probably fatigues when it gets to the last exercises.

i.e. Monday doing Squat/bench/shoulder press/dips and Thursday or Friday doing dead-lift/rows/pull-ups/back hyper extension/bicep curls?

Any benefits in splitting and going heavier/more reps on each?? giving these muscles a week to recover rather than 2-3 days?

Not sure what bodyweight has to do with anything. Use weight.

One-rep max is the normal measure of progress, but only go for a 1RM every 3 months.

The usual split is around complementary muscle groups, for example:

Monday: Chest, tris and shoulders
Wednesday: Legs
Friday: Back, traps and bis

muscletalk.co.uk is good for a read if you want more background.

http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html – muscle and exercise details
https://www.fitocracy.com/home/ – tracking progress
https://www.strengthcalc.com – programmes

o any of you see any benefit in changing my workout to a push-pull split and going heavier/upping the reps on each, that way training the muscles harder once a week rather than not as hard twice a week.

yes, definitely. Lifting as heavy as possible but then giving yourself time to recover is the best way to progress IMO. Do your big lifts first so you can give them 100%. Have an easy week once a month or so though.

i.e. Monday doing Squat/bench/shoulder press/dips and Thursday or Friday doing dead-lift/rows/pull-ups/back hyper extension/bicep curls?

I would move the shoulder press to the 2nd workout personally and ditch the bicep curls.

Also another controversial question.

flat or incline bench or both or decline too? have a buddy that doesnt do flat at all, just incline as he says he doesnt want man muscle boobs.

i just do flat and incline, one after the other. incline on a shallow angle, 15 degrees or so.

flat or incline bench or both or decline too? have a buddy that doesnt do flat at all, just incline as he says he doesnt want man muscle boobs.

I wouldn’t pay too much attention to your mate in that case 😆

Bit of an update.

Deadlift up to 107kg (1.44BW)
Squat staying at 100kg (1.35BW) for now to improve form (ass to grass before I progress).
Bench up to 58kg (0.78BW) – slowly getting there, hope to break 60kg next week.

I seem to have put on a kilo in the last few weeks though and don’t think its fat either!

Right now my goals are

bench 1.0 x BW
Squat 1.5 x BW
Dead 1.5 x BW

but working towards

bench 1.5 x BW
Squat 2 x BW
Dead 2.5 x BW

i.e a 3-4-5 ratio. (although I think i may always be stronger in squats than deads)

As suggested I think a coaching session is in order before I go any further with squat & deads.

EDIT:

Oh and I have split my workout into push pull and think its much better and feel a lot stronger:

Monday: Squat, flat bench, inc bench, shoulder press, tricep dips & push ups.
Thursday: Deadlift, DB rows, pull ups close grip, pull ups wide grip, barbell row, delt raise, ez bar curls.

now to improve form (ass to grass before I progress).

I’ve just started 1:1 coaching to concentrate on technique. My current session has about 20 mins of stretches to enable me to squat right down (as I’m not that flexible in the hips). Also tried weight lifting shoes for the first time yesterday and they definitely help squatting very low, although it does feel like you’re falling forward a bit.

Only issue I’ve found is I haven’t developed the strength at the lowest part of the squat, so have to reduce the weight quite a bit to manage a proper tecghnique all the way to the floor and back.