molgrips – Member

Some kids will starve rather than give in.

As if they are going to die of starvation.

Let the kids starve and take away all his/her toys etc … you need to reinforce your actions i.e. both parents must send out the same signal.

🙄

I do have a grand idea (although I am sure it won't work) that my girls can have treats in moderation but only if they have a piece of fruit afterwards.

They'll say that's fine, and then say they'll have the fruit a bit later, like when they're 48 😉

Let the kids starve and take away all his/her toys

Chewkw

What do you do once the child in question has lost all of their toys/priveliges etc. When they are sent to their room for misbehaving and all sanctions have been used and yet they still wont comply?

Having been there myself and heard a lot about how other people's kids behave.

We have all been there. When I was first made to excuse myself from the table (we always ate as a family at the table) I refused steadfastly as I was sure my mum would finally give in. About 2 hours later I gave in because sitting at the table in an empty room whilst the family watched the telly next door wasn't much fun.

then say they'll have the fruit a bit later, like when they're 48

I can believe that entirely 🙂

As a kid, I was allowed either butter or jam on bread, but not both at the same time , so all this sounds like luxury 😉

A friend of mine was always made to eat creme eggs at the table. In an egg cup and with a spoon.
😆

What do you do once the child in question has lost all of their toys/priveliges etc. When they are sent to their room for misbehaving and all sanctions have been used and yet they still wont comply?

If a proper structure of reward/punishment is implimented from the outset. The child learns how their actions affect the quality of their life, and the chances of that happening is very very very remote.

If a proper structure of reward/punishment is implimented from the outset. The child learns how their actions affect the quality of their life, and the chances of that happening is very very very remote.

I totally agree – as I said before there will be exceptions but their behaviour is often because of underlying problems such as food intolerances or other external problems (such as bullying at school).

I don't really believe that there are many children that have the ability to mentally beat an adult with real conviction and belief about what they are doing.

To be honest I've been worried I'm too harsh with them so was prolly hoping I wasn't alone.

I worry about this too. My 10yr old son is allowed an hour and a half on the Wii a week, and an hour TV a day. He is also the only kid in his class that doesn't have a DS which seems unfair to him. On the plus side he devours books out of choice and can hold an articulate conversation with an adult.

The way I explain it to him is that I can't just go out on my bike all day, everything has to be in moderation.

very very very remote.

Not really. It depends on various factors many of which are external. I can assure you the structure exists however recently my 13 year old daughter behaved badly and the above instance arose.
My point being its easy fro people to comment from the sidelines either without experience but certainly unable to understand the complexities involved.
Its very simplistic to simply say punish them till they respond! Parents need a broader range of strategies than this.

Not really. It depends on various factors many of which are external. I can assure you the structure exists however recently my 13 year old daughter behaved badly and the above instance arose.
My point being its easy fro people to comment from the sidelines either without experience but certainly unable to understand the complexities involved.
Its very simplistic to simply say punish them till they respond!

One thing, and you escalated to the fullest extent? sounds like you were out of control.

I was served up the same dish for about three or four days in a row for every meal that I refused to eat. Eventually it started to go mouldy (it was the same actual food) and my parents started to worry about my health.

My sister once went six months (as a toddler) refusing to eat anything but drinking yoghurt and apple juice. This kind of thing is not uncommon.

In my case, I had a deep seated food phobia that needed attention. As an adult I have been able to get over most of it by concerted psychological effort and being able to introduce things gradually in a way that I could deal with.

A simple battle of wills was never going to work. I may have been a child but I was still a complex human being – as many if not all kids are.

I'm not sure anyone said punish till they respond.

I think the message is more like hold fast until they do as required.

Problem with kids is they don't know where boundries are so you have to make them really really clear.

just to add in here….

When I was first made to excuse myself from the table (we always ate as a family at the table) I refused steadfastly as I was sure my mum would finally give in. About 2 hours later I gave in because sitting at the table in an empty room whilst the family watched the telly next door wasn't much fun.

I remember my step father trying to make me eat some bread pudding that I didn't want to…

him – right ok then you can sit there all night until you've eaten it.
me – ok then I will. (me left sat at dining table whilst brother everyone else watches tv next door)
him – time now 21:00 'Time for you to go to bed'
me – I can't, you said I have to sit here until I've eaten that and I'm not going to eat it.
him – wallops me round the head, grabs my arm picking me up off the floor in the process, carts me off to the stairs and dumps me back down in a heap on the stairs saying 'you are going to bed, now get up or else…'

circa 1978, I was probably about nine.

Then molgrips you are an exception – you say yourself you had a phobia so your case is one of the exceptions to which everyone accepts there will be.

I'm not sure anyone said punish till they respond.

I think the message is more like hold fast until they do as required.
Agreed – two very different things. Refusing to give in to a child's 'demands' is not a punishment.

OK so the bread pudding thing. Why not? If you don't like it fine don't eat it, in my house you'd have been offered an apple or something. It's not required eating whereas veggies are.

All parents get angry you'd have to be a saint not to and we all make mistakes.

Then molgrips you are an exception

No I don't think so. Why did I have a phobia? They don't just pop up on their own. Perhaps it was because people were trying to force me to eat stuff when I was very wary about it or unsure. So I reacted with stubbornness.

My point is that just flat out holding a line until they do what you want CAN work, but it also CAN be very damaging, and it's not really easy to tell the difference.

My parents did not understand at all the thought processes in my head even when I was a kid.

No I don't think so. Why did I have a phobia? They don't just pop up on their own.

Well they do though – that is pretty much what a phobia is.
🙄

And from what you are posting you had more issues than some kid who decides one day they don't want to eat carrots.

We give my nephew a fruit pudding and a sweet pudding. It works.

Going back to saying no to the lollipop, it's because this woman just handed one over. He does have chocolate and sweets, but on my say so, not when some stranger hands one out. He's allowed one bad thing a day.

The dentist said he has fantastic teeth, then said that the majority of the children she sees have teeth rotten to the core ( as in the programme).

Well they do though – that is pretty much what a phobia is.

No they don't! There's usually a reason for them way back…

And from what you are posting you had more issues than some kid who decides one day they don't want to eat carrots.

Yep and it wasn't recognised even by my parents who are intelligent, sensitive, thoughtful and ex-teachers who received at least some child psychology training.

One thing, and you escalated to the fullest extent?

Thats not what I said and its certainly not what happened. Maybe you need a visit to the naughty step.

I'm not sure anyone said punish till they respond

Really?

Let the kids starve and take away all his/her toys

Apparently the food thing is a survival instinct. You start off young and helpless so will eat anything as it will most likely be given to you by your parents and safe. But as you learn to move around you are exposed to potential dangerous foods so you become a lot more picky and only eat things that are familiar. Most kids grow out of it.

Took me til I was maybe 24 or 25, and I didn't grow out of it was damn hard work.

So am I the only one to change something due to that programme? Mini-aracer wasn't allowed any more milk after brushing his teeth tonight!

I do feel the need to point out that he never eats lollies and there appears to be nothing wrong with his teeth anyway.

No they don't! There's usually a reason for them way back…

like phobias of confined spaces or spiders or beards or flutes or falling man-made satellites? Yes, I am sure there are reasons way back for all of those documented phobias :-/

There’s also a lesson to be learnt from this documentary in that all but one home was, by the look of things, a single parent family.
Meaning that for some, the boys, there was no male role model living at home, no one to do Dad things.
It seems to fall to the Dads in most families (?) to do the discipline and maybe this is where some of the glue is coming unstuck.

Re-emphasising the fact that many of these Mums are finding it hard or too difficult to run a tight ship with the limited skills and knowledge they posses, giving in to the childrens' behaviour. Witness that Grandmother giving the young girl a bottle so soon after seeing her own g'son under the surgoen's knife.

We saw the Mum in the car scrounge a light for her death stick from one of her son’s pals, perhaps again illustrating the severe lack of boundaries that exist between some of these parents (I didn’t believe the child drinker for one moment when he told us he’d stopped drinking either) & their children.

In fact, this thread of tobacco that these families seem to use was clearly demonstrated & specifically isolated by the documentary maker, and in 2010 we are as a nation increasingly aware of the social conditions that seem to be present where adults choose tobacco for their families.

Ti29er – Member
There’s also a lesson to be learnt from this documentary in that all but one home was, by the look of things, a single parent family.
Meaning that for some, the boys, there was no male role model living at home, no one to do Dad things.

Mrs MFL commented on exactly the same thing, I think that there may have been 2 father figures shown, one of which was the knob who didn't accept his smoking addiction had any effect on his kids health.

That teenagers mum (the drinking 13 yr old) was truly a silly bint, the bit about him not srinking anymore made me laugh, he's probably on skunk now instead!

The parents in the documentary are at the far end of the scale. By definition their behaviour (and subsequently its effect of their childrens health) has led to them being featured in a documentary.

I dont see myself in any of these examples but there are times when I (and I suspcet all of us parents) have regretted the way we have handled a situation, maybe getting angry or irritable, or being insensitive and reacting innapropriatly. These things dont harm our children (as long as our irritability or insensitivity doesnt manifest itself in behavour that could frighten injure or intimidate) we should be more concerned with "consistency of care"

If I am irritable during an evening because work is particularly stressful my children dont assume I have changed or become a "bad" parent they normally react by calling me grumpy!

Its important to remember that bringing up children is difficult and nobody gets it right all of the time. Hopefully my mistakes will only have caused a few tears and tantrums as oppose to a psychologically scarred adult!!!

being insensitive and reacting innapropriatly. These things dont harm our children

I dunno – my mum was very over-anxious and neurotic at times, resulting in bouts of anger and tears, and it upset me more than I could possibly describe. It made me into an anxious lil kid, it's taken me many years to try and address it. Kids react to things very differently to adults, due to a lack of perspective and experience I think. I mean, how long does it take before you realise your parents aren't the rulers of the universe, just a couple of people muddling through life with their own problems, fears and inadequacies…

God I hope they're never going to read this thread! 🙂

Molgrips you are taking my comments out of context and I think we are dancing on the head of a pin.

The point I was making is that we have periods where we do things that we regret as a parent, raising our voice for example. If this is the way you speak to your child all the time then of course thats wrong but if we do it very occasionaly then it probably has the desired affect. Hopefully the child will not be "damaged" by the .01% of time you raise your voice as their personality will be balanced by the 99.99% that you have a loving relationship.
The example you give is far more serious than the example I was trying to get across.

[/quote]These things dont harm our children (as long as our irritability or insensitivity doesnt manifest itself in behavour that could frighten injure or intimidate) we should be more concerned with "consistency of care"

You could quote me in full.

Sure.

You did seem to say that it doesn't matter if you fly off the handle slightly from time to time. I think it could do. Even once could be worrying depending on the situation and what you do, how different it is from normal, and how you react to your kid. And the personality of your kid.

In short, it depends on a lot of things 🙂 And what you need is true sensitivity and the desire to really understand your kid as a person… As I am sure many people on here do.