Poor targeting, reflective surfaces, “slippage”, etc.
Even though the laser is stupidly fast in its return signal, there is still too great an error correlation hence the type approval and the ACPO guidelines clearly stating how they must be used.

The case of my mate down the pub?

About time the traffic laws were reviewed rather than used as another taxation for the unobservatant driver who drifts over speed limits put in place decades ago

You didn’t “drift” over the limit – you deliberately broke it by a considerable margin.

So suck it up.

But there are so many different devices, a ruling that a particular method of using a specific device was incorrect would not automatically apply to every other device. Usually, when there is a judgement that far reaching then the information is circulated nationally so the police everywhere know about it. So I can’t help but wonder if this was a ruling that applied to a specific situation? If you’re able to find a link to the case, or even the name and year, I’d be interested in reading the rulings.

The case of my mate down the pub?

until we hear a source I’d put my stake on that.

About time the traffic laws were reviewed rather than used as another taxation for the unobservatant

oops, you called it a tax, you lose the thread, but you do gain a speed awareness course/3 points.

Radar Speedmeters are typically used as hand-held devices all of which are attended actively operated devices.
The speedmeter is aimed at the target vehicle at the front or rear with the radar beam being directed towards a target vehicle.
The vehicle will need to be tracked with the aiming sight to allow the instrument to make a satisfactory speed measurement of the target. Tracking of the vehicle should be maintained for a period of not less than three seconds wherein the speed of the target vehicle is indicated as being a steady speed that is in the opinion of the operator the speed at which the vehicle is being driven. The speed can either be constant or show an accelerating or decelerating reading that is commensurate with the operator’s observations. When satisfied the reading
is representative of the observations made the speed is locked into the device and recorded.

Not seen a radar gun for years, just lasers. Much more accurate targeting.

thegreatape – Member
But there are so many different devices, a ruling that a particular method of using a specific device was incorrect would not automatically apply to every other device. Usually, when there is a judgement that far reaching then the information is circulated nationally so the police everywhere know about it. So I can’t help but wonder if this was a ruling that applied to a specific situation? If you’re able to find a link to the case, or even the name and year, I’d be interested in reading the rulings.

Thats the issue – where the expensive lawyers get involved they will spend the money gathering all of the info, etc.
Joe Public can’t afford that so pays the fine, gets the points.
I’ve personally seen the different devices being used, operators being trained, etc through work/friends and the differences are staggering in how they can/do read with tripod/handheld/vehicle.

Drac – Moderator

The case of my mate down the pub?

Your mate could be dead by now from self inflicted alcohol poisoning so is really a none issue surely? 😆

I bet you want some published scientific journals to even start a conversation, yes? 😯

mikewsmith – Member

WTF! Complain about people doing their job?

That’s exactly how the bureaucrats will response. i.e. I work here and this is my job. A form of power play.

There are people doing job right and there are people deliberately attempt to use rules and job to exert power in a petty way.

😯

You two up there read the sign ^^^

Did someone just fart?

So did the OP get the sympathy advice they were looking for?

Drac – Moderator

Did someone just fart?

You say whaaaaaatt! 😆

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7ELG4ySsRc[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deib3zFjojg[/video]

No way I could see if there was a tripod or not, as the officer was well hidden by crouching behind a barrier. The camera kind of looked like a black video camera on his shoulder if that makes any sense but I couldn’t really tell.

In fact I might suggest to the local force he should wear one of those sniper outfits so he could camouflage himself as a bush and ensure road safety is a secondary concern over securing as many convictions as possible. Maybe they could helicopter him into that position during rush hour to maximise his earning potential without risking any accidents.

In fact, if people can’t see him, then it avoids the sudden braking, followed by looking at speedo which people do when they see a lazer pointed at them. That could be quite dangerous so hiding makes sense from a safety perspective. I’ve convinced myself he was actually doing me a favour by hiding at the bottom of that hill early on a Sunday.

As for the penalty the choice is take a day off work and awareness course at £90 OR a fine (I think £75 but it doesn’t state) and 3 points.

Or take on the system, loose, unless I can afford Oscar P’s lawyers and get saddled with huge bills

Choices choices.

I got busted for doing 40 in a 30 about twenty years ago. Fine, points, had to take documents to the Police station. It was a right ballsache.

Never been caught for speeding since. It’s almost as though the system works.

Edit – and I do like the idea of arguing the toss about speed camera rules with a serving copper up there.

As for the penalty the choice is take a day off work and awareness course at £90 OR a fine (I think £75 but it doesn’t state) and 3 points.

The course is instead of the points, yes, though the fine is £100 now I believe.

Used to be that the course was more expensive than the fine; that’s no longer the case.

this is sort of my game but not my main area , hand held lasers are approved for use with out tripods fire 60 pulses in a burst which make 60 measurements in 60 milliseconds takes 0.3 seconds to read out . the device software constructs a profile from those measurements which it analyses for consistency . it is not subject to interference bouncing rotating or vibrating targets , Theoretical accuracy is plus or minus 0.35km/h .

I would love to hear of a case that says approved hand held devices have to be tripod mounted.

DT78 – Member

As for the penalty the choice is take a day off work and awareness course at £90 OR a fine (I think £75 but it doesn’t state) and 3 points.

Take the course and whatever you do avoid the 3 points because insurance company will screw you indirectly …

Take the course and whatever you do avoid the 3 points because insurance company will screw you indirectly …

Some insurers (Admiral do, probably others) ask “have you ………..” in relation to the course now as well as points. I just phoned down the list the comparison site gave me untill one didn’t ask the question.

crankboy – Member
this is sort of my game but not my main area , hand held lasers are approved for use with out tripods fire 60 pulses in a burst which make 60 measurements in 60 milliseconds takes 0.3 seconds to read out . the device software constructs a profile from those measurements which it analyses for consistency . it is not subject to interference bouncing rotating or vibrating targets , Theoretical accuracy is plus or minus 0.35km/h .

I would love to hear of a case that says approved hand held devices have to be tripod mounted.

Not disputing that Crankboy – I know just how fast the new stuff takes a reading and how accurate it is on 99% of vehicles.
The issue in Hants was one of tripod mounted devices being handheld and camera vans being placed with completely incorrect signage. Its well known about the fines/points being reversed. Hence the only time traffic here use handheld is on a “driver education drive” where unless someone is WAY over, a wave to pull over and a 2min chat by the roadside is very effective.
I do know of several to do with type approval and motorcycles, frontal area, etc that got really sticky but they are really rare.

The other issue which is perhaps the biggest is that the ACPO guidelines are just that – guidelines.
Even the forces that sign up to them can choose not to follow them if they want – theres f*ck all joe public can do about it unless they want to chance a lot of money and the possible repercussions.
Strange that elsewhere if you sign up to a set of guidelines and agree to follow them they become a legal document but the ACPO ones don’t…..

Are we there yet?
Page 4, I mean.
Almost but not yet.

Aren’t all guidelines ‘guidelines’ hence them being called ‘guidelines’? What guidelines are a legal document? Do they just need to write them on yellow paper?

PAGE 4

Edit : 🙁

Lifer – Member
Aren’t all guidelines ‘guidelines’ hence them being called ‘guidelines’?

Yes – until the point an association and its members sign up to agreeing to follow them and they then are usually deemed to be a “Code of Practice”.
With any guidelines you agree to follow – you have to show very good cause as to why to chose to not follow them when you have agreed to – vicious circle and one that ACPO regularly ignore….

“You need to look at if he had it on a tripod – if he didn’t then legally the reading is VOID.
It MUST be secured to prevent movement.
They can ONLY use a tripod outside of a vehicle or the support that uses the door/windowframe inside the vehicle.”
It would have been clearer had you said Tripod mounted devices must be on a tripod, as your original post seemed to suggest readings from all devices were VOID if not on a mount , which goes against the massive use of hand held devices.

crankboy – Member
It would have been clearer had you said Tripod mounted devices must be on a tripod, as your original post seemed to suggest readings from all devices were VOID if not on a mount , which goes against the massive use of hand held devices.

Valid point CB – handheld are used so little here and in my experience of the forces I work with is that they shy away from them on purpose to remove any doubt.

Edit: page 4 😛

Damn you Hammyuk! Just one post out with my great gag about page 4 and you come along and steal my thunder 😀
Back to the OP, suck it up and move on, life’s too short especially when you know that you’re in the wrong.

Ladies and Gentleman we now have a new catchphrase. “The Tripod Defence” When you say something but are then proved wrong, you can claim “I was talking about something else” or The Tripod Defence.

Ridiculous.

They wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.

By issuing a speeding ticket to any driver who is caught speeding eg breaking the law, that person will and should keep a check on their driving and whats happening in front of them, also they usually tell their mates family, they got caught, and have some daft excuse, eg had to speed past a dangerous swerving driver,etc, or they tell their mates and family i got caught, and im now going to be extra careful,,as i dont wabnt further points, and i definately dont want to injure a fewllow road user.

Speeding is like parking on yellow lines, eventually you get caught,

Ladies and Gentleman we now have a new catchphrase. “The Tripod Defence” When you say something but are then proved wrong, you can claim “I was talking about something else” or The Tripod Defence.

I was thinking the same as I was reading it