Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 41 total)
  • Specialized 27+ review
  • flossie
    Free Member

    This is a paragraph from a review of an s-works stumpy 27+ bike….

    Bootleg Canyon is filled with endless minefields of embedded momentum-killing rocks but this time around, they were completely erased as if they weren’t even there, wholly swallowed up by the bulbous casings. Smaller trail debris is absolutely erased and whatever remains is adeptly handled by the suspension travel.

    Surely if all the roughness of the trail is ironed out you may as well be on Tarmac.
    I’d be interested to hear your options on this.

    Floss

    johnnystorm
    Full Member

    It won’t be though, will it. The problem is with the reviewer and their hyperbolic style, not the bike. Probably, I don’t believe it’s so capable as to be that Good.

    jimjam
    Free Member

    Whilst I realise that there’s an asshole for every seat, this one isn’t for me. Aside from what ever compromises that will need to be made to geometry the main problem will be wheel and tyre weights approaching DH territory with none of the strength.

    So you’ll have a big increasing in gyroscopic effect, slower acceleration, slower deceleration, no tyre stiffness (as they’ll presumably be flimsy light singly ply) and more rolling resistance.

    If I want or need extra grip and extra compliance from my tyres it’s because I’m riding somewhere challenging and I’ll also need wheel and tyre strength which this will lack. Conversely if I’m doing a 30 miles XC ride I want my wheels and tyres to be as light as reasonably possible which this isn’t.

    Oooooooooot.

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    singlecrack
    Free Member

    Yes yes …but did the trail come ALIVE

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    no tyre stiffness (as they’ll presumably be flimsy light singly ply) and more rolling resistance.

    How does that work?

    jimjam
    Free Member

    What?

    alexh
    Free Member

    36 mile natural ride today on mine. My 29″ ht would have had my ass bleeding, and I’m sat comfy at home with its new 27.5+ wheels.

    It does smooth stuff out, not quite as much as my full sus; but the beauty is the lack of maintenance and a bit more comfort (I’m still recovering from an off a couple of months ago)

    I dont do proper xc, so I have never had lightweight xc tyres. Ive used carbon rims to keep rotating mass down, yes tyres are heavier.

    Slower? probably a touch but in the current conditions I’m not going for kom’s. I’m riding in a different style on it.

    As for rolling resistance, they are far better than expected. Vee tax fatty front and wtb rear, both in 2.8.

    I really like mine

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    I’m guessing the OP rides everywhere rigid.

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    cynic-al – Member
    no tyre stiffness (as they’ll presumably be flimsy light singly ply) and more rolling resistance.

    How does that work?
    jimjam – Member
    What?[/quote]

    Exactly, your statement makes no sense.

    jimjam
    Free Member

    cynic-al

    Exactly, your statement makes no sense.

    Which part? That a 3″ tyre will have more rolling resistance than a regular tyre or that a 3″ tyre weighing 1000 grams will be more flimsy than a 2.3 tyre weighing 1000 grams ?

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    I’d be looking at the bit I quoted.

    somafunk
    Full Member

    The increased rolling resistance/weight of 27+ is pretty minimal (according to schwalbe anyway)

    rickon
    Free Member

    All this makes me lol. The benefits above were realised by 29ers, which are now out of fashion somehow.

    27.5+ feels like something for riders who are bored by their unchallenging riding and need to make it more interesting.

    I’m also out and will never go near 27.5+

    jimjam
    Free Member

    somafunk – Member

    The increased rolling resistance/weight of 27+ is pretty minimal (according to schwalbe anyway)

    Well at least they are completely impartial.

    somafunk
    Full Member

    Rolling resistance of a tyre has more to do with the compounds used and the method of construction than the width which has negligible effect (according to Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly) 😉

    EDIT : My participation in this discussion has absolutely zero connection to the fact that i’ve ordered a 27.5+ bike (before ever riding one). 😀

    By the reviews i’ve read and from speaking with folk that use/sell them (bothy bikes amongst others) the 27.5+ size is of genuine benefit so that’s good enough for me.

    unknown
    Free Member

    So when I stuffed the biggest tyre I could fit on the back of my GT Timberline, and had a big DH tyre up front, in about 1997… that was 26+ then was it?

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    So when I stuffed the biggest tyre I could fit on the back of my GT Timberline, and had a big DH tyre up front, in about 1997… that was 26+ then was it?

    Nokian Gazzalodi FTW!

    Just not like this…..

    PrinceJohn
    Full Member

    Ooooh lets make more wheel size standards in mountain biking, we’ve only got about 100 headset combinations & about 50 bottom brackets standards, what else can we make tricky for the consumer?!

    benpinnick
    Full Member

    I don’t think 27+ will last. We’re seeing a big trend towards tougher tyres/wheels/bikes and 27.5 doesn’t really fit that bill. Its a bit of a ‘we tried fat bikes and that didn’t sell so how about combining the best of fat/29/27.5/clown/unicycles instead’? I do however think that the ‘new standard’ will settle at around 2.5 > 2.6 with 27 – 35mm rims as the norm. That means 27.5 will be more like 28, pitching it squarely as the halfway between 26 and 29 wheel platform, where it always should have been. It will offer tough tyres at a reasonable weight, strong wheels, and decent grip.

    Tyre wise Maxxis are usually my benchmark in terms of what’s really likely to stick, they seem to control the market more so than others, and they are not looking very + sized at all in their new line up, I guess they just aren’t feeling the demand, but do have a new Wide Trail format coming, which matches what _I_ wanted to see in tyres for 2016.

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    Lollllololol at everyone jumping on the anti bandwagon. Some folk really need to have a strong opinion and to express it.

    jameso
    Full Member

    I do however think that the ‘new standard’ will settle at around 2.5 > 2.6 with 27 – 35mm rims as the norm.

    Agreed. 2.4-2.6 on 30-40mm rims, probably the sweet spot for a lot of riding, on 29 or 27.5 wheels. It’s just a good all-round balance of weight vs contact patch / pressure.

    Del
    Full Member

    JJ, they’ll either be heavy OR flimsy – that goes for the tyres and the rims. Or what is more likely is they’re somewhere in between. go look at the weights of the 27+ tyres that are available. from memory the bonty ( at the lighter end of 27+ i think? ) is ~ 850g? not dissimilar to reasonable tyres that I use on the front of my 26″. the 3″ ‘loddis of old are what? 1500g?
    like all things – choose your poison, burly, light, somewhere in between.
    whether or not this revolutionary development is any use i reserve judgement until i’ve tried it. have you?

    thepodge
    Free Member

    I hate choice

    Stiggy
    Full Member

    whether or not this revolutionary development is any use i reserve judgement until i’ve tried it.

    Nail…head.

    deviant
    Free Member

    It’s hilarious as only a few years ago 2.5 Maxxis High Rollers and Minions were derided as being unnecessary, wannabe DH racer, gnarpoon tyres etc….and now plus sized tyres are gaining traction (excuse the pun)….

    I do think a lot of the new standards we’re seeing are driven by a cycling demographic that isn’t young….the western world is an aging one, middle aged men on bikes want to be comfortable hence the trend towards first 29ers and now plus sized tyres….you could add long travel full suspension to that too, unnecessary for most trail riding but comfort trumps all as middle aged cyclists with disposable incomes drive the market at the moment.

    It is the new golf whether people like that tag or not.

    Anyway, these tyres….honestly hand on heart I can’t think of a situation when I’ve had a super tacky 2.5 Maxxis on the front off my bike and wanted or needed more grip….in the dry tyres like that are phenomenal and in the gloop I switch to spikes anyway….I’ll obviously try one when my LBS gets them in but all I can think of with a 2.8 tyre is how much more drag they’ll be over my current 2.3 Magic Mary (which doesn’t seem to struggle for grip as is!)….bizarre.

    akira
    Full Member

    I’m lusting after a cannondale bad habit, proper wide rims and a lefty. That’s proper + size. Tyres soft and suspension hard.

    jimjam
    Free Member

    cynic-al – Member

    Lollllololol at everyone jumping on the anti bandwagon.

    More laughable to jump behind a completely unproven technology that doesn’t make sense. Any talk from manufactures about wheel weight, wheel strength, gyroscopic effect, acceleration or handling seems to have been completely absent the last few years or drowned out by talk about comfort.

    cynic-al

    Some folk really need to have a strong opinion and to express it.

    God forbid someone would have an opinion or express one that might make other people think twice before spunking money on another soon to be obsolete standard.

    roverpig
    Full Member

    I do however think that the ‘new standard’ will settle at around 2.5 > 2.6 with 27 – 35mm rims as the norm.

    You could be right and this was part of my thinking in ordering a set of “B+” wheels from Cotic to try on my Solaris. I fancy trying the 27.5×2.8 trailblazer tyres but if that doesn’t suit me I’ll be left with a set of 27.5 wheels that aren’t super wide (29mm rear 35mm front) so would work as “normal” trail wheels. Except they’re not boost, of course, so my plans are already in tatters 🙂

    lunge
    Full Member

    Surely if all the roughness of the trail is ironed out you may as well be on Tarmac.
    I’d be interested to hear your options on this.

    This is the reason I ride a CX bike off road. It’s the progression of bikes that has made my local trail boring to ride on newer bikes. But, put a CX bike on them and suddenly they’re interesting again.

    My theory is this:
    Likes trail but wants to go faster, buys bigger bike. Existing trails then become boring so finds newer, tougher trails.
    Wants to go faster on new trails so buys bigger bike. New trails become boring so finders newer, tougher trails.
    Wants to go faster on even newer trails, buys bigger bike… and repeat.

    STATO
    Free Member

    People who are anti 27+ what tyres do you run now? 1.9 FireXCs?

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Full Member

    That means 27.5 will be more like 28, pitching it squarely as the halfway between 26 and 29 wheel platform, where it always should have been

    Isn’t 27.5 more squarely between 26 & 29 than 28 is? Or do I need to resit my GCSE maths?

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    Thanks for proving my point jimjam. Still no answer to my point above?

    bacondoublechee
    Free Member

    My problem with 29+ so far is that to get the benefits of the plus size (grip and smoothness) you have to run very low pressure, as all the adverts back up, however with even slightly aggressive riding, I am forever bottoming my tyre out on the rim. And given that (especially on 29+) a carbon rim is pretty much a must to get a decent weight & stiffness, you don’t want to be doing that!

    If you pump it up enough to stop it bottoming out, you lose all the benefits.

    I guess you could compare it to having too much volume in your shock/forks. Do they make volume reducers for + size tyres to increase the spring rate? 😀

    nemesis
    Free Member

    Just to upset the applecart, I’ve been consistently setting PRs on various climbs recently on my 27+ wheels. I didn’t really expect that. They’re unquestionably a bit heavier but that doesn’t actually seem to be making any real world difference.

    I’ve used them on a hard tail and fully rigid. It’s noticeable that even riding fully rigid, I can ride moderately rocky/bumpy trails at the same speed as those on full sussers which has been another surprise.

    And I realise that I’m starting to sound like a b+ evangelist but I’m increasingly sold on it, to a point that I’m seriously considering whether I really need my 29er wheels at all other than because one of my bikes won’t take a b+ at the back.

    I got b+ wheels as I thought they might be good fun. They are that but they also might just be faster than my normal 29er ones.

    FWIW, my b+ wheels are the same radius as one set of 29er wheels with fairly skinny 2″ mud tyres and about 7mm smaller than the other wheels with more standard sized tyres.

    jameso
    Full Member

    Deviant, I guess you’re looking at this from a DHer perspecive. That’s not where + tyres are pitched, the casings, tread etc are different. It’s about faster-rolling wheels, not slower. Grip is pretty impressive in places for a tyre that can roll across choppy ground so well. It works here, works with 28c vs 23c on less than perfect tamac, same way as a susser can be faster in XC. All depends on what you want a bike to do and feel like though. I’m not fully sold on it as a magic solution etc but it’s got some great characteristics, too much of some maybe.

    a completely unproven technology that doesn’t make sense

    The dynamics of a rolling wheel is pretty well studied. It backs up the claims made about bigger tyres in general, even if marketing may exaggerate or bias the basic truths in favour of selling an identifiable format for a new model year, etc

    nemesis
    Free Member

    b+ wheels are nothing to do with DH. That’s the point. They’re not big DH tyres with multiple plys, etc. They’re scaled up trail tyres and roll as such.

    rOcKeTdOg
    Full Member

    Same old prejudices being trotted out that we yawned at over 29″ + 29+ mostly by the same people who probably still aren’t basing their opinions on experience of actually riding the different sizes.

    I’m looking forward to trying 27.5+ with an open mind, an unheard of concept on this forum I know

    Kahurangi
    Full Member

    Just to upset the applecart, I’ve been …

    Oi you and your real-world experiences, get out. This thread is about knee-jerk reactions, unqualified hearsay, dodgy physics and a big-hitter style argument rumbling on in the background as usual.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    Yeah, sorry about that 😉

    alexh
    Free Member

    And just to add my 27.5+ rolls better than my Bronson sitting on its maxxis hr2’s. Quote a lot better after riding them back to back yesterday.

    Go try one, I think as a do it all bike on a ht it makes a lot of sense.

    Seems wasted on a full sus

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 41 total)

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