…the most considerate towards cyclists I have ever come across. It was a pure joy to ride there.

Does anyone know why this should be? Is it how they’re taught or just something in the national psyche?

I was on an MTB holiday in Spain about 9 years ago, bimbling on an uphill road stretch between trails when I car came up behind, all horn and yelling. Being British and used to abuse from drivers I was about to ‘return the favour’ until I realised they were encouraging me 😀

I’ve had three instances of drivers actively trying to run me off the road in the last month in London, to the extent I’m seriously thinking of bailing and selling my roadbikes for a new full suss instead, so more Spanish immigrants to the UK please!

Just come back from the Basque region and found the same thing. The answer I got was that it’s because if the driver isn’t a cyclist, their brother, or son, or father is. Therefore, cyclists are seen as real people as everyone knows cyclists personally.

Also, the police take it seriously as well. That makes a big difference.

There are much better laws there too – one being presumed liability, one being that a peloton is treated in the same way as you’d treat a large vehicle – ie once the front of the peloton is on a roundabout or through a junction, the rest of it can follow no matter what.

Also, you know how every youth in Spain bombs round on a decrepit moped with no helmet? Well they very quickly learn that falling off those or crashing into cars hurts so when they become car drivers, they look out for mopeds and therefore cyclists too. Cos they know from experience how unpredictable the riders can be and how much it hurts!

And here’s a road safety video they did:

There are much better laws there too – one being presumed liability, one being that a peloton is treated in the same way as you’d treat a large vehicle – ie once the front of the peloton is on a roundabout or through a junction, the rest of it can follow no matter what.

At our committee meeting for my road club we had a discussion about this, because I’ve been criticised for riding ‘too primary’. As a club, we couldn’t get consistent agreement on whether to single out or double up, even though doubling up shortens the overall length of the group.

If, as a club of experienced and considerate riders, we can’t get agreement, it’s not surprising UK drivers are massively ignorant.

I think we need a bigger national conversation about acceptable norms of cycling behaviour so a) cyclists can agree on what’s best or not and b) drivers know what to expect and how to drive around cyclists

The UK treats cyclists on the roads so badly, that pretty much anywhere on the continent is a pleasant surprise by comparison.

Brooess. Is there not a British Cycling recommended approach to group riding that BC affiliated clubs are expected to comply with? Surprised if there isn’t.

+1 for Onzadogs answer. It’s what I’ve been told when discussing it here in Tenerife. I’ve had cars wait for ages to be able to give a full lane width to pass us when in the UK they’d have been past with half an inch to spare without a thought.

I live in the Basque country. Drivers are very considerate when there is a clear road for them. When there is a risk of them being delayed you may as well not exist. (this is not 100% of the time of course but I dont find Spanish drivers in general to be better or worse than UK drivers).

I played a wee game coming down the col du Somport into France. As each car passed me I tried to guess if it was French or Spanish by the passing style.

I did it for about 40 cars and only got three wrong all of which were French cars passing carefully. By the bottom of the pass we’d been cut up by several Frenchies and one had hit my missus with a deliberately thrown apple.

Couldn’t make it up.

Over a quarter of a century at an average of about 10 000km a year on French roads and I’ve never had anything solid thrown at me. I ride in both France and Spain and find them about equal in terms of driver behaviour. Spanish truck drivers are definitely worse than their French counterparts and the Portuguese truckers are expletive deleteds.You were unlucky, or wearing a Team Sky/motorola/US postal jerseys or riding Treks.

in Spain motorists by law have to give 1.5m clearance to cyclists. There are signs nr me on a popular roadie circuit – I have a picture of one but don’t know how to post it here.

In 11 years of cycling in Spain I have had 1 near miss – the driver got of his car to shake my hand & apologise. He knew I could have called the police & had him charged for dangerous driving.

Above posts are correct, you get massive respect as a cyclist & even get charged less in the cafes.

I’ve had three instances of drivers actively trying to run me off the road in the last month in London

See.. I can’t understand how this would happen – never happened to me. Are you doing something to piss people off?

Molgrips – regular theme on these threads from broess, all drivers are deliberately attacking him I seem to recall.

Which may be true, yet people like CFH commute and ride in London and report no such incidents. Strange place, that London.

See.. I can’t understand how this would happen – never happened to me. Are you doing something to piss people off?

It’s damn scary when it happens… in each case I didn’t know the driver was there until they were dangerously close so there was absolutely nothing deliberate on my part or even any interaction to provoke it.

News stories and other rider experience tells me I’m not alone of course…

I suspect that riding primary is seen as provocation by some however. But primary is recommended position for your own safety and visibility (by Bikeabilty, BC and John Franklin in Cyclecraft) so it’s lose/lose really.

First time I was about to turn right at a t-junction from a residential road into main road and nearly got hit on the left by a close pass. Driver stops, opens his door and starts yelling at me to get out of the way. Couple of ‘large gentlemen’ who were trying to cross the road, nearly got hit themselves and saw the whole thing told him to get lost – which he did.

Second, was being tailgated through Peckham by a Transit – less than 2m off my back wheel at c 20mph down a road with repeated pinch points. I saw a ramp in the pavement and got off the road – the slightest error from me and he’d have been driving over my head.
To be fair, as he passed me I called him a **** and got out to have a word. I buggered off across Peckham Rye Common. But the aggression started way before that…

Third, a cab on a busy road round the back of Oxford St – lots of cyclists, vehicles and pedestrians. I was riding along c 20mph overtaking a stream of cyclists and suddenly felt a vehicle very close behind me – again really really close, less than 2m I guess. Again I just got out of the way – it felt too dangerous. His response: turned to look at me, took both hands off the wheel to give me a slow handclap and told me I didn’t own the road… if anyone had been in front he’d have mown them down.
I guess he had a problem with me not riding in the gutter… but as per the van, there was absolutely no interaction until I felt him tailgating.

And this isn’t mentioning the time I stopped at an amber and then heard a car coming up fast behind me. Moved off the road damn fast as he stood on his brakes. I then sat at the red while he yelled at me through the window. Amber means stop. If I’d not heard him and hadn’t moved so fast I don’t think I’d be here…

So riding primary/overtaking and stopping at amber appear to be getting me into trouble… which is why I’m seriously considering stopping riding on my own and only with my club (safety in numbers, although that brings out its own responses from some drivers too)

Or ditch the road entirely and go back to MTB

Molgrips – regular theme on these threads from broess, all drivers are deliberately attacking him I seem to recall.

You weren’t there so please don’t judge. And you’re exaggerating about any suggestion I’ve made about “all drivers attacking me”. I’ve never claimed that. The vast majority of drivers are getting better in my experience, but I don’t keep a tally of events and post them on here every day!

I’m hardly the only cyclist to be on the receiving end of aggression. As yet, I’ve never been knocked off or hit.

I did my Bikeability in Feb – Level 3 where you go out one on one with an instructor who rides behind you and tells you what you’re doing right and wrong. He gave me full approval and said if anything I was being too hesitant… I think his view is rather better informed than yours…

You might want to read this.

House of Commons Transport Committee

[/quote]14. The Road Danger Reduction Forum stated that the main danger to cyclists was the behaviour of drivers, whether they were behind the wheel of a lorry, car or bus.31 For this reason, the most effective way of increasing cyclist safety was viewed as changing driver behaviour.32 The not-for-profit research company, Road Safety Analysis, endorsed this view, concluding from an analysis of DfT statistics that most crashes resulted from human error.33

What I can’t comphend is what flips in the mind of previously reasonable Brits when they encounter a cyclist.

A couple of Sunday’s ago I was riding up the A621 from Baslow towards Sheffield near the top. This is wide road across the moor with good sight lines. I was riding next to my mate 2 abreast. This prompted an upper middle aged woman in the passenger seat of a car to wind down her window and shout at us for riding 2 up.

So at worst this car had been “delayed” by 10s while they checked it was safe to pass us. But this prompted the sort of antisocial behaviour that would be socially unaccepatble in any other context but is seen as the thing to do when encountering a cyclist “in your way”.

The only conclision I can come to is that British people are **** [insert appropriate slang for ladies privates here]

The only conclision I can come to is that British people are **** [insert appropriate slang for ladies privates here]

Flowers?

I do think that it is another symptom of the me me me attitude that has been getting pushed onto UK society since the 80’s.

^^ I’ve had that jfletch, me and a mate riding 2 up along a wide very quiet road (it runs alongside a motorway and either end of the road has a motorway junction so it’s really only used by farmers tractors and the odd car), daft bint gets her husband to slow down alongside us so she can scream at us for riding 2 abreast and holding her up. Funnily enough she could of got by us without slowing down at all as you can see for miles, she actually managed to hold another car up because she insisted on telling us we were holding her up…

I think many Spanish cyclists would be very surprised with the posts in this thread…

Drivers behaviour probably varies between Spanish regions but in general I would not say drivers are very considerate to cyclists.

The 1.5m rule exists, but in UK is similar isn’t it? I don’t think the presumed liability exists in Spain though,at least I’m not aware of it.

Re mopeds yes, they are so common that car drivers look out for them and therefore cyclist.

MSP – fatcha’s fault, innit?

I think many Spanish cyclists would be very surprised with the posts in this thread…

Context – my experience was on quiet roads mostly in Catalonia

There are some nasty pieces of work behind the wheel wherever I’ve ridden a bike. Thankfully they are a tiny minority in most places, and you can ride for years before you come across one or meet three in a month.

Even on a recent off-road walk through Spain we came close to being mown down by a member of a generally disliked minority thrashing a small hatch down a narrow gravel path with high hedges either side. We were walking with a Spanish couple – the Spanish guy’s rant against said minority was music too my ears but would have earned him a lifetime ban on here. Too much dust to get the number and it was probably stolen anyhow he said.