I’m in a bit of a quandry. I have a late mk 2 Soul and want a dropper. I’d decided on a KS Lev, pricey at £330 ish but that’s what they cost, Stif have them in and driving to Harrogate on my way home is a lot easier than messing with imports.

Then my brother dropped a bomb round my plans. Why not sell the mk2, buy a mk 3, carry the build kit over and fit a much cheaper Reverb, with potential for tapered forks later? That obviously (!) led to wondering about Soul 27.5’s or BFe’s too (27.5’s for percieved future proof and BFe’s for a cheaper way of doing it)

I’m a bit worried that the BFe in particular will feel a bit too much like the Chameleon I already have and not have the springy must-pop-off-that-thing-THERE! that I love about the Soul (among other things) but I can borrow a BFe frame to build up and have a play with over Christmas.

Is this a Ron Burgundy “that escalated pretty quickly!” in progress, or actually a sane idea? Obviously the 27.5/650 idea will be the most expensive as it’ll involve a fork and some wheels and tyres as well as a frame and a dropper…

How much is a decent Orange Soul Mk 2 frame in Medium worth now, anyway?

get the 27.5 and run it with your wheels and fork for now with the new dropper.

Upgrade the forks next…then the wheels.

You could spend a few hundred on the dropper for current set up, or probably 4xthat to get a 27.5 built up and it would probably feel very very similar….

In my very humble opinion.

Had a mark 2, loved it, bought a Bfe as I wanted a dropper and it was cheaper than the soul, but it wasn’t as good as the soul, generally felt way too stiff for the long days I loved on the soul, so I went and bought a mk3 soul. By which point, it’s been CEN’d and has lost a little of the lively rear end springyness that the mk2 (and mk1 I had before it) had.

I still love my soul, but understand that the back end had to be stiffened up for the bigger seatpost.

Iainc, that’s kindof what I’m worried about – that it’s possibly a dumb idea. The saving on the dropper and then potential sale of the existing Soul should go most of the way to a new Soul with the imperfect pain pricing deal, but then there’s a set of wheels and a fork.

I hadn’t considered the possibility of running the 26″ forks and wheels though… I suppose that ought to work ish.

Nobeer… that’s the other thing that worried me… Although I think it’s probably the seattube itself that’s making the most difference.

:/

Why not sell the mk2, buy a mk 3, carry the build kit over and fit a much cheaper Reverb, with potential for tapered forks later?

I did exactly this! (Well, I upgraded the drive train too but then most of it was pretty much dead by that point.) This was before all the 650b kerfuffle, though. Been riding it about two years now, and it’s the best bike I’ve ever owned by a mile. If I had to sell all but one bike, I’d keep the Soul.

The non-tapered steerer isn’t really noticeable to me (and I do have one on my FS), I dunno, perhaps the tapered headtube still has a benefit? Getting a decent dropper on there was definitely a very good move, though, the old 27.2mm HiLo one did the job, but a Reverb is much slicker.

I keep toying with the idea of getting a 29er HT, but the main reason I haven’t is I can’t bring myself to part with the Soul. It just keeps on making me smile.

To confuse you even more there some 27.5 frames discounted,

“There’s been some confusion around the Soul275 frames finally coming back into stock over the last couple of weeks which we want to clear up.

As you might be aware we’ve been out of stock of Soul275’s for quite a few months as we worked through some supply problems, the result of which was that we felt the fastest way to get frames back into stock was to have them modified and re-finished here in the UK. They’ve been brought up to 2015 spec with top and down tube gussets which improve the durability with 140mm forks, and all frames will have these from now on.

The frames have been finished in custom colour matched powder coat with vinyl decals over the top. This is familiar to us as it’s how we started out back in 2003 when Taiwan paint quality wasn’t what it is now. This process is tough, durable, and we think it’s good looking too. Unfortunately the feedback from our first customers of these frames, and our dealers who are used to our usual finishing technique feel that it’s not quite befitting a Cotic frame. Up close it’s not as smooth and crisp as the wet paint/decals under laquer finish we get from our Taiwanese supplier, and if our customers aren’t happy, then we’re not happy. As a result, the current batch of Soul275’s finished in this way is reduced in price to £400.

We want to be completely clear on this though – these are brand new frames, fully warrantied, with all the support you should expect from Cotic.

What we have found is that our complete bike customers have been very happy with their frames and surprised at the price reduction for the reasons we’re giving. We suspect this is because when a frame is delivered on it’s own, you inevitably get right up it’s chuff and have a good eyeball to it. On this close inspection, the feedback we have had is that the current frames let us down a little, hence the price reduction. However, once you’ve built it into a bike I’m sure you’ll consider you have got an utter bargain as it will look fine.

More Soul275’s finished to our usual standards will be coming in 2015, but for right now how about yourself a tough, durable, billy bargain of a bike?”

I have a BFe bought as it was cheaper than the Soul I was looking at (300 vs 480 at the time in 2012). I’ve never found it harsh and its my do it all inc xc bike. What is say is that as you have a Soul and like it and have no particular hankering after a BFe get the Soul. I’d rather spend money on a frame than a dropper but I’m possibly one of those who think droppers are over priced and unreliable plus I don’t mind stopping to adjust the ride height, an excuse for a rest

I’ve had a 27.2 Gravity Dropper in my Mk2 Soul for almost 4 years. The dropper’s had one proper service in all that time and a lot of use as the Soul was my sole MTB until earlier this year. I think you’d have to pay me to ride MTB without a dropper for any ride longer than 2 hours – less than that and I’ll tolerate having to stand up most of the time!

MTBRob, Yep, I’m on Cy’s mailing list with an X and a mk2 Soul already. I’m working on the basis of the discounted powder helping the arithmetic.

Jambalaya, I hear what you say, but I’ve run a Reverb on my bouncy bike for a couple of years now, and it’s not been a problem. Pretty much everyone I ride with has a dropper of some sort, and forever catching up takes the rest out of stopping to fiddle with your post. I think I’d probably like a BFe, but I think it would be too much like my Chameleon and I’m already struggling a bit justifying two hard tails.

Mintimperial – That’s pretty much what I was hoping to hear. How do you find the back end compared to the Mk2?

To me the 650b soul rides very much like my 26er did- Cy’s done a good job there. I wouldn’t let the ride strongly influence you either way, if I was you.

The geometry of the 27.5 Soul is quite different to the 26, if you were to run a 26 fork and wheels – the BB would be about 20mm lower, wheelbase longer and head angle 1 degree steeper, which I think would rather spoil its characteristic handling. On the right size wheels and fork I’m sure it’s great!

I totally agree about not having a dropper not giving you a rest – you’d just spend every hill killing yourself to catch back up on one of our rides if you’d had to stop to put your seat back up. Amazing how far a leisurely ridden bike can get up a hill whilst you’re having a pause…

So what do you need two hardtails for? 😉

Thinking of selling my mk3 soul frame if you are interested its orange and medium.
Inbox me if you are interested .

CGG… The ‘other’ hardtail is my Chameleon with a set of Fox 36’s. It’s a very different bike although ‘subtle’ and ‘springy’ aren’t really words that come to mind to describe it. Likewise, ‘playful’ unless you include large dogs 😉 I’m sort of half joking about someday getting around to singlespeeding it.

I think it’s time to get the calculator and scratchpad out. There might be a new wheelsize entering the house…

Mintimperial – That’s pretty much what I was hoping to hear. How do you find the back end compared to the Mk2?

Feels the same as the Mk2 to me. If there is a noticeable difference (I’m not convinced there is) I’m not a sensitive enough rider to be able to tell…

Mint: Cool, good to hear.

I’ve been talking to another mate and this seems to have escalated into selling the Chameleon as a full bike as well which opens up a lot of options for the Soul as I won’t feel quite so bad about spending money on it if it’s going to be my only remaining hardtail and there’s a reasonable amount coming back in…

What’s your bouncy bike? What sort of riding are you doing?

Bouncy is a Zesty 314. I like it lots, although I’d made a conscious decision to stop riding the Chameleon everywhere as I wanted to spend more time on it. Riding is Peaks, NY Moors, various woods/forests with a preference to natural singletrack over trailcentre. It’s done trips to the Highlands and Fort Bill with me. The Chameleon has done Enduros with me as well as general trailbike. Soul most of the above but never been raced (not because I didn’t think it was up to it)

The proposed is going to cut me down to a slackened Zesty, a Soul 27.5 and an >X< (which also gets a lot of hammer around the Peaks although I’d probably think twice before taking it down The Beast).

Looking at that, I’m considering something like a shortened Rev RLT Dual position to let the Soul sit at 120 most of the time but with 140 available…

That sounds sensible! My two are my 2010 Soul which has 140s, dropper, 1×10, wide rims and big tyres (it’s basically a BFe style build) and my 2014 Spitfire with 160 Pikes, 27.5 wheels, CCDBA. I use them for pretty much the same things but the Spitfire now does all the away trips and enduro races whilst the Soul does most of the winter riding.

I’d be interested to see how a 27.5 BFe turns out – if you remove the DJ and 4X requirement (because they’re better on 26) then the geometry could be changed to just work with 140-160 forks, so much lower BB, longer reach, steeper seat tube – basically get the BB height, reach and seat tube angle of 100mm forks when on 140mm forks but keep the slacker head angle.

The geometry of the 27.5 Soul is quite different to the 26, if you were to run a 26 fork and wheels – the BB would be about 20mm lower, wheelbase longer and head angle 1 degree steeper, which I think would rather spoil its characteristic handling.

Interested in this. I know its not ideal to run 26″ wheels/fork in a Soul 275 but as a stop gap to upgrading forks/wheel, I’m seriously giving it some consideration. The main difference as I see it is lowering of the BB but not sure where you got 20mm lower from, more like 12mm? Not sure how HA would be steeper and wheelbase longer either, in fact they contradict as a shorter axle to crown fork would mean a steeper HA and a shorter wheelbase and vice versa for a longer a2c.

The Soul 275 geo given on the website is based on a 120 sagged fork, a 20% sagged 120 Reba 650b is 483mm a2c…so, using http://bikegeo.muha.cc/ , sticking some 20% sagged 140 Rev 26″ at 491mm a2c and you get get half degree slacker HA & SA and a 3mm raise in BB (offsetting some of the 12mm drop of using 26″ wheel).

More thinking out loud really but I can’t quite see it as all that bad an idea…it’ll all still work after all, just what you get use to. Hell, ran my Hemlock with Fox Talas that dropped down to 100mm, the BB wasn’t dragging on the ground

vincienup sounds like you to “up” North? shame as if you where near Wiltshire you could test ride the 27.5 that I got.

Rides very much like the the Mk3 26″

Buy a second hand Gravity Dropper and be done with it. 🙂

Sounds like you really want the 650b so go for it. 😉

Hm.

It does sound like a harebrained plan on the face of it, but by the time I’ve bought the new bits I’ll need (frame, dropper, wheelset and nice s/h forks) I reckon I’ll have spent just over £1000.

I’m hoping that rationalising down the collection as above will make a very big hole in that spend and drag it back to around the price of a (not heavily discounted) dropper but with fewer bikes around.

Rob, Cheers for the offer but The Peaks is about as far south as I get without making a special trip. Besides, I seem to have a preorder confirmation in my inbox… Oops. 😉

Ron Burgundy would have been proud.

New 26″ Soul with a Reverb. For sure.
Easily the best use of your money given the options above.

Just rebuilding mine with new wheels and forks.
Yes, I bought new 26″ wheels and forks… but they are to go on the best hardtail frame ever.*

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*not an unbiased opinion

Cheers, Kelvin… I’ve preordered a 275 already and have bits of replacement buildkit in the post though.

I did look at a Mk3 26er, but tbh once I was spending around £650 replacing a 26er, it wasn’t a huge leap to go the extra and part fund by shifting two nice 26ers.

I’m never really going to know til I’ve finished this now I’ve started it, but it was starting to look like there really wasn’t much in it for cost between mk3 and 275. Plus, I’ve always liked that blue and almost bought a BFe in it a few years ago… 😉