Last year I was riding a ti 456 and loved it, it flexed and absorbed (why I sold it I don’t know)
Anyway this year I’m going to build up a 650b hardtail and was looking at the cotic soul, how will the steel ride compared to the ti ?
Ps steel is the only frame material I have never had, didn’t like Ali or Carbon

It all depends on the bike. I reckon that the characteristics of the Soul and Ti 456 in terms of compliance won’t be miles apart, as the 456 is fairly burly. The original Soda (ti Soul) was much flexier than the Soul, although the later ones were more similar. I doubt I would have been able to tell the difference in a blind test.

Weeeellll, I have an ’07 Soul and loved it so much I thought I’d get the (Lynskey built) Soda. That was a mistake as I found that I preferred the way the steel frame rode… the soda was a bit too ‘springy’ (didn’t find it too flexi though, it was more direct transmission wise due to bigger seat tube probably as the solaris feels more direct also).

So (from my own personal experieince) steel will be better (and less springy). HTH

I still have the Soul…

I hated my Soda, and also my Ti 456…so in a twisted sort of way, it seems you’d probably like the Soda and by extension, the Soul.

There’s a 650b Cotic due out this year.

Daffy yeah 650b soul out early May!

Any one else any thoughts on how a steel frame rides compared to ti

I had a ti 456’and wish I had kept it. I have a ragley Ti but it’s no where near as good.

Surely some more of you have ridden both for an opinion???

i had a ti456 and recently replaced it with a stanton slackline, 631.

the ride doesn’t feel much different, the slackline is perhaps a a bit more solid. hits feel slightly dull and solid, compared to the spring of the ti. but its very very close, and could be more down to the weight difference.

in conclusion to me the main advantage of ti is the weight savings over steel, riding feels about the same.

I had a first gen Soul, many years ago.
The ride still sticks in my mind, had several Inbreds & eventually clown wheels, but in terms of feel the Soul had it. My SIR.9 feels a little like the Soul. Bit flexy for some, but I really love the feel.
Never really tried a Ti bike. Would have to be something pretty incredible to wrestle my Niner off me.

Have both Cotics (Steel & Ti) and ride both. The Soul for most riding and Soda for racing. The Soda is more sprightly; faster acceleration and nimble handling but will kick (spring back) on rockier terrain. That said I love riding it and it is my favourite bike (don’t tell the others!). That said I also have an absolute ball riding my Soul, it’s planted and springy but not so much as the Ti so when it comes to rockier terrain you don’t have to worry so much about it kicking back. The biggest difference will be the weight, but then it also depends what you’re building the bike up with as I know there are some very lightweight Solaris builds around.

Haven’t ridden a Ti 456 lately but I’ve had a Soul, Soda, and a Ragley Ti. They’re all a bit different, the Soda is downright bendy, the Soul was springy and the Ragley is more like a damped spring (or, maybe leaf spring vs coil spring? No ping/rebound feeling) All ace, fwiw.

The design of the actual frame is going to be the most important part I reckon and this is about the 3rd different Soul revision since mine.

My Steel Indy Fab was nicer to ride in EVERY way than the Hummer/Soda/ti456 that preceded it. I’m certain it going to be one of those things I regret selling.

Cheers guys, any more thoughts !

As has been said above, geometry, tube diameters, butting/profiling play their part and as I’ve never ridden the same frame in both steel and ti, I couldn’t tell you which felt more preferable for me.

I do have both, a steel and a ti HT and have pretty much always had a steel HT in one form or another. I never really got the P7, it felt a little too stiff for me and yet the 89 Explosif would change its character as soon as it hit the trail from the Tarmac section.

For contemporary comparison, I love the sublime feel of the Hummer, it’s compliant and yet taut, it feels like a softer ride and yet it’s a bike that’s designed to take up to a 130mm fork, so more than a pure XC bike, IMO. My current steel HT is an 07 Ala Carte that I’ve just built up and only a few rides in. It feels more sprightly, which maybe that it’s SS, rather than the 3×9 Hummer, but sprightly that is more than the weight difference, the bike feels more eager, tighter with a higher frequency of buzzyness, also taking into account it’s got an 80mm fork and steeper HA, if you get what I mean?

I love both for their differences, however subtle they may be at times and would not give a definitive result as to which I preferred. On the other hand… Money no object, for me a custom ti HT would be my choice. 😀

Slackalice, yes ti really is my first choice but for half the cost and more, was wondering if it’s actually worth it, with all the good reports over the cotic soul?? Will i actually be able to tell the ride feel difference of either

Cheers guys, any more thoughts !

There seem to be an awful lot more cracked Ti frames out there than steel ones, considering how many more of the latter are sold! My other thought is that the better the fork damping, the longer the crown to ground height, the bigger the tyres, the stiffer the frame needs to be to keep the steering good and the less you’ll feel the subtleties of the frame’s flex and damping.

The back end of my Mk2 Soul feels pretty awesome with a big fat tyre in there. The geometry of the 27.5 version looks great. Incidentally I notice that a UST casing feels better than a normal casing – that extra layer that makes it airtight damps the tyre’s rebound and stops it bucking around so much when you’re pressing on. Tyre pressure is very noticeable too – in comparison my CCDBa’d full-sus leaves me clueless about the rear tyre!

Pass. I’ve not ridden a Soul, even though I had my name on number 007 all those years ago!

People say that they ride really nicely, feel good, yadda yadda. But it’s so subjective, what feels good to one person is dependant upon their previous experience to draw comparisons and how they like their bike to feel, respond, animate.

Have you tried a Soul yet?

There’s been a 650b ti Ala Carte in the classifieds recently… 😉

Sold my Soul a few weeks ago to fund my dream bike of a Stanton Slackline ti.

I loved the Soul but the HA was always a tad too steep and couldn’t get a decent fit.

Typical STW, but the slackline is simply amazing even running 120 forks. Much more assured on decents but not suffering on the ups either. It’s as light as a gnats fart too…but as burly as a bfe. I didn’t think I could have a more comfy ride than the Soul for a HT…but the ti is even comfier.

Obviously this comes at a huge price…but I’m starting to think I could even ditch my FS and have one bike running longer forks.

No not tried the soul yet!!!
As for the al a carte yes I had seen it, also I nearly bought one 3 month ago, but the only thing that stopped me is the head tube being only for 1 1/8″ fork steerer’s and these are getting rarer and rarer to get hold of, so was panicking that in 2/3 years time the frame could become useless?

Do the Stanton ti take 650b wheels ?

No 26…as far as I am aware.

Edit…Sorry didn’t realise you were after 650b

I’ve also been taking a, potentially unhealthy, interest in 650B HT’s for a few months too 😉 There’s not too many about at the mo.

There’ll be quite a few straight steerer forks around for a good while yet I reckon. May have to buy a complete bike for a good set, but then get some outlay back by splitting the bike? Alternatively, my plan is to go Lefty, then head tubes can do whatever they like 😉

I don’t know much about the Stanton, it may have adjustable/swappable dropouts? I’d like Kinesis to make a 650b Sync (or whatever it’s called, the ti one) in medium, it looks like more my preferred HT riding.

Salsa Ala Carte ti. 650b. Lefty. Very nice 😀

27.5 wheels on a 26 is a bad idea unless you can adjust the geometry to get the BB height down to a good place or if the BB height is already very low – so squeezing 27.5 wheels into a dual slalom bike could possibly make it a great trail bike.

Stanton 27.5 thing looks awesome!

Nice bikes:

Indeed! The Stanton looks a hoot to ride and I love the green it has in the pic 😀

I feel it’s too soon from a previous thread to post a pic of a Funk La Ruta, just to bring the ti into view 😉

I like the idea of a 650 HT and look forward to seeing how you get on jrm 🙂

The 650b Stanton is proper slack…66.5 I think. The green is even better if you view pictures of the sherpa.

Bit heavier though.

I have a ‘classic’ 26″ soul as my XC trainer and one of the aforementioned A La Carte Ti that remains a 26″ bike. They are set up pretty similar but the Salsa has a Ti seatpost.

The Soul is great – I absolutely love it. It’s pretty commfortable but not quite so smooth as the A La Carte. Mud tyres shake me more on the Soul than the Salsa.

How much of that is down to the Ti seatpost in the A La Carte I don’t know but the Salsa is more comfortable just not full Ti frame RRP more comfortable. I got mine from Triton at a knockdown price. Having compared the 2 now I’d take a Ritche 650b and splash for a Syntace flex seat post.

There seem to be an awful lot more cracked Ti frames out there than steel ones

I’m not sure if it isn’t that people tend to post more about them, on the basis they paid more in the first instance and it’s a ‘frame for life’ 🙂

I ride a skinny Duster and a Ti456, and I reckon it’s far more down to tube size and butting than material per se. I like them in different ways, the weight differential is the main difference and even that is debateable on high end steel.

How much of that is down to the Ti seatpost in the A La Carte I don’t know

Also down to how much is sticking out – the charge is a bit small for me so has a lot of Thomsons finest exposed. That on top of the pencil thin stays make it really springy.

I have one of the original ti456s (Lynskey). Brilliant bike, but a bit flexy in the front – not that I noticed until I rode a c456 for a month… wanted a stiffer front end, but didn’t want the Evo geometry, and the old geom isn’t available anymore :-(. A Soul with 140mm forks is the same geometry, so I took the gamble. Brilliant frame too! Cushions the back easily as well as the ti, but much stiffer front end. Loving it more every ride (6 months in now). Other than the front end there’s bugger all difference in ride quality.

I will be using ti post anyway and ti bars
So looks like the soul 650b is on order
I’ll let you know what it’s like

i havent ridden a whole load of different bikes but the more i do, the more i come away impressed by how good my soul is. With a dropper, short stem and wide bars at 120mm it will keep pace downhill with plenty of the full sus boys around here and kick their arses going uphill, it’s forgiving yet nimble, agile yet smooths the trail.

My experience is that they are most definately worth the hype!

I had an early Soul and an early Soda, the Soul was by far the better ride. It also didn’t crack in several places which made it somehow more endearing.

Can’t comment on any of the later ones though.

@adsh, many thanks for that, I like your thinking re the Ritchey, I’d forgotten about that one!

I really must try to ride some more bikes 😀