Midnighthour…reckon you have some very serious issues which need addressing, but I don't think having a go at Ton is quite the way forward. Completely out of order.

I've read this thread with hugely mixed emotions. My own Dad died 19yrs ago when I was 25. He died a long slow painful death from cancer. We were very close at the end of his life.
HOWEVER, this does not take away from the fact that I spent the first 24 yrs of my life completely terrified of him. He was a very domineering, Victorian style father who had extremely high expectations of his kids. When I got my 2:2 degree for instance, he told me I was second rate with a second rate degree to match!
I have spent the last 19 yrs in and out of counselling as the result of his attitude to me, and also my mother's apathy, standing by and allowing him to behave the way he did.
SO…yes I agree with 2unfit2ride…you just have to get on with stuff.

Ironically, the thing that upsets me most is that my kids don't have a Grandad, and he would have adored them!

I now have a very uneasy relationship with my Mum. She can be very cold and is not big on showing affection. She blames this on her own relationship with her parents!!! ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!!!!
I was shown very litte love and affection when growing up, but have a HUGE capacity to show it to my own kids. I have tried every which way to get my Mum involved in my kids' lives but she just isn't interested. It breaks my heart, but I have reached a point of giving up.

I think I've completely lost my way in this post now 😯

To the OP…that song makes me cry too…I so wish I could tell my Dad how wrong he was about me and that I have made a success of my life! But at the same time I have an immense feeling of love and loss for him too!!

BUT you can't change how people are, you can only change yourself. And do your best every day to have the best relationships you can.

Right…must go now. Had intended to spend the day shopping, not blubbing at the computer.

What a thread.

I haven't spoken to my sister since shortly before my 30th birthday – i'm 42 now.
I spent yrs not speaking to first my mum, then my dad over stupid, inconsequential and idiotic points. I now get on with them both but i regret the yrs of being an immature idiot.

How do we all end up so bloody dysfunctional?

foxychick i bet theres never a day goes by that you dont tell your kids you love them, same here, gazman

Last time I was home I gave my dad a lift from the pub. He was pretty pi$$ed up and started to tell me how he wished his father had told him he loved him. He went on and on about it as only a drunk can then we sat in total silence on the drive home for the next twenty minutes…..

Not bad for a bloke who never told me he cared about me – I guess, as usual, he simply didn't get it 😆

You have to accept your father for who he is and just don't turn out like him! 😉

That's what I did

Too right gazman!! 8)

BUT I'm also very aware that I'm probably deficient in other areas as a parent, which no doubt, the chicklets will be posting about on here in 20 yrs!!

I have major personality traits that are there solely because I lost a father in my formative years

Same here but different traits. As a boy I was closer to my mum until she died. In the 10 months between that and dad dying I started to get to know him. I found out he was a great bloke – not emotional but warm and kind. Total wipeout when I came downstairs one morning to find him dead. Messed up my poor sister and schooling somewhat. We've missed them both.

Good luck with your dads everyone.

Interesting post FoxyChick. But I wouldn't be so dismissive about your mum's explanation for being so cold. Yes, you have gone completely the other way, but it is not usually for children to take rather extreme positions in reaction to unreasonable behaviour from their parents.

For example, children of alcoholics tend to take a rather extreme attitude towards alcohol. They often become alcoholics themselves or, become teetotallers. The reason for becoming a teetotaller is pretty self-explanatory, but the reason for becoming alcoholic are varied, including genetic, example, and surprisingly, a form of supportive loyalty to the parent.

By becoming alcoholics themselves, they are 'normalising' the condition and saying that it is ok to be an alcoholic. To become a teetotaller would be to rebel against your parents. Some consider that to be supportive and 'normalising' the condition in their eyes, and in the eyes of those around them, is an act of love towards their parents.

So I am not at all surprised at the extreme differences in attitude between yourself and your mum FoxyChick. I can also identify with your contradictory feelings for your dad. Mine too, was a very hard man whom I feared (regularly knocking me all around the shop until I was too physically strong for him). But he he did instil into me some very important beliefs – something which I will be always be eternally grateful to him for. He died about the same time as yours, and I still really really miss the old git.

btw, I'm glad that song has so much effect on other people too – I thought it was just me ! …. I've been known to walk outside when it's been played in pubs, cafes, etc 😐

i recently went to a car accident and had to remove two dead kids and it hit me bad having kids myself i now really worry like mad when my mrs takes the kids out in the car i know its stupid but i try to find reasons for her not to go out with the kids in the car 🙁 just cant help it . Bit off topic but its mad how certain work incidents affect your home life

This thread hits me from a slightly different angle; 37 in a weeks time, we'd found out we (note; modern attitude!) were pregnant back in June. However, a serious condition (Edwards syndrome – severe mental + possible physical abnormalities, & if baby is born alive they rarely make it past 12 months) was spotted at the 13wk scan, & we had to undergo the deliberate-miscarriage route. My angle is of a prospective father; slightly worried I've left it so 'late', now a year older than my own dads age at my birth, but hopefully we'll be happy parents this time next year.
I hold no grudges for my own parents, quite the opposite given some of my teenage behaviour. I wish we were closer than we are but I hope I can remember the profound effect emotional support has.

Bloody 'ell Ernie… I WANT TO GO SHOPPING!!!!! 8)

I am well aware that I have inherited many of my Dad's characteristics…his stubborness,his out-spoken-ness, his belief in truth and honesty and his intolerance of lies. He also had a great compassion for others, which sadly didn't seem to extend to his family.
I also know that he really did love me, but didn't show it!

The first time anyone ever told me they loved me was at aged 19 by my first boyfriend.
I've discussed this at length with my Mum, and she just says she presumed I knew she loved me!!!

My Mum's mum was a very cold person, and my Mum had a difficult childhood.
BUT how hard is it to look at yourself and make a change?
I do it every day of my life. Any old fool can do the things we find easy. It is doing the difficult things that makes the difference.

Oh, and muddydwarf…I'm in a very similar position to you!

I am also well aware that I am trying to be a different parent to my kids than mine were. And that I'm problably making lots of mistakes.

his stubborness,his out-spoken-ness, his belief in truth and honesty and his intolerance of lies. He also had a great compassion for others, which sadly didn't seem to extend to his family.
I also know that he really did love me, but didn't show it!

Creepy………you could be talking about my dad there ………… are you my sister ? 😯

I am also well aware that I am trying to be a different parent to my kids than mine were.

Ah, but how will your kids ever understand the "importance" of being told that they are loved – will they bother with their own kids ? 😉

HOLY SHIT!!!

Just been to the post office in my car. My CD player hasn't worked for ages. I gave it a whack, and smashed a few buttons, and it jumped into life. Had no idea which CD was in it…Mike and the Mechanics!!!!

So now I've got mascara and eye-liner smudged all over my face.
Will now have to start again with whole face of make-up before I GO SHOPPING!!!! 😉

"i think it is his girlfriend being the one who is causing it, he has not got a bad bone in his body.."

Ton, look at it from her point of view – you essentially accused her of being unfaithful, then told her to abort her child. You say that the atmosphere is terrible when she does come round, and that at work you shout at your son, and that you know you're being a cock.

If he's telling her that, then that, on top of what's gone before, would probably make her think, "Do I really want this man to be a part of my child's life?". She's not necessarily being vindictive towards you, she might just want what she sees as best for her child.

You've apologised, but it might seem a bit hollow if she still sees you as being overly confrontational, and women can be an unforgiving breed, especially when it comes to their kids!

I'm 36 now, and I've not spoken to my father (apart from a brief phone call when I told him I didn't have anything else to say to him) since January 1st 2000.

My mother and he divorced when I was very young, my earliest memory is of him shouting and screaming at her and sending us both away crying for some reason, and although initially I went to live with my mother, after a few months he got custody of me. He remarried a younger, very naive woman, and then when I was seven moved us 300 miles away. Before that time I used to see my mother regularly, after that, only a couple of times per year.

As I was growing up I used to just think that he was strict, and I used to believe the bullshit that he gave me that he was just doing things 'for my own good', and that he treated me exactly the same as my half brother and sisters, however I now know that not to be true.

Whatever I did would never be good enough for him, and whenever I saw him, or came back from school for shool holidays he'd spend hours berating and browbeating me about every little perceived defect in my personality. He also used to seem to delight in upsetting me, and would deliberately put barriers in the way of me doing things that I wanted, again to 'teach me a lesson'. On one famous occasion at a parents evening he asked the masters at school why I had never been beaten!

Even after I left school for university this pattern of behaviour carried on, with the added aspect that he'd then use money as a hold over me, threatening to stop paying for university if I didn't do what he wanted. From the day I qualified I never took a single penny from then on in the hope that by removing that hold things would get better, unfortunately they didn't. Eventually it got to the stage that after speaking to him on the phone, I'd end up speaking to the samaritans because he'd make me feel so awful about myself and that I was a failure, even though I was training to be a surgeon at the time.

The strange thing was that inbetween times he would be fine, perfectly pleasant, although not exactly close or nurturing. The problem was that you never knew how he would react from day to day.

Earlier on I said that I used to think that he was just strict, but as part of my training (I am now a GP) I had to go on a course about Domestic Abuse. It was one of the most surreal afternoons of my life, because although there are the well known catagories of physical and sexual abuse, what most people understand less well is emotional neglect and abuse. As the lecturer was giving us examples of this sort of behaviour, I recognised that each one was something my father did frequently.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this post, and I'm not sure what it adds to the thread, but recognising a few of the behaviours alluded to above (seeking the approval of friend's parents being a prime example), I though I'd add part of my story. I'm not sure where I'm going from here, I'm 36, and although I have an interesting and fulfilling job, I live alone and struggle to form intimate relationships other than with my bike! I guess what I'm trying to say, is sometimes fathers aren't worth knowing, they're just a waste of space.

This has got to be the most thought provoking and sensitive thread since the Picolax thread,this one i cry with sadness and admiration for you people,non of you ive ever met,your openness and willingness to help each other is absolutely fantastic its just such a pity we couldnt manufacture it on a larger scale and inject the population with it,and then we would be a better country to live in.

Next Sunday its the second aniverary of my dads death from Prostate cancer,then at christmas its my partners Mums aniversary of her death.

Im not takeing it well,yet when i read all your passionate posts, it makes it easier,because most of my tears are gone on your posts.

Thank you all so much, but for all the wrong reasons,with time things do work out, but the longer you take to talk, the longer and more bitter things become.

Mrs Toast – Member

i think you are probably right.
i do seem to go on about it.
i am gonna try and bite my lip and just go with the flow from now on.
if they come round a bit, then that will be a good thing.
i think i do need to change my attitude towards them both….
i will try very hard…

I know I have had my say earlier, but as I have just had a blazing argument with my eldest I thought I would try & show some of the younger ones who hate their dads how things sometimes happen.

I get a phone call from my wife whilst I'm at work telling me she has let our 12 year old daughter go to the cinema with friends, nothing new there, except its in a not very nice town which I have previously said she cannot go to without an adult supervision.
OK so I'm already pretty pissed off with the wife, she (the wife) then tells me she had told our daughter to call or text to say she got into the cinema safely & all is well, well our daughter didn't & now my wife is worried sick so she asking me for reassurance that everything is OK.
Well how the fec do I know, so now I'm worried as well, great. So after my daughter misses the agreed meeting time & her friends mum can't make contact with her daughter either things are a little strained, but just like most kids they turn up a little late & without a care in the world, phew.
So after my wife has called to tell me everything is OK the discussion turns to how to deal with the situation, we can't ignore it so we have to make a choice.
Unsurprisingly it comes down to me to punish her (remember when I told you earlier that I never wanted my daughter to go to this place to begin with?, well if I was listened to it could never of happened right?) so I have banished her to her room for the rest of the night & told her she can't watch TV or use her mobile or internet until she has finished ALL of her homework, and after that she can watch TV in bed & is not allowed downstairs until tomorrow.

Well guess who the bad guy is, guess who is being told that 'I hate you'
or 'it's so unfair' & has to put up with the crying?

Sometimes dads just have to do these things, it's not because they want to, it's because they love their offspring.

Think before you go moaning that your dad is an uncaring disciplinarian.

2unfit2ride…I know exactly how you feel!
My daughter is 11 and is really pushing the boundaries at the moment. My son is 8 and is just plain damned naughty!!
Your problem, in my opinion, is your relationship with your wife, not your daughter. Why the hell is it that you that have to do the "punishing"? It was your wife who let her go to the "forbidden" town.
Next time something like this happens leave it to your wife to sort out and go for a bike ride!!
Parents should act as a team. If MrFC did not support me over the kids he would get very short shrift!!

And, in a calm moment, when all is good again, tell her that however angry you are with her, you will always love her.

FC, if it was left to my wife to do the discipline then we would no longer be together, she's a bit soft, and I'm a bit to hard. I'm not sure it works as well as being a 'team' would, but a team we are not, as I said in my first post…

No relationship is perfect, make the most of what you have, don't bitch about what you could of had, hearsay is vastly overrated.

Cheers.

Can I add that not all children will carry on their fathers uncaring/loveless/selfish/abusive ways.

My Grandfather was away during the war for 6 years, his daughter (my Mum) grew up as a small child not knowing him. On his return, she found this strict unloving huge man had taken over the household. Her fear of him led her to marry my father at a very early age to escape.
She and her sister have turned out to be very loving, caring fantastic parents themselves and bear no resemblance to him.
As Ernie said the chain can get broken.

I wish all of you with problems all the best.
As the saying goes 'you can shoose your friends, not your relatives',

2unfit2ride…really didn't mean to upset/offend you.

FC, you didn't 🙂

Oh good! 8)

Parenting is the hardest job in the world; any old fecker can do it, you don't need any qualifications and there's no training!!!

2unfit2ride, there's a massive difference between a caring father who enforces boundaries when necessary and one who is controlling and bullying

ton – may I suggest that perhaps you are finding it difficult in coming to terms with being a grandparent. The only reason I am saying this is because my best friend has recently been in a similar situation although her son was a bit older. My friend felt that the final tie had been cut with her son and she has been "replaced" as it were.

Yes, she would have wanted the big wedding and being involved in all that but she ended up being ignored. Her advice/opinions were not sought.

She is really struggling with it, feeling "pushed out", examining her own life and expectations. The age thing features very strongly although I suspect she is older than yourself.

I suspect that unless you have adult children, people just can not relate to this.

It sounds as though you feel you have lost a friend/riding buddy. You won't have … things are just a bit different.

2unfit2ride, there's a massive difference between a caring father who enforces boundaries when necessary and one who is controlling and bullying

They're not the same thing at all.

Kramer,

Maybe so in your eyes, but I see little difference to what others have posted above.

In my eyes some of this generation are to worried about themselves to care what others think.

Ho hum, maybe remembrance day will cease to be a recognised event before I die.

Edit, the reference to remembrance day was to show how little respect some others have to previous generations, not a throw away metaphor.

cinnamon_girl
that is just how we feel…pushed out, not involved at all.
the girl is 17 and still lives at home, she still needs her mum to look after her.
also her mum does not work and is doing more than her share of looking after the baby.
like i said we have seen the baby 4 times in the 9 weeks, and then only for 1 hour at a time.
my son went out to celebrate his 18th last saturday, we asked if they wanted us to look after the baby, we were to 'no she is staying with her grandma'
i said to my son, why when she is with her all week, i was not given a answer.
only time i see my son now is at work, rest of the time he is at the gf's house and he sleeps on the sofa..
whenever i mention anything about it we end up arguing..
so like i said, i am gonna keep my mouth shut and see if things change..
my wife is heartbroken about it all…
we will see what happens..

in all fairness how would any parent react if their 17 yr old came home and told them that his gf of 6 month was pregnant…
maybe i should not have asked if it was his, was he sure, and telling him it would be better if she had a abortion..
i still feel the same way…am i wrong for that..i do not know..

2unfit2ride, I'm 36, not sure what generation that makes me in your eyes.

Putting down in writing what an emotionally abusive parent is like doesn't do it justice, and it's difficult to explain the difference to someone who's not been in the situation, especially on an internet forum, but there is a huge difference.

ton – easier said than done but don't beat yourself up. We do want our children to follow a pretty much defined path – are we wrong for having these expectations? Should we have no expectations at all?

My friend's son is the same age as my son. I could not imagine mine becoming a father cos he isn't mature enough and hasn't had enough "life experiences", for want of a better phrase.

I can imagine your wife being heartbroken – the mother and son bond is particularly strong.

Be there for your son … and his girl friend. They will surely come to you and your wife when they are ready. Their emotions must be all over the place – terrified of having a tiny baby to care for, terrified of the future, terrified of how they will manage financially and possibly terrified (in their eyes) of being a disappointment to you and your wife.

Give it time, leave the door open.

Ton, I feel your pain, but I'm sure you know you handled it wrongly to begin with.
Kids are a royal PITA until they really mature, all you can do is guide them, values installed now will often take years to reap, thats life.
Take solstice in the fact that you thought you had done the right thing by him, and let your child know that that was the best you could do, if they want to discuss it further then have the conversation with him, don't hide behind being a parent, he is one now too.

Have a great evening.

cinnamon_girl –

thanks for that… 🙂

ton – your kid MUST have a DNA test done on the bastard.
Otherwise he will pay the CSA for the next 16 (+) years.
Brutal – nope – sensible.

Ti29er – that's tactless and unnecessary 👿

Ti29er – you had a tact bypass?

Kramer, I'm only a few years older than you so I shan't be condescending.
I fully understand that some parent's get it wrong,I'm sure I have/will, but to tar everyone with the same brush is wrong. Without the full facts (not easy on the internet) generalisations do no-one any favours, so bitter experience in a general thread lead others to believe that they have been hard done by.
All I am saying is that being a parent, and as far as I'm concerned a dad, could be seen by my kids as being the enemy, & if that's something I have to deal with to make sure I install the right virtues in my children then so be it.

christ ti29er i hope you dont bump into tony on dark trail ;-(

2unfit2ride not trying to tar everyone with the same brush, fortunately most parents aren't the same as my father, just making the point that the slightly romantic idea that your relationship with your parents is something sacrosanct to be preserved at all cost, isn't always correct.

Kramer – I hope you don't have to visit your parents in a nursing home for dementia sufferers. I now cherish the short time left with my father but feel extremely upset that someone who has fought in World War II is reduced to being looked after as though they were a child.

Just remember that parents will have had a tougher life than us.

Kramer,

I think its good that most of us lead a 'normal' life, to think you have had a hard time saddens me, but if you put it in context your one in a million, I know that doesn't help you, & to a certain extent I feel for you (in an I don't know you kind of a way) but the way 'some' of the posts on the first page were put across you would think it was the norm.
Parents are harsh for a reason normally, maybe not in your case, but the reason I mentioned remembrance day above was to show how I was bought up, respect your elders, we ALL have an easy life in comparison to our fathers & forefathers, so be grateful not sad.
Cheers.