The quote above is one of Wil’s, tech editor future predictions/hopes.

I am interested in this because I’m a product designer and like designing little things.

I know presta valves are delicate but have no experience with tubeless so are the valves that bad?

A quick Google shows many options in the bike valve world, what are good ones and what could be improved further?

Cheers!

The valve core tends to pick up latex, and then eventually instead of moving up and down, just sticks, at which point either you can’t get air in, or you can’t stop it getting out.

The other really annoying thing is when the valve core unscrews with the pump, if you’ve got one of those screw-on pump heads (I have).

But you can fix that by just tightening it down, unless you don’t have a multitool, in which case you can just flag down a passing cyclist until you find someone who does.

I haven’t met a stupid tubeless valve yet. They just work. (17yrs of use)

The valve core tends to pick up latex, and then eventually instead of moving up and down, just sticks, at which point either you can’t get air in, or you can’t stop it getting out.

Milkit have that solved with their valves.

But you can fix that by just tightening it down, unless you don’t have a multitool, in which case you can just flag down a passing cyclist until you find someone who does.

Milkit valves come with a valve core tool that resides on the valve stem so that you never forget it.

(I quite like milkit valves)

I think Schrader would work better but my rims are drilled for presta and presta works OK so meh

Mine seem ok, I do wash em a bit though.

Quick wipe of Vaseline when installing stops them getting bunged up.

They’re not perfect, but the removable core sorted most of the original issues and the little Park Tool valve core removal tool makes removing and installing them straightforward. They do get gunked up over time, but it’s easy enough to swap for a new core and you can clean the old one either by soaking in acetone or carefully unscrewing the nubbin thing past its stop point and just scraping the old stuff off from the tube and innards.

I guess some of them could seal better to the rim.

On balance, i’d rather someone came up with a better alternative to taping up rims which is infinitely more of a pain in the backside. It could also maybe incorporate an integral valve.

It would be nice to have one where you don’t have to remove the core that itself restricts the fast airflow that’s needed when trying to get the tyres up initially. ie one where it has better open/wider flow with the valve held up and clear.

They are a pain.

The lockring can seize on when needing to swap to an inner tube on the trail.
The head is easily bent with minipumps, or even track pumps with a cam-over lever.
The core unscrews when you don’t want it to, or blocks up.
The head sometimes punches through the dust cap.
There are at least two variants of tubeless valves.

Design me a Schrader style valve that fits in a presta hole, and here’s the tough bit…that works with existing multi-head pumps 🙂

Edit: And what he said ^ bigger hole for more airflow!

On balance, i’d rather someone came up with a better alternative to taping up rims which is infinitely more of a pain in the backside

UST rims, or Bontrager TLR wheels and rim strips?

On balance, i’d rather someone came up with a better alternative to taping up rims which is infinitely more of a pain in the backside. It could also maybe incorporate an integral valve.

This exists, but with it’s own issues. UST as a standard gives a much better bead interface and solves tape once and for all but currently cuts wheel options dramatically. UST tyres also limit choice and increase cost and weight (necessary in true UST due to the extra layers)

The rubber rim strip with integral valve also solves the problems. Several exist. I have a pair that have been happy for years from my first tubeless conversion when I was scared of taping due to FUD.

Both these options contain all the standard potential valve faults though, so while they solve taping they don’t really answer the original question.

Use Schrader?

Of all the issues folk have listed.

Most of them can be rectified by not being an eejit 🙂

My gripe with tubeless valves comes down to cost.

Why does a presta valved tube cost 4 quid and the valve alone cost 5……

In the early 2000s we used home made rim strips out of a 20inch tube split down the centre and stretched round the rim…… Fit tire use liquid latex and glitter (or sealant these days) and then inflate using the compressor.

Worked well

This:

And this:

I thank u!

ooh Milkit looks ace but OMG it’s a little pricey

You can buy the Milkit valvestems on their own (pretty standard pricing compared to other brands), but you miss out on the clever bits that set them apart if you don’t go for the kit.

Big black shed.

Many of my rims don’t have a big enough rim bed for those monstrosities so not that simple I’m afraid.

Of all the issues folk have listed.

Most of them can be rectified by not being an eejit You’ve worked in a bike shop. You must know the mechanical abilities of the average bike owner. Now just concentrate on those who fall below that average…..

Thanks all, the Milkit kit does look good but a lot going on and probably more than the project I had in mind.

Spooky’s quote “Design me a Schrader style valve that fits in a presta hole” sounds interesting; I’ll fire up my CAD tomorrow and paste something up on here for review

You’ve worked in a bike shop. You must know the mechanical abilities of the average bike owner. Now just concentrate on those who fall below that average…..

Was giving this mob the benifit of the doubt…. Perhaps I over estimated them 🙂

I honestly have no issues with presta.

They’re easy to clean if you wind the nut past their stop, and in 18 years riding, I can’t think I’ve broken more than two. I don’t even bother with dust caps for them.

I can only conclude that those that have such terrible problems are either eejuts, lacking in mechanical sympathy or super anal types.

Can’t see much issue with the current ones apart from cost

If you store your bike with the valves at the 6 o’clock position, the sealant won’t collect in the valve, so it won’t block it.

I run a couple of ghetto setups on the kids bikes with schrader valves and to be honest, the lack of a mechanical closure makes them extremely frustrating.
Same as with presta, goo can dry up on the core, however with a presta, you can overcome any air leakage with your fingers and tightening the knurled nut just a little more.. not so with schrader.. once the spring loaded valve gets gummed up, you have to remove the core or if on the trail without tools, over inflate the tyre in the hope that the higher pressure will stop the valve leaking.

Most of them can be rectified by not being an eejit

Yep or doing things inside all the time where it’s warm and dry and well lit. Alternatively when your out on the trail with gloves on and it’s wet and your trying to pump a tyre up and bend the valve it’s nothing to do with being inept.
Presta is decent when it works, schrader works very well but needs a tool to get the core out. There is probably a better solution somewhere just not sure where it is.

bearback makes a very good point about schrader relying on a spring to seal, and presta using a superior external nut.

Schrader only here. Stick another schrader core in when adding fluid if it looks gummed, they cost a few pence, though I rarely have to.

Never had problems with leaking on the trail (family of 4x schrader tubeless mtb) though we also use metal value caps with a rubber seal.

Drilling a new £80 rim is probably the hardest part though I’ve got over it.

Had a detailed discussion about this exact thing a while back on a ride with a chap from a parts brand who make rims and tubeless kit. I’d been thinking same thing and had a solution in mind, but it’s not easy to make a real improvement. Sealant in small mechanisms and small spaces is the issue. Schrader wouldn’t do well there. It also needs to weigh very little. For now, treating valves as throw away parts and carrying a spare seems to work.

The main problem is the bonkers pricing. They can be sourced for not much at all.

Schrader wouldn’t do well there

In real world usage, that’s not a problem, you don’t add fluid with the core in place anyway, so you have wide opening to pour sealant in. Plus with schrader you can use dice / grenade / scull and crossbone valve caps!

Only issue I’ve had with tubeless is the rear wheel on my fatty. Tried to tape it up with 50mm tape and it would come unstuck within days. Came to the conclusion that it was overlapping the tape, as it wasn’t wide enough to cover the rim bed, that was allowing the sealant underneath to break down the adhesive and cause the problem.

I went back to a tube with sealant in as at the time I wasn’t prepared to pay the extortionate cost for the 75mm tape it needed.

Of all the issues folk have listed.
Most of them can be rectified by not being an eejit

Lack of experience can’t be labelled as being “being an eejit”.

Is that standard LBS attitude? Not surprised they’re struggling if so.

Presta valves are unecessarily fragile and should’ve been ditched years ago.

Be happy with Schrader valves all round, how can they not work with a rim bed my narrowest rims are 25mm internal now

Schrader here too. Always remove the core before adding sealant and never had any issues. I’ve broken Presta valves because I’m a cack handed fool and they are delicate

Such a thing already exists. Schrader valves solve all of these problems. The only issue is rims don’t come drilled for Schrader valves.

My main gripe with Presta is the tendency for the valve core to unscrew with decent screw on pumps. This is easily remedied by not using the same threads for the valve core and the pump (that really is dumb if you think about it). Schrader doesn’t do this.

My other gripe is the tendency to bend and eventually snap the valve core. Schrader wins again here.

Also Schrader is wider which allows better peak flow of air and the core is removable with a tool just as easily as Presta valves.

So really the only problem is the rims aren’t drilled for Schrader – when they are the issue goes away.

I have drilled a few cheap rims for Schrader but haven’t done so on more expensive carbon ones mainly because Presta does work OK.

Honestly wouldn’t make the top 50 of things that could be better designed on a bike. Just sticking a cut out valve from an inner tube in works fine, and you can buy separate valves if you really want to go upmarket. Not a problem worthy of the OP’s time and skills.

I buy spare cores off eBay bag of 10 was about £3 posted ‘no brainier’ if one clogs/snaps replace it & carry spares.
When not in use keep the valves at the top of the wheels this should keep them away from sealant.
On deep section carbon rims like mine schrader won’t work anyhow you can’t buy extra long ones !

Carry a proper tool,a pair of small pliers or a Gerber style multi tool,so you’ve something to get at the valve core.
Seems crazy people spend huge sums on a bike but can’t fit a frame bag for a few essential tools,of course it doesn’t look ‘cool’ so just borrow a mates tools or push then

When not in use keep the valves at the top of the wheels this should keep them away from sealant.

Surely the opposite. With the valve at the bottom any sealant will fall away from the valve to the tyre.

Valves of any sort which actually seal to rims would be a blessing.

I’ve lost count of the number of hours lost to leaky tubeless setups where the valve(s off various types) will not quite seal to the rim. Maybe its just me, maybe it’s my taping, maybe it’s the rims, annoying as hell though.

I never had this problem with UST.

UST rims are great and yes reduce wheel options but errr…. Specific rims tend to do that.

Schrader valves don’t solve the gunking up problem ime. Vaseline sounds like it would help though. Maybe Teflon coating or something might also stop tubeless bogies sticking but it’s a basic problem you can’t avoid if you have sealant.

dangeourbrain – Member

Valves of any sort which actually seal to rims would be a blessing.

I’ve lost count of the number of hours lost to leaky tubeless setups where the valve(s off various types) will not quite seal to the rim. Maybe its just me, maybe it’s my taping, maybe it’s the rims, annoying as hell though.

I never had this problem with UST. Mavic’s UST valve was the original strand-you-in-the-hills-miles-from-home, though. Quite a big locknut that was very prone to corroding onto the valve. You’d rue the day if you puntured without a set of pliers on you [actually two sets to get it off].