[/quote]Not one for ego, but knows better than what she’s taught?

Nope, just thinks some bits are a bit daft. She doesn’t even claim to be a great driver. 🙂 I’ll ask her regarding which bits she didn’t agree with.

How have I quoted myself? 😐

deepreddave – Member

Bring on GPS speed limited vehicles

We already have speed limited vehicles.
They’re the massive ones that sit on the limit inches from your rear bumper and are involved in an unduly large number of accidents. 💡

How have I quoted myself?

Careful now…

**** you shitty picture posting!

Never failed before.
Pistonheads hosts pictures for you, don’t you know? 👿

sbob – Member

How have I quoted myself?

Careful now…

**** you shitty picture posting!

Never failed before.
Pistonheads hosts pictures for you, don’t you know? 👿

Typing too fast perhaps? …

I frequently find motorways terrifying at 70mph, please slow down. Life’s journey not a race.

wilburt – Member
I frequently find motorways terrifying at 70mph, please slow down. Life’s journey not a race.

Nah, you’ll be fine mate.

As this thread proves we are all driving Gods.

Some on here can see a crash about you happen,10 minute on advance.

In another County.

😉

Poopscoop – Member

Typing too fast perhaps?

Kiss my swingers Poopscoop.

My typing is so slow it holds up molgrips.

On a Sunday.

^l

sbob – Member

Kiss my swingers Poopscoop.

Not whilst your driving.

😀

sbob – Member
We already have speed limited vehicles.
They’re the massive ones that sit on the limit inches from your rear bumper and are involved in an unduly large number of accidents.

Drive to the limit or get out of the way Grandad! 😉 Strictly speaking all vehicles are speed limited electronically or mechanically hence me saying GPS speed limited. Context is everything don’t you know….

Where do you plan to station your 1 traffic officer for best effect?

He can sit in the middle of the country on a really tall chair with a pair of binoculars, like a lifeguard.

I’d like to see more cameras (and actually turn them on) and use the fines to pay for more traffic police.

5) (most controversial) remove all speeding cameras and spend the money on real traffic officers instead

That must be a lot of money for it to make any difference. I would need a traffic officer to follow me around when I am cycling so they could catch all the dangerous drivers who insist on overtaking me on every blind bend.

Money would be better spent on a lot of video cameras placed strategically with the ability to report any incidents. For example, video camera on every blind bend and I could report every dangerous driver after each ride via website where I document the time of incident. Footage can then be reviewed and fine sent to driver.

My uncle was a “cautious, humble, considerate, careful, concentrated and slow” driver. He’d cautiously and slowly pull straight out of a side road into 40mph traffic.

Cougar, you and Edukator aren’t describing the same thing, clearly.

You’re talking about people who are slow but inattentive. Ed is talking about people who ARE attentive. If Ed’s Mrs was as you describe then he’d not be praising her driving, would he? You are conflating low speed with bad driving, which is incorrect.

If we are talking solutions though, I would spent a lot more on education and education reinforcement. Most people don’t concentrate because they don’t think it’s a big deal. Let’s make it a big deal. The driving test doesn’t focus enough on your responsibilities as a good driver, and with no re-education and naff all in the way of campaigns, people just don’t care.

Average speed cameras such as those on the A9 from Perth up seem to do a good job of calming people’s driving down

Speeding was never really the issue on the A9 – it was lots of insane overtaking on convoys led by 40mph trucks.

The A9 is better now, but not just because of the cameras alone. The rise in limit for trucks to 50mph (most seem to sit at indicated c. 55) means there’s less desire to overtake and the cameras then reduce the benefit of doing so. Either cameras or faster trucks on their own wouldn’t have had the same effect.

sbob – Member
deepreddave – Member
Bring on GPS speed limited vehicles

We already have speed limited vehicles.
They’re the massive ones that sit on the limit inches from your rear bumper and are involved in an unduly large number of accidents.

All vehicles being GPS limited sounds like a very good idea to me, I don’t think the idea should be dismissed so cursorily. Just off the top of my head: what evidence do you have that vehicles that are already gps limited are unduly involved in accidents?, could they not be worse without the speed limiter?, surely there’s nothing to be gained sitting on the person in front’s bumper if everyone is limited to the same speed?…

^Molgrips post was much clearer than mine, re Edukator’s wife’s driving – wot he said.

All vehicles being GPS limited sounds like a very good idea to me

I’d prefer a speeding alarm or something instead. That way if you need to floor it to overtake you can, and there are no nasty surprises – but the shrill alarm would soon encourage you to slow down.

Black boxes, as supplied by some insurance companies. To be made compulsory for all insurance policies. Drive like a loon, you get a friendly phone call from your insurers asking for some more money. Apparently they’re quite effective.

And dashcams.

I’d prefer a speeding alarm or something instead. That way if you need to floor it to overtake you can, and there are no nasty surprises – but the shrill alarm would soon encourage you to slow down.

most modern cars have this functionality.

in oman they ping at you constantly if you exceed the NSL.

Interesting thread as all the speeding ones are…
I’m just reflecting on attitude to laws, seeing as the Germans, Swiss and French have been mentioned earlier… also mindful of the dangers of a generalisation as I havn’t spoken to every individual in those countries…

Since my move to Germany and driving here (30km/h and unrestricted autobahn) as well as Switzerland, (open roads 80km/h, 120km/h motorways), its very obvious that attitude to these laws is very different. Dont get me wrong, people do speed, but the general acceptance and adherance to these laws and other public law does feel very different in everyday life, as well as on the road.

I think the limits in general work because the attitude to the law and acceptance of it, culturally makes the systems work to a greater degree.

A big leap here I know, but the Swiss have a country stuffed full of guns and they are often referenced in US gun threads*…. Something in the space between the ears of a Swiss person must be different in the self restraint element. Call it culture, education, whatever…. and if I go with the “Behavoiur breeds behaviour” theory, this self restraint / acceptance of law / speed limits is self reinforcing and becomes “how things are and work” in Germany / Switzerland in general .

Another clear example of different attitudes at work is merging two lanes into one. The game of punish the merging driver doesnt seem to be the norm and the logical Zip method works when people drive in both lanes to the front of the line. The attitude is very different.

Yes, people are generally more disciplined on motorways here and yes, cars do hang on your bumper but if you are used to it, look, indicate, make your move and then move over. Remember a lot of autobahn is 2 lanes, not three… so its trucks and everything else on unrestricted sections. (yes, we have had the autobahn fatality figures already. Faster speeds = more energy = more likely bad outcomes when it happens)

At the end of the day, calibrated instruments measure speed objectively but its a subjective individual judge that pronounces on contrition, remorse or attitude.

*yes, I know bullets are controlled, not guns, plus the Swiss have earnings linked speed fines as deterrants that are eyewatering… but I’m referencing attitude to law in the bit above.

Maybe Edukator and other non German residents might add a comment here.

Yeah you can set it in my car, but only a blanket level, it doesn’t change when you enter speed limits.

what speed limit for bonfires

Which kind of demonstrates the need for limits to be lower rather than higher given the stupidity of some people

If we are talking solutions though, I would spent a lot more on education and education reinforcement. Most people don’t concentrate because they don’t think it’s a big deal. Let’s make it a big deal. The driving test doesn’t focus enough on your responsibilities as a good driver, and with no re-education and naff all in the way of campaigns, people just don’t care.

One of the things Mrs F hated when she was involved with instructing was the unwillingness to change and modernise the driving test. Hopefully once the old guard in charge shuffle off this mortal coil things can improve.

Remove all the home comforts such as heating, power steering, air con and windows 😈 that would slow people down straight away 😉

deepreddave – Member

Strictly speaking all vehicles are speed limited electronically or mechanically hence me saying GPS speed limited. Context is everything don’t you know….

I’m struggling to find the relevance of this post.

gauss1777 – Member

All vehicles being GPS limited sounds like a very good idea to me, I don’t think the idea should be dismissed so cursorily. Just off the top of my head: what evidence do you have that vehicles that are already gps limited are unduly involved in accidents?, could they not be worse without the speed limiter?, surely there’s nothing to be gained sitting on the person in front’s bumper if everyone is limited to the same speed?…

I was talking about HGVs.
You have seen how HGVs are driven on UK roads haven’t you?
It sounds like you haven’t…

On motorways: More than half (52%) of fatal accidents on motorways involve HGVs, despite HGVs only making up 10% of the traffic on motorways

You think that’s specifically related to speed limiters?

On motorways: More than half (52%) of fatal accidents on motorways involve HGVs, despite HGVs only making up 10% of the traffic on motorways

Could the fact that they are **** massive not account for some of that percentage? I should imagine chances of a fatality are a lot higher because of the size and weight (and that’s just the drivers)

On motorways: More than half (52%) of fatal accidents on motorways involve HGVs, despite HGVs only making up 10% of the traffic on motorways

But if 10% of vehicles are HGVs and there’s a crash between 2 vehicles then there’s a 19% chance that any one of the vehicles is a HGV, right? And as the number of vehicles involved in the collision goes up, the chance of a HGV being involved also goes up. So it’s not quite the difference that the quote makes it look like.

There’s also the restriction by fatal collisions. Why would being in a car that’s hit by a 44 tonne HGV be more likely to cause a death than a collision with a 1.5 tonne car, or a 200kg motorbike, or 100kg of gnarpoon bike and cyclist? It’s because of the energy involved in the collision, which is related to mass and speed.

As either goes up, so does the energy in the collision and so does the level of harm likely to be caused.

sbob – Member
I’m struggling to find the relevance of this post.

And your own presumably. How HGVs are driven to their limit is a separate issue to speeding per se.

more likely not looking out the **** window.

deepreddave – Member

And your own presumably. How HGVs are driven to their limit is a separate issue to speeding per se.

Here we go… 🙄

To recap:
You mentioned speed limiters and your desire for them:

Bring on GPS speed limited vehicles

I pointed out that we already have speed limited vehicles (HGVs) and pointed out an easily observable reason as to how they can have a negative effect.

This is an entirely relevant reply.

Unlike your other post. You might have well have mentioned that all vehicles are limited ultimately in free-fall by their aerodynamic profile.

I’m happy to explain more of your own posts to you if you like, but not for long as it’s happy hour soon and I need to keep up my darts practice. 🙂

You did, and I previously ignored it as anecdotal nonsense, but if you really want to make a big thing of it:

Interesting. The accidents thing has already been addressed and there’s certainly no obvious connection between that and speed limiters. However far more interesting is the suggestion that they sit on the limit inches from your rear bumper. I’m curious how you manage to stay precisely at the speed of the HGV’s limiter without the benefit of having one yourself (despite having admitted I sometimes travel at truck speed on motorways it’s an experience I’ve failed to have)?

Anyway, fundamentally you’re playing the same game here as “I know a slow driver who is rubbish, ergo all slow drivers are rubbish”, which is also clearly nonsense.

They tried trialling gps speed limited motorcycles with help from several magazines and a couple of manufacturers.
Every single bike went down the road due to the system shutting power down when it decided the vehicle was exceeding the limit. Pretty much all in mid-corner.
Stupid idea.

aracer – Member

You think that’s specifically related to speed limiters?

Yes.

Longer answer: I believe it’s one factor of many. Probably far outweighed (unintentional pun) by the type of vehicle (big heavy ones).
I do believe that limiting vehicles using GPS will encourage drivers to inappropriately sit on that limit.
I believe it is (or will be treated as) a removal of responsibility, when we need to be making drivers more responsible, not less.

Chaps, you’re all missing the essential truth. I’m both faster and safer than you all. I’m also manlier and more attractive to the opposite and indeed the same sex.

You did, and I previously ignored it as anecdotal nonsense

Carry on, I wasn’t talking to you. 🙂

The accidents thing has already been addressed

No it hasn’t. Not well at least.
I was asked for evidence and I provided it.
The problem with replying to other people’s exchanges is that the specifics of a post often get confused due to the differing views of the poster.

there’s certainly no obvious connection between that and speed limiters

Yes there is. It is obvious and observable. They encourage HGV drivers to travel too close. Why do you think snail racing exists? Drivers sitting on the limiter.
Like I said, entirely observable.

However far more interesting is the suggestion that they sit on the limit inches from your rear bumper. I’m curious how you manage to stay precisely at the speed of the HGV’s limiter without the benefit of having one yourself

I didn’t say I stayed at precisely the speed of the HGV (which will vary) that’s your strawman, but acceleration sense is the term you are looking for, and the one you would probably already know of if you spent less time arguing on the net and more time furthering your driving education. 🙂

Anyway, fundamentally you’re playing the same game here as “I know a slow driver who is rubbish, ergo all slow drivers are rubbish”, which is also clearly nonsense.

No, this is almost entirely your prejudice.

I had to stop posting in the EU thread because people who were too thick to understand that I could criticize the EU without being a leaver were also continuously misrepresenting my position. 💡
😉

oldbloke – Member

Speeding was never really the issue on the A9 – it was lots of insane overtaking on convoys led by 40mph trucks.

The A9 is better now, but not just because of the cameras alone. The rise in limit for trucks to 50mph (most seem to sit at indicated c. 55) means there’s less desire to overtake and the cameras then reduce the benefit of doing so. Either cameras or faster trucks on their own wouldn’t have had the same effect.

Supposedly when they added the massive “dual carriageway in 1 mile” LED signs it cut accidents in those sections to essentially nil, just by stopping the headcase overtakes. But that doesn’t help on the longer nondualed sections.

sbob:

I was talking about HGVs.
You have seen how HGVs are driven on UK roads haven’t you?
It sounds like you haven’t…

On motorways: More than half (52%) of fatal accidents on motorways involve HGVs, despite HGVs only making up 10% of the traffic on motorways

Hmm. I’m not quite sure what you mean by “it sounds (sic) like you haven’t…” As I have said, I don’t drive, but I have done enough travelling on motorways to see that ‘sitting on the bumper’ of the car in front is commonplace for all modes of transport. HGVs appear to me to be driven generally at at a higher standard than cars, but that’s just a gut feeling.
The point about HGVs being involved in a disproportionately high number fatal accidents, has been addressed by others.

I do believe that limiting vehicles using GPS will encourage drivers to inappropriately sit on that limit.

This sounds like a reasonable assumption to me, but surely without their limiters they’d be sitting on a higher speed, whatever they could reach/maintain?

This sounds like a reasonable assumption to me, but surely without their limiters they’d be sitting on a higher speed, whatever they could reach/maintain?

That’s not what unlimited vehicles do now.

Making drivers concentrate, think and shoulder responsibility is, I believe, the key to safe driving.

gauss1777 – Member

This sounds like a reasonable assumption to me, but surely without their limiters they’d be sitting on a higher speed, whatever they could reach/maintain?

No, not necessarily- that’d be assuming that they all want to speed. Basically a limiter means you don’t need to think about speed. For some folks that probably means they can focus on other things, especially those folks that are obsessed with being at exactly the speed limit, for others I’m sure it’ll mean they think less. Especially the obsessed-with-speed crowd and the 9 pointers and the “I’m safe, I don’t speed” people.

I’ve no idea whether it’s a net benefit or harm though.

I’m still not sure I understand. Are you saying that HGVs constantly travel at their speed limit because they have limiters and that otherwise they would not break the speed limit, but vary their speed within the limit?

(Apologies for a terribly constructed sentence, I think I need to go on a writing course).