Onzadog – Member
Isn't Stan of no tubes fame playing around with a 6 speed rear wheel so it cane be dishless with fewer spokes?

great idea and can be done with standard parts you can fit 6 sprockets on a hope trials freehub. if you want to try it out, just remember to set the limit screw so you don't mash the spokes.

clubber – Member
Can I just point out that broken chains is very unlikely to be anything to do with the width of the side plates

The sideplates are too thin, there isn't enough metal there. I saw the chain Devs broke and was astonished that it had failed in tension, first time I've seen it in 15 years. I'm never going 9 speed let alone 10 speed unless they stop making 7/8 speed stuff.

The sideplates are too thin, there isn't enough metal there. I saw the chain Devs broke and was astonished that it had failed in tension, first time I've seen it in 15 years.

I had two top of the range 9 speed SRAM chains do that to me a couple of years back both snapped on the side plate and I wasn't the only one. That has never happened to me with any Shimano or KMC chain 9 or 10 speed, I think most of us are safe to progress to 10 speed without catastrophic chain failure, that said I have no Idea what Dev must be doing to get through so many chains from different manufacturers.

TORQUE!!

Question is, do we think that this is a genuine move that will take off, or a tentative move that will look quite amusing in a couple of years' time

It's not a 'move', it's simply evolution, why on earth would they give up on it?

Having been riding XX for a few months (admittedly not that often due to the extortionate cost of cassettes!) I see none of the issues that people harp on about, cassettes don't fill with mud, the chain line is much better with more usable gears than a 3×9 (but comparable to a 2×9).

If you go for a 26/39 chainset with an 11-36 cassette the 26/36 gear is somewhere between a 22/34 and 22/30, ie one sprocket down on the cassette. So yes, you will lose the very very bottom gear. I suspect to most people it will make no difference, you will just pedal a tiny bit harder when you get to that point, when you're moving at <3mph!

It's looking like Shimano are going to do triples, so you can just go 3×10 if you want, you gain ratios then, although I'm sure then people will just whinge about snapping chains, which is more likely to be with hamfisted riding than bad equipment!

]Do you not miss being able to quickly switch between 3 big ratio jumps on the front?

nope..

Agreed, the less shifting on the front the better surely!?

Meh, I'm not really too fussed about ten speed as far as i'm concerned there was nothing wrong with 8 speed. What I would like to see is an 11-36 9 speed cassette. That would make 1×9 much more viable for me. Is there any technical reason why this couldn't be done?

None at all, you'll just have big jumps, but as said elsewhere, there's already a 12-36.

"What I would like to see is an 11-36 9 speed cassette. That would make 1×9 much more viable for me. Is there any technical reason why this couldn't be done?"

Some mechs might have issues with it… But apparently the current XT is rated for 36T (Shimano already has a 36-12 sprocket for clownbikes which you can adapt to 36-11, but it's heavy and gives a big step between the top 2 ratios).

I think the reason a light 11-36 hasn't come along is purely because it reduces the impact of 10 speed. Seems to me that the major advantages of XX aren't anything to do with being 10 speed.

I personally would want basic 7 speed but to a high spec and XT quality, speaking to microshift they seem to like the idea also so hopefully they might make something decent, also speaking to SRAM, they had no consideration of the issues around dirt ingress, tolerance of gear set up etc, they just work on the premise that everyone runs perfectly set up kit that dosent get damaged/dirty/worn, etc, so they arent considering the problems that slightly bent mech hangers, sticky cables, near zero tolerance on cable set up might cause poor shifting, broken chains etc.

just another example of the industry missing the point of what the customers want in my view.

I'm sure then people will just whinge about snapping chains, which is more likely to be with hamfisted riding than bad equipment!

I can't deny I'm ham fisted at times, usually when it comes to giving things that extra wee tighten. I've gotten good at extracting sheared bolts. I've never snapped a chain while shifting though, only when putting the power down. I'm sure if you only weigh 9st wet through then you'll have no problem with 10 speed chains but as the current crop aren't up to the job I doubt making them thinner and lighter is going to help us clydesdales. After snapping a chain last year because I had decided to run it into the ground rather than swapping at the .75 wear point, I decided that the injuries I got were most undesirable and I would change them at the correct wear point. I have yet to get one reach it without snapping but I suspect that is down to too many snowy, icy rides. Did you not get any snow in your muddy fields this winter?

EDIT: I'm talking crap.

DeVs: Lose weight?

(runs and hides)

9st wet through then you'll have no problem with 10 speed chains

I was 16 stone when I started using 10 speed chains, as above yet to have one snap, OK I'm a lot lighter now but I'm still 13.6 stone on a very very very good day.

I'm 10.5 stone and have snapped a lot of chains, including KMC, Shimano and SRAM. In the case of Shimano and SRAM I've snapped the sideplates clean in half.

I broke a brand new Dura Ace chain after 200 yards, not on the joining pin either.

I've broken probably ten 9 speed ones, and one 10 speed one on my cross bike, which I think was in part to doing tonnes of 15 second efforts from a standing start in training.

Chains break, it's not that regular, it won't be that much more regular with 10 speed ones!

Seeing as it is nearly always the pins that fail strengthening those in a narrower chain is altogether possible. To that end Campag 11 speed chains are stronger than their 10 speed.

Oh I've had a couple of 9sp shimano chains go at he pin, probably user error and as I've stated above two 9sp SRAM chains have cracked on the side plate.

DeVs: Lose weight?

(runs and hides)

No need to hide I'll never catch you! You can't play 2nd row forward or prop at ragdoll weight so I don't try to lose anymore weight. God knows what I'd have to do to shift that much anyways, I'm out biking nearly everyday and get 100 proper hilly offroad miles a week in roughly.

If it's muscle: stop working out, if it's fat: eat less!

Campag 11 speed chains are stronger than their 10 speed

They also need to be joined with a special £200 chain tool, or Campag won't be responsible if they break. 🙄

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2009/06/campagnolo-11-speed-chain-failure.html

I know this is STW, and everyone is a mechanical genius, but personally I can see the benefit of having bike parts that are resistant to a bit of ham-fistedness or neglect.

If it's muscle: stop working out, if it's fat: eat less!

I bet your granny sucks a mean egg! 😀
It's muscle and apart from the odd press up and sit up I don't work out. I don't even go to rugby training anymore as I'm trying to retire. You miss the point though. I don't want to be lighter, I want kit that can take the strain. I just hope the 9 speed stuff drops in price once the 10 speed stuff is out. Those that think that lighter and thinner chains will be just as strong are burying their heads in the sand. They will be more expensive and changed more often. It's a real clever sales strategy. I think that I can't be arsed with changing to 8sp on the bikes I have now considering that most of my riding is SS now anyways, but the next bike I build will be 8 sp if you can still get it. Gashing your abdomen on the stem just where your trousers sit is no fun!

I for one welcome our new 10-speed overlords. 9-speed was already established when I got into mountain biking so I haven't had the opportunity yet to grumble to anyone who'll listen that my drivetrain was so much better back in the olden days before they upped the number of sprockets. 10-speed will give me that opportunity. 🙂

LOL @ ChrisL

God knows what I'd have to do to shift that much anyways

I merely responded to that 🙂

Those that think that lighter and thinner chains will be just as strong are burying their heads in the sand

I am going to disagree there, and reiterate that it's certainly possible to make a thinner chain stronger as the weak link (excuse the pun) is not, nor will it become the sideplates.

2X10, can't see the point of it really, give me 2/9 any day. However, a 32/30 on the front coupled with a 11/36 on the rear may be a winner if you can fit something to prevent the chain from falling while using a bash guard. Shorter cage rear mech, so less rear mech banging the chain stay.
Should I get very worried and buy a few chain/xt cassette now to keep running a few year?

similar arguments as to why tubeless won't "catch on" – it did
and adjustable seatposts were slagged on this very forum, now you all want them.

even DIRT were praising SRAM for the XX stuff – its progress, get over it

However, a 32/30 on the front coupled with a 11/36 on the rear may be a winner if you can fit something to prevent the chain from falling while using a bash guard

Either would be too small IMO, 34 would be more sensible for a 1×10.

I don't really see why you can say 2×9 is great, but 2×10 is pointless!

34/36 won't be enough. I am using the 22/30 or 22/30 quite often (you know hills with rock and so on etc etc) as I hate pushing/carrying my bike.
2×10 is pointless because made for XC unles you keep the 22/32 on the front and get a 36 at the rear, but then 22/36 might actually bit a tad too small.

2×10 is pointless because made for XC

So it's not pointless, it's made for XC. How is 2×9 any different anyway? You can run exactly the same ratios you are the moment, and either have the same cassette for smaller gaps, or a bigger cassette for a wider range of gears.

Is it just because you're French and have to whinge about something?

As an aside… you have so little momentum in 22/30 (weird bottom gear that…) that you're probably just as likely to get up stuff in a slightly higher gear pushing harder!

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

As an aside… you have so little momentum in 22/30 (weird bottom gear that…) that you're probably just as likely to get up stuff in a slightly higher gear pushing harder!

Erm unless it's a very technical and steep climb (22/30 is the smaller front cog and the next to big rear cog so not "weird")? Second what is exactly the point of a 2X10 if I run exactly the same range of gear?

Because you can! And if you don't want to, then here's a novel idea… don't!

More likely is that you'll keep the same rings, run a wider cassette and be able to stick in the big ring for longer, or have an extra gear for when it all goes wrong! Or you can run bigger rings and keep the same bottom gear.

Well if its just for XC then it's not for me then.

similar arguments as to why tubeless won't "catch on" – it did

Not for me it didn't.

and adjustable seatposts were slagged on this very forum, now you all want them.

I don't