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  • So I want to try road racing + build a bike specifically for this
  • nathb
    Free Member

    Nathing like a pro there CH!

    crosshair
    Free Member

    Lol! Thruxton is different. The bunch is twice or three times as wide as Hillingdon so the draft is huge.

    I used about 50w less than usual so it’s definitely the place for Nathing 😆

    Leigh2612
    Free Member

    Random BC question….my events page always comes up with an error so I can’t see what upcoming events I have entered. Does this happen to anyone else or just me…?
    Thanks!

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

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    crosshair
    Free Member

    I find the page a bit hit and miss too. Some of it is surprisingly functional then other bits are rubbish.

    I tend to click the favourite ‘star’ next to each event I’ve entered to turn it gold. Then it will appear on ‘My Calendar’.

    Leigh2612
    Free Member

    Cheers crosshair, will give that a try!

    crosshair
    Free Member

    And you thought there was nothing left to write about another dull 23 mile sprint out at Thruxton right? 😆 Ah well, here goes..

    It’s fair to say I was cooked coming into today’s race. I had an awful club run on Sunday where the lack of stocky wheels to follow and general head-windery combined with an awfully noisy drivetrain to sap my watts at every turn.

    I had a gang of volunteers at work today so wanted to get lots done but I chose the easier more technical jobs to try and stay fresh for this evening. At least that’s my justification for letting a couple of 70 year olds loose with the sledge hammer whilst I twiddled electric fence wire together purposefully!

    I got home at 15:00 to sort out the dogs etc and promptly fell fast asleep on the sofa. I woke up to a noisy excited 4-year-old leaping all over me and then suddenly realised I was heading towards being late!

    Feeling groggier than ever, I actually made it there just 10minutes later than usual and still way too early.
    The plan for this evening was clear in my mind. Push as gently as possible on the pedals for 50 minutes then SPRINT!!

    I didn’t even bother with much of a warm up. A quick three miles was enough to check my new carbon saddle (courtesy of the frame supplier to make up for excess customs charges) didn’t slice off anything important down below. The other was in the stacker box just in case but I quite like the new one.

    I ditched my Red Bull from my pre-race load and just had a Lucozade sport an hour before and a Galaxy Caramel to try and kick start some life.
    A caffeine gel on the line and we were ready to race! 

    Lap one was suitably sedate but two was a bit fruitier. There were half a dozen break attempts today but everything was left to hang about 100m off of the front and it would soon come back together.

    Nathing the edges and ebbing flowing between mid-pack and the very back, I was starting to wake up and my legs felt ok! I decided to ignore everything else and just focus on forward vision tonight. Keeping my eyes well up and responding to what the guy 10 wheels in front were doing meant I had to accelerate or brake very little.

    The race absolutely flew by! It went so quickly, before I knew it, we were being lapped by the big boys. But then, like when the 4’s lap the ladies at the IWS at Hillingdon, they just seemed to stop! So we were stuck on the wheel of the motorbike for pretty much two laps.

    On the 7thlap, as we came up the hill and past the finishing straight, I pushed a bit harder, took a bit of wind and drifted forwards.
    And there was a gap! Probably the biggest gap of the race! Ten guys had floated off of the front behind the motorbike in blissful ignorance and the bunch was actually in danger of sprinting out for no points!

    For a very brief moment, my by now buzzing brain thought about sprinting across and shouting GOGOGO! to the accidental break! We were told ten laps so I assumed we had three left so discretion was the better part of valour. As it was, they knocked off a lap in the dulling light and there were in fact only 1 ¾ laps left at that point. Would it have worked? I don’t know but it would have been more fun!!

    Anyway, still nobody was closing it and a few guys worrying about their plan (the same one we all had of course) started shouting. But nothing happened.
    So I upped the watts and bridged across and whilst I towed everyone with me, I did get a few pats and ‘thanks’ at the end so it was noticed.

    So… back together and there’s the bell! I took some wind and moved up down the start finish straight. I could have taken my momentum almost to the front but I consciously thought “No, that’ll do Pig, that’ll do!” and rolled in to mid pack. Now- recover!!

    As we went through the fast sweeping corners before the downhill, shouting erupted from the apex and bikes veered wildly. Because I was looking so far ahead, my instinct was to steer away from what looked like an inevitable crash and I bumped into an Outdoor Traders guy to my left. Both on the drops, it was arm to arm and I instantly apologised- should know better than that!! He was cool though and said not to worry- he had thought the exact same thing was about to happen.

    Right, into the final downhill where I wasted watts last week and I was hyper aware. Aware enough to have an epiphany in fact! As one of the teams shouted “UPUPUPUPUPUP!!!!” on the front and the whole pack surged for the line, I realised I was suddenly full of adrenaline! So my RPE had in fact plummeted from say 8 to like 4. I felt like I was floating but a quick look down and I realised I was pushing 460w! Even more than last weeks failed attempt.

    So I soft pedalled. Not literally of course, but relative to what I was doing. And the bunch didn’t vanish away from me. We were heading up the hill now and I’d noticed that earlier it was taking a serious effort to go up regardless- let alone on the final lap. Not yet! Not yet! Not yet!

    Then some lunatic came flying past in a kind of aero sprint, head down and arse up and nearly ran into the back of someone. He actually regrouped and did the same again somehow and as we rounded the second part of the chicane, he came over the treacherous looking chevrons and barrelled straight in front of me and nearly wiped out the two guys in front.

    That pretty much spoilt my finish as my over-active imagination couldn’t see a good ending.   Miraculously, they hadn’t crashed and I shook myself back into action with a 900-odd watt punt and made up a few places.

    So in conclusion- plan was pretty much executed to perfection but I rolled the dice on the chicane and was slightly out of luck.
    For Weeksy’s benefit- my friend Ben from NRC rode a very smart race again. He stayed in the front 10 all the time and finished either 10th or 11th I reckon. Should I have marked him? Not sure- will look at his power and decide….

    crosshair
    Free Member

    Hmmm. I probably should have sat on Ben’s wheel all race. I’m not sure what MrB thinks but I reckon we are within a kg or two of each other and I averaged 236/274 and he averaged 242/271 so very very similar despite our different positioning.

    His HR was higher at 165 to my 157 and our Max’s were both 190.

    Next week’s game plan 😀

    matts
    Free Member

    Nice one CH. And top write-up – I felt I was living that. 8)

    nathb
    Free Member

    Nice write up CH as always.

    Sounds like a good race, next weeks dice roll could be it!?

    crosshair
    Free Member

    Well I’m tempted to just follow Ben now of course! The thing is, it’s such a close match in terms of ability, there are very few options available to any of us.

    I have literally zero leverage on the race. I cannot ride fast enough solo to even help in a break and my 3-4 minute power isn’t strong enough to go early down the hill.
    So I just have to sit in and hope a line opens up in front of me.

    I averaged 26mph for the final minute instead of 24, so despite the hold up, I was a lot stronger in the finale. Just need to keep trying I guess.

    A wonderful week of R+R awaits so hopefully I’ll be extra fresh next week too….

    crosshair
    Free Member

    So, according to his Strava- Ben got a well deserved point. But I was literally 1 second behind 😮

    And I lost that second on the chicane where I said 🙁

    Hopefully this link works… https://www.strava.com/segments/12106042/compare/MjQyNzI5MzE0MTIsMjQyNzYyNjE1NDA=

    And I was going faster than him by the end so who knows!!! That was soooooo close!!

    nathb
    Free Member

    Been faffing around with my seat height, feels better now and so far feel able to stick a little bit more power down…

    [video]https://youtu.be/TIHbRQ3MrBQ[/video]

    Excuse the shoulder marker (and tan lines), shifted when I sat on the bike haha

    matts
    Free Member

    To me. you look like you’re right on the edge of losing control of your knee at the bottom of the downstroke. But see how you get on and beware of any pain.

    tomvet
    Full Member

    Any tips for my first road race, doing the Banbury star race, 45 miles with cats 3’s and 4’s, route takes in a half mile climb averaging 10% so I think the whole race tends to blow up into groups though I imagine I am likely to be TT’ing my way round at the back. How does it work with junctions and cars ect and can I get a bottle passed to me from the road side?

    nathb
    Free Member

    I managed an hour season yesterday with no knee pain. Tonight I am racing in a zwift competition (hilly route) so I guess that’s the test!!

    I did manage 150rpm, ERG mode on Zwift was a pain so I had to really get the legs spinning to get up to the specified power: https://www.strava.com/activities/992113464

    Tom, never done a real road race but from the crits I’d try and stay top 1/3 and hide from any wind.

    tomvet
    Full Member

    Will do, but there’s no hiding on the hill when the gradient pitches up to 15% in places

    crosshair
    Free Member

    Well so much for my newfound situational awareness 😆

    Turns out Thruxton was won by a solo break away from 14 miles out 😮

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Turns out Thruxton was won by a solo break away from 14 miles out

    It’s probably quite a good idea going quite early at a Thruxton cat 4 while the people who fancy their chances lurk at the back where it’s almost impossible to spot someone sneaking off the front.

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    It’s probably quite a good idea going quite early at a Thruxton cat 4

    … if you know you have the FTP of a Cat 2 / 3.

    crosshair
    Free Member

    You’d have suck with him easy MrB- he was only averaging 25.4mph 😆

    tomvet
    Full Member

    Will do, but there’s no hiding on the hill when the gradient pitches up to 15% in places

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    tomvet, first road race?
    Just go and enjoy it. Work out which wheels you trust to follow and which wheels you don’t… then just buzz of the speed and adrenaline until you finish or you’ve had enough.
    Check out the race briefing for rules on handing up bottles, but at 45 miles you’re best off just carrying 2 from the outset, should be plenty. Taking bottles from a stationary person is more difficult than you think!
    But back to my opening point… go and have fun!

    nathb
    Free Member

    Good news!

    I’ve just done a crazy competition race on Zwift and so far no knee pain and generally felt a lot more comfortable!

    In fact I’ve just got a new FTP of 316W (4.51w/kg) up from 315W haha.
    30 min = 318w
    20 min = 332w
    15 min = 334w
    10 min = 345w

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Good luck Tom. You won’t need more than two bottles. I assume that here is neutral service too, but I always take a tube and co2. For the hill, try and get near the front if you aren’t a climber. Expect to drop back, and hold on at the top. Repeat.

    The circuit will only have left hand turns. If you have accredited marshals then the road is closed. Don’t go too far over onto the other side of the road, a car may be waiting! You may also have National Escort Group moto riders. These guys are super and will ride ahead to close down hazards and junctions for you.

    Don’t overtake the lead car. Don’t drop litter. Don’t go over a solid white line. All three will DQ you. Move up through the bunch if you can, not on the wrong side of the road. Stay out of the gutter.

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    I’m probably late to the party with this…

    But it’s a pretty useful tool for comparing where you are verses others when you’ve got a power meter. >4.5 w/kg is solid and more than enough to cut it at Cat2 if you’re ‘race craft’ is even half there.

    nathb
    Free Member

    Yeah I’ve seen that before.

    I’m going to be working on Z2 and 5s-4min power now I think the base is semi-okay.

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    >4.5 w/kg is solid and more than enough to cut it at Cat2 if you’re ‘race craft’ is even half there.

    FWIW I think things like those numbers kind of get you a seat at the table. Getting a result is far more down to race craft, experience, ability to recover from efforts, knowing how best to use what you’ve got to get a result. Oh and a good sprint! You can get results with a lot less.

    And also FWIW, for most UK racing (and certainly crits) I think outright watts (or W/CdA) is of more relevance than w/kg. You might be 4.5 w/kg but if you’re 60kg there’s no way you’re riding away from even a cat 4 pack on a flat circuit.

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    I’m probably late to the party with this…

    Interesting, but not that useful for Cat4’s in the UK – too many racers, not enough races. I’ve argued the point in other threads, but Cat4 is not really fit for purpose as entry level racing – there’s a massive gulf between very fit recreational riders and holding the bunch in a Cat4 road race
    4W/Kg minimum for even a sniff of points unless you are a sprinter on a pancake flat course.

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    You might be 4.5 w/kg but if you’re 60kg there’s no way you’re riding away from even a cat 4 pack.

    Very true and agree with fifeandy.

    My only experience is from a year of racing last year going from Cat4 to Cat2… my power numbers sit in the Cat2 banding for all but 1 min power.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Seconded. I’m with fifeandy – 67 kg, 4.5 W/kg, not a lot more for shorter efforts! By the time you are scoring points in a 70-rider Cat 4 race at Hillingdon, you’ll have no trouble staying in an E123 race.

    The US system has Cat 5 for beginners, with Coach-sign off after 10 races. I like this idea; show you can race safely rather than score 12 points. It used to be 10, but now you must race at least twice to be a third cat.

    crosshair
    Free Member

    All of which should hopefully make my 3.3w/kg point all the sweeter when I finally get it 🙂

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    By the time you are scoring points in a 70-rider Cat 4 race at Hillingdon, you’ll have no trouble staying in an E123 race

    Unless it’s a Nat B 😀

    TiRed
    Full Member

    There is a difference between “staying with” and racing 😀 I think Hillingdon GP is the only Nat B on that circuit – 80 laps.

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    Ahhh sorry, I didn’t realise you were just talking E123 at Hillingdon!

    Tuseday’s Thruxton results are out now for anyone that raced there.

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    My only experience is from a year of racing last year going from Cat4 to Cat2… my power numbers sit in the Cat2 banding for all but 1 min power.

    Good work there. I know some strong riders who’ve taken a long time to go from 3 to 2. Think if you really get stuck in, race a lot, and pick your races (i.e. 3’s only or 3/4’s for points) then it’s certainly doable if you have the right attributes. Nathb could go from 4 to 2 this year if he did this.

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    I basically just raced a local road league with a couple of crits chucked in to make up the numbers.

    My advantage over others was a background of racing 70.3 triathlons and the associated endurance that comes with it. No point in working on your 5 sec power if you can’t maintain your FTP over a 25m TT, in my opinion.

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    if you can’t maintain your FTP over a 25m TT, in my opinion.

    Your FTP is what you can maintain over a 25m TT 🙂

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    Yes, but how many people actually derive it like that… most riders I know have needed a fair bit of training to realise the FTP they achieve in a 20 min test over a full hour, and let’s be honest… everyone quotes the factored 20 min test number.

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Well yes, said before on this forum that it is a bit flawed and that everyone’s power curve is different. So basing your FTP on some percentage of a shorter duration max, unless the percentage has been specifically determined for you, is a bit flawed. And then deriving your shorter duration effort levels as generic percentages of that value (like most workouts in TR or Zwift do) is a bit silly. For example, taking Cavendish and Froome and suggesting that their 1 minute interval training efforts should be based on the same percentage of their 60 MP would clearly be ridiculous.

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    2000 🙂

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