Get to work this morning and there's a car parked on our land, the land in question being a site we're developing for houses. Hes parked right up to our fence and partially blocking the access. We needed to load lorries with a 3cx for the muck shift so the car is in the way to do it safely. So I got the mini digger and dragged it out of the way, three people watching as witnesses and absolutely no damage was caused!! When the owner came up later he was a little upset!!
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So did we break the law today?? Car removal content.
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Posted 1 year ago #
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Yes you did break the law and how do you know you did no harm? He might have been an idiot for parking there but I suspect you could have knocked on a few doors to find out whos it was before dragging it about.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Walked half the street knocking, usual helpful responses. They know what we're on with yet the ejit still parks there. The car was most certainly not damaged as it was out of gear and the strap attached to his tow bar, lifted up and wheeled back on the front wheels. It would have looked far worse had I run the muckshift past it all day!!! Are we expected to stand a machine and driver at 24 an hr, 3 lorries and drivers and two site staff till he decides to come up and move it??
Posted 1 year ago # -
And as he drives off he finds out the hydraulic pipes for the brakes have been severed in the process of moving it...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ooo, forum legal experts' debate. What law was that then coffeeking?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Are we expected to stand a machine and driver at 24 an hr, 3 lorries and drivers and two site staff till he decides to come up and move it??
Legally, yes, at which point I think you'd be fine to call the police as it probably falls under obstruction laws IIRC (especially if there's one of your vehicles already in the area being worked on).
It's tampering with a motor vehicle, good for 6 months max IIRC? But so is putting leaflets under the windscreen, so I'm not sure how likely you are to get prosecuted. If it wasn't obvious that you needed access (to someone who isn't building there etc) then I'd say you're out of order and I'd go more than mental at you. If I'd cheekily parked there knowing it was an active building site I'd expect something to happen.
(I'm not a legal eagle, just putting 2 and 2 together - I know it's illegal to park in front of someone's drive and block them in (obstruction) and I know it's illegal to tamper with a vehicle, section 25 of the RTA IIRC?).
Posted 1 year ago # -
Despite what the law/stw says, you were right. We need more of no nonsense action in this world! Good on you.
Posted 1 year ago # -
And as he drives off he finds out the hydraulic pipes for the brakes have been severed in the process of moving it...
Ah, yes of course. We all know how brake pipes are prone to severing every time a car moves....
The car was most certainly not damaged as it was out of gear and the strap attached to his tow bar, lifted up and wheeled back on the front wheels
Posted 1 year ago # -
I would have waited til there were no witnesses and then just pushed it out the way with the bucket.. live by the sword die by the sword and all that..
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ah, yes of course. We all know how brake pipes are prone to severing every time a car moves....
Indeed, but you might have damaged the tow bar by loading it in the opposite direction to its normal loading (upward) and then weakened it for next time it's passing a bus full of primary school children with a 1.5 ton trailer on the back....
Posted 1 year ago # -
Despite what the law/stw says, you were right. We need more of no nonsense action in this world! Good on you.
That woudl be taking the law into your own hands, which is great when the person doing it has common sense and forethought. Unfortunately, 50% of the population have a below average IQ and sod all common sense, unable to comprehend the possible failure modes and complications of what they've done.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Indeed, but you might have damaged the tow bar by loading it in the opposite direction to its normal loading (upward) and then weakened it for next time it's passing a bus full of primary school children with a 1.5 ton trailer on the back....
But surely the onus is on the driver of said vehicle to check that the towbar is in a secure, safe condition to be used before he attatches anything to it?
Posted 1 year ago # -
tow bars normally have a limit of 75kg for vertical load - lifting the car up by one is probably very bad as you've probably put a 700kg static load on it.
If it were my car I'd be taking it to a garage for an inspection and sending you the bill.
Having said that I'd also understand you beign pee'd off and wouldn't have parked there in the first place.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Good on you, bet he doesnt park there again
Posted 1 year ago # -
I know it's illegal to park in front of someone's drive and block them in (obstruction)...
No it's not
We need to know what model of car it was now so that we can establish if it can legally tow a 1.5 ton trailer
Posted 1 year ago # -
And we have a "won't someone please think of the children" post.
Thread closed.
Posted 1 year ago # -
At the end of it all, you have 3 witnesses to confirm that he parked it where he found it on his return and he would appear to be a little confused about where he thought he had parked it. Probably shouldn't be allowed to drive in that mental state...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ha ha good old stw, love the extreme responses from both sides. There was genuinely no malice intended, it was just in the way, I can quite honestly say it would have been wrecked if we'd left it where it was. And I think it'd be all on towing a bike rack let alone a 1.5 tonne trailer!!
Posted 1 year ago # -
If it is illegal Jeremy Beadle was lucky to stay out of gaol that cheeky monkey was always moving cars and pushing them of docks etc.
On one hand it's a big deal but on the other hand it's not a big deal.
Posted 1 year ago # -
On one hand it's a big deal but on the other hand it's not a big deal.
ah, the old ones are the best!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Once many years ago our rugby team bus got blocked in by a mini outside the sport hall at Huddersfield Poly. The entire team picked up the offending car and carried over a low wall before gently setting it down in the Rector's garden. It may still be there now.
Posted 1 year ago # -
This would have learned him:
Posted 1 year ago # -
With that many people around - I'm surprised you couldn't have manually lifted the rear wheels and dragged it a yard or two...
Posted 1 year ago # -
With that many people around - I'm surprised you couldn't have manually lifted the rear wheels and dragged it a yard or two...
Health & safety of course!
Posted 1 year ago # -
(deleted, I can't read)
Posted 1 year ago # -
If it was a BMW or an Audi then you where perfectly within your rights to move it
Posted 1 year ago # -
naedeyw - Member
I know it's illegal to park in front of someone's drive and block them in (obstruction)...
No it's not
Yes it is as you are blocking access and the vehicle can be removed / ticketed for causing an obstruction.Posted 1 year ago # -
Yes it is as you are blocking access and the vehicle can be removed / ticketed for causing an obstruction.
And which particular law is that then?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Fancy coming clean on PedantTrackWorld.
Should have known better.Good on you for dragging the ejuds car out the way.
Posted 1 year ago # -
And which particular law is that then?
That's why I deleted my edit. It's illegal to obstruct a road, not a residence. Unless you're in London.
Posted 1 year ago # -
In answer to your original question, no you did not break the law. Tampering with a vehicle :-
"If, while a motor vehicle is on a road or on a parking place provided by a local authority, a person—
(a)gets on to the vehicle, or
(b)tampers with the brake or other part of its mechanism,
without lawful authority or reasonable cause he is guilty of an offence."
so you would need to mess with the mechanics of the vehicle not just move it and the offense has the defense reasonable excuse which you would easily run.
The other relevant offense would be interfering with a motor vehicle which requires the intent to do another act such as steal when you interfere with the vehicle.So not relevant in your case.
Criminal Damage requires you to intend or be reckless about causing damage and you were not and indeed took steps to avoid doing so.
The only possible offense is TWOC, while i will happily get drawn in to a row with at least two coppers on here about legal issues of actus reus and mens rea in Twoc, the bottom line is in this case you did not use the vehicle as a vehicle merely moved it and there is a case that says moving a car round a corner as a prank was not a crime which clearly covers your scenario.You can go to bed and sleep the sleep of an innocent.
I got bonus points off the wife for not getting drawn in to this earlier and taking her out for tea instead.(post hastily edited to hide stupidity)
Posted 1 year ago # -
Nice work crank boy, a fine response backed up with use of Latin (?). I shall sleep easier tonight. I do love stw's expert non lawyers with a big opinion though!!
Posted 1 year ago # -
But if you're blocking access i.e. a driveway then you're causing an obstruction. Thats what local plod told me a few years ago when my old neighbour was being a nobber anyway.
Instead of being a smart arse naedeyw, feel free to correct / educate? Im quite happy to be corrected if my knowledge is incorrect. You must be a copper with that some of attitude (or cynic-al with a new login!)!Posted 1 year ago # -
It's definately illegal to block access where there's a dropped kerb, as my sister has recently had two cars lifted from outside her house on the grounds of that offence. Well that's what the old bill told her anyway.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Used to pick cars up with taillifts on lorries and shift them, that's when they weren't left unlocked anyway.
Posted 1 year ago #
Topic Closed
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