uplink…. why am i a tosser? help me out here i’m struggling to see what was offensive about my post… its 5 years before the OP’s oldest gos to uni and thigns could change in millions of ways before then.

Midlifecrashes: i really have no idea what all the fuss is about.

i had to pay fees of £1000/year.

and i had to stay alive while i was at uni.

i borrowed £4000 per year. i borrowed £16000.

under my loan agreement, i pay back 10% of everything i earn over £15000. my repayments only just keep up with the interest, i will never be able to clear the loan.

under the new scheme, students will probably borrow about £10,000 per year, after 3 years most will owe about £30,000 to the student loans company.

most will never be able to clear the debt – just like me.

but they’ll only be paying back 10% of their earnings over £21,000.

their repayments will be lower than mine.

what’s the problem?

(this is a graduate tax in everything but name)

Btw the Lady Gaga thing was not a degree in Lady Gaga, it’s a sociology course that uses the eponymous as an example, to be taken as a small part of your degree education.

Why should an element of the population get a free ride to further education at the tax payers expense whilst the rest go out to work?

Because having an educated workforce is good for the wider economy?

uplink…. why am i a tosser? help me out here i’m struggling to see what was offensive about my post..

I think you have the wrong end of the stick there fella – I was referring to the OPs kids & that they may yet decide he’s a tosser & knows nothing. [as teenagers are prone to do]

What ahwiles said +1

Because having an educated workforce is good for the wider economy?

Argh but so is a solid manufaturing base, you need indians and chiefs, and probably more indians, no?

So those who are not educated are worth less?

Joemarshall speaks alot of truth.

Being privy to some of the funding discussions around this issue at my local University, the price for lower fees will be more overseas students prepared to pay A LOT more, making up a larger proportion of the UK higher education population and lower student numbers overall.

The current government policy seems determined to run Universities more as commerical enterprises, rather than support them as essential national assets so market forces will drive them.

Tiger6791 – Member
“Because having an educated workforce is good for the wider economy?”

Argh but so is a solid manufaturing base, you need indians and chiefs, and probably more indians, no?

manufacturing, that’ll need engineers then? – where do they train?

there’s no money to be made for this country by the mass-production of widgets and nails.

we could never compete with china, india, africa, etc.

we need degree qualified engineers and scientists to do the clever stuff – that’s where the money is.

Argh but so is a solid manufaturing base, you need indians and chiefs, and probably more indians, no?

Not when your Indians are not cost effective and their jobs are being done in.. well.. India.

sweet 🙂 yep definitely the wrong end of the stick, my fault.

back to the thread:

OH left uni with 22k owed to student loans company, currently earning so paying back, but paying back between 20-50pounds a month, which is less than the interest each month, so her student debt is increasing now she’s left uni.

they started charging interest after she recieved her first payment in the first year of uni…3 years before starting to pay back!

she will never be able to pay it back unless she leaves her chosen line of work (helping people).

if it helps stop the instantly critical minds of STW judging her she worked every summer full time, evening jobs for the 2nd and 3rd year, managed to get out of her overdraft every summer and managed to run a car the whole time. never asked or was given money by her parents once towards uni or living costs.

most will never be able to clear the debt – just like me.

…. i cant imagine being in that situation and i dont know how my OH handles it.

manufacturing, that’ll need engineers then? – where do they train?

You can train technicians through apprenticeships – the skills shortage is a real and present issue. Not everyone ont he shop floor doing the graft needs an MEng. However, there is also a shortage of qualified engineers coming out of univerisites.

manufacturing, that’ll need engineers then? – where do they train?

at the gym?

So those who are not educated are worth less?

Depends how you measure it.

Are they worth less as people? No.
Is what they are doing less worthy? No.
Will they, on average, generate as much wealth as, on average, a graduate? No.

In wouldn’t worry too much, assuming the current rate of repayment stays the same the debt gets written off well before its paid off, you have to earn over about £33k to actualy pay it off before the cut off at arround 25 years if you have arround £18k with the SLC!

It just comes off my pay as another line, about the same as my pension. If it wasn’t that it would be the same ammount in extra tax I suppose.

Spoon – 2008 grad with a masters and 4 years of £3.5k loans earning an above average wage and not sweating it.

Unless they massively ramp up the repayment rate this is all just a load of hot air and puts off paying for universities for 25 years when the current Grads en-mass ‘default’ on their loans.

Typcal Engineer pay? £30k?
Tyical shop floor workers pay? – £16k?

£14k a year extra over a career spanning 40 years? £560k more!

Think paying for that further education is feasible!!!

if it helps stop the instantly critical minds of STW judging her she worked every summer full time, evening jobs for the 2nd and 3rd year, managed to get out of her overdraft every summer and managed to run a car the whole time. never asked or was given money by her parents once towards uni or living costs.

She shouldn’t have worked and she should have borrowed more student loans. She’d be no worse off financially.

😉

It doesn’t cost £6k a year though.

Its close to that actually – once full econimic costing is covered. I.e. cost of staff (not just lecturers but admin etc. etc.) buildings, IT etc. So the £6k would reflect the economic cost of putting a student through a course. Because education has been cheap for years it just seems like a lot now the full cost is exposed. In reality that is not a lot of money for an education that will serve you for the rest of your career as well as a life experience that will develop potential in other ways. Maybe students will also be inclined to work harder on their degree if they are having to pay more – at the moment we see a lot of srudents here being bone idol. A bit of money stress might focus the mind…

I seem to remember Clegg promised to abolish fees when they were elected. They weren’t, were they?

So he isan MP, in the government , in the cabinet, the deputy PM but he has not been elected.
I se eyour point but clearlyhe has sold out

I believe tuition fees are wrong, I believe they need to be abolished, I want to do it as soon as possible,

he said this at this years conference after the election but said they needed to be realistic and then said they would have the fairest package at the next election for students 😯 Presumably so they can ignore that again.
I did not think you were insulting me you seem polite for here FWIW. Just annoys me , which encourages some. Cheers

I fully expect nearly every uni to charge £9k, we were told before that £3k would be the exception and how did that turn out?

So those who are not educated are worth less?

If I am hiring someone for a £40 – £50k position on my team. I will rarely interview unless they have a degree. There is a lot of choice on the job market.

£560k more!

well, they’d pay an additional £120k in taxes over the same period so one might agrue that they are paying more back to society and justifying society paying for their education already without the additional cost of repaying fees?

philconsequence – Member

“most will never be able to clear the debt – just like me”

…. i cant imagine being in that situation and i dont know how my OH handles it.

s’easy really, i basically pay a bit more tax than a non-graduate.

if i’m honest, i don’t really mind…

s’why i really don’t see the problem with the new Uni-Fees thing.

I fully expect nearly every uni to charge £9k

Cynical but I agree.

If you have XXX amount of prospective students chasing x courses then its good ol supply and demand.

Any courses that people aren’t falling overthemselves to suscribe to and you’ll lower your prices slightly..

LHS – Member

Typcal Engineer pay? £30k?
Tyical shop floor workers pay? – £16k?

£14k a year extra over a career spanning 40 years? £560k more!

Think paying for that further education is feasible!!!

bloody hell! – £30k typical – my hairy ar53. who do i have to kill to get that much?

What about this:

Key worker degrees: Teaching, Doctors, Nurses, etc – 100% subsidy if you pass and enter that job

Key economy degrees: Software Eng, Civil Eng, Vet, Architect, Law you know vocational stuff – Current System

Lifestyle Degrees: Journalism, Surfing science, Film Studies, English Lit: New ConLeb System

Pointless Degrees: Sociology – 20k Per year paid up front
🙂

If you have XXX amount of prospective students chasing x courses then its good ol supply and demand.

Any courses that people aren’t falling overthemselves to suscribe to and you’ll lower your prices slightly

The canny universities will specialise – fill the course with students each year at top-whack rates. Those that maintain a ‘universal’ approach, trying to make popular faculties subsidise under-subscribed ones, will be the ones in trouble…….

bloody hell! – £30k typical – my hairy ar53. who do i have to kill to get that much?

I was actually under-selling that too!

I se eyour point but clearlyhe has sold out

See earlier about compromises. Sometimes it’s necessary.

er, i AM an engineer – wiv a dergree an everthing.

earning nowhere near £30k…

nor are most of my better paid colleagues…

LHS/Ahwiles – with a bit of experience maybe – starting salary with a good degree and CV is mid-20’s these days. With 10 years on the clock add about 10K that’s the experience of me and the guys I graduated with.

Yup, you could be right midlifecrashes.
It will depend largely on how much the government cuts uni funding. It costs around 7K a year across the whole uni cohort, so I’d expect the figure to rise to at least that.
At least the stupid levy thing has been dropped. That would have meant charging 8K to a student so that the uni could get 7K in income, and the student paying 1K to the government for the privilege.

er, i AM an engineer – wiv a dergree an everthing.

earning nowhere near £30k…

nor are most of my better paid colleagues..

Really? How long ago did you get chartered?

bristolbiker – Member

LHS/Ahwiles – with a bit of experience maybe – starting salary with a good degree and CV is mid-20’s these days. With 10 years on the clock add about 10K.

not round here it’s not.

(starting salary 7 years ago = £17,000. less than i was earning as a draughtsman before uni)

Hmm, ok, I have a lot of engineers with degrees who have worked for me over the years and the salaries were well over £30k. Anyway, the example still stands, just the figures might change slightly.

not round here it’s not

You’re in the wrong place then!!

Pointless Degrees: Sociology – 20k Per year paid up front

I take it social workers aren’t one of your protected key workers then? 🙂

See earlier about compromises. Sometimes it’s necessary

I agree the coalition requires some degrees of freedom for coopperation/compromise etc but this is capitulation and a reversal of their stated position NOT a compromise ? What use is a politician if their word is meaningless and they may do the reversal of what they said and stood for? We have done this debate before.

IanMunro – Member

Pointless Degrees: Sociology – 20k Per year paid up front

I take it social workers aren’t one of your protected key workers then?

To become a social worker you will need a university degree in social work. (not Sociology)