Wow. It’s like 1988 2007 all over again.

OH just had to explain what “Red Tories” were to our 4-year-old, though – she saw a big banner saying “Red Tories Out”

Bet she was pleased she’d asked! 🙁

I bet PM Churchill, after WWII, thought that the formation of EU meant the British could be in charged etc. Hey PM Churchill are you turning in your grave yet? Your future weaklings have practically negotiated away all that the nation’s rights and “independence” by bowing to shite technocrat like this …

Bet she was pleased she’d asked!

Probably was – always wants to know stuff. It can be quite exhausting, especially before I’ve had my first coffee of the morning. I once ended up agreeing to show her how to make gunpowder – luckily she got distracted by something but she’ll remember eventually.

Your future weaklings have practically negotiated away all that the nation’s rights and “independence” by bowing to shite technocrat like this doing everything the US tells us to do

FTFY

epicyclo – Member
fasternotfatter – Member
…Isn’t democracy a wonderful thing.
It will be, when we get it.

We had the referendum the SNP wanted.

Really, you defeated separatists really come across as what Dr. Spooner would have described as a bunch of shining wits.

bencooper – Member

Your future weaklings have practically negotiated away all that the nation’s rights and “independence” by bowing to shite technocrat like this doing everything the US tells us to do

FTFY [/quote]

Are you saying Mexican is in charged? 😆

Are you saying Mexican is in charged?

Yes? Or No? To be honest I don’t understand the question.

teamhurtmore – Member

So just because you lost the vote, the issue becomes undemocratic???

I’m pretty sure you’re intentionally misunderstanding tbh. The referendum was democratic of course. But the result has meant the continuation of an overtly undemocratic system, with unelected lawmakers (some of whom get the job for being religious leaders ffs, but only as long as they’re from the right sect of christianity) and good old fptp.

There used to be a joke among E’burgh taxi drivers at the airport about the London shuttle – you could tell which plane it was because when the engines stopped you could hear (the English) whining, I think the target of that joke needs changing.

Given the non-stop whine-a-thon you seem to be having, I’d disagree with that last sentence.

Really, you defeated separatists really come across as what Dr. Spooner would have described as a bunch of shining wits.

The only whining I’m hearing is from the likes of you, obviously annoyed that we wont get back in our box.

It is an oddly persistent view, that since we lost the referendum we should all give up on the idea of independence and just accept the status quo. Imagine if that applied in ohter situations:

“The Tories won the last election, so Labour voters should stop supporting Labour?
“Your footbal team lost, so you should stop supporting them and start supporting a winning team”

Realy, I think it’s being wishful. The No people know they won, but they feel like they lost. Labour, especially, know that they’re in serious trouble in Scotland, so are trying to desperately pretend the whole thing didn’t happen – witness Gordon Brown’s ridiculous “press reset” speech.

bearGrease – Member
…Really, you defeated separatists really come across as what Dr. Spooner would have described as a bunch of shining wits.

Defeated? You’re only defeated when you give up.

You may have noticed we haven’t given up.

And will not.

Ever.

Maybe it is time to accept the result and instead focus on improving Scotland and the UK. There is no mandate for another referendum in the foreseeable future.

You may have noticed we blah blah blah

Nobody is listening. You can always emigrate from the UK if you don’t like the outcome of the once in a lifetime democratic vote.

It is an oddly persistent view, that since we lost the referendum we should all give up on the idea of independence and just accept the status quo. Imagine if that applied in ohter situations:

Other situations like if no had lost the referendum?

I’m sure you would be bending over backwards to accommodate the desire of the no voters to not give up on the chance of reunion with another referendum in a couple of years?

Fortunately the independent and cross party smith commission report should see an end to this whole pantomime…

ninfan – Member
…Fortunately the independent and cross party smith commission report should see an end to this whole pantomime…

Well, seeing as it’s being going on for over 100 years, that’s unlikely.

There is no mandate for another referendum in the foreseeable future.

Even you are not prepared to say there will never be another vote because we all know there will. That is why they wont give up.

Nobody is listening.

he said on the 7 th page of the thread

Fortunately the independent and cross party smith commission report should see an end to this whole pantomime just as ban hunting ended that pantomime 😈

FTFY

Potential import/export tariffs and a border to cross where you have to show your passport, this would not benefit Scotland at all.

Aw jeez not this stuff again

we never quite resolved the EU issue now did we

GOD PLEASE NO

http://www.oil-price.net/

No safe home in the Eurozone, no oil bonanza, no chance of an independent Scotland.

ninfan – Member

I’m sure you would be bending over backwards to accommodate the desire of the no voters to not give up on the chance of reunion with another referendum in a couple of years?

Within reason, yup- it’d take more than a couple of years of course, start a reunion campaign, get the mandate to pursue it in the general election, gain support from Westminster etc but why wouldn’t we? That’s the thing about democracy, you don’t go around telling people they never get the thing they want because they lost once in the past

Course, the No parties would all be totally against it- at least, that’s what they said in the referendum campaign, there’s no way back from independence and I think we established that everything they said was 100% true and definitely couldn’t change after a Yes vote 😉

bencooper – Member
It is an oddly persistent view, that since we lost the referendum we should all give up on the idea of independence and just accept the status quo. Imagine if that applied in ohter situations:

As in a yes vote?

Would you be arguing like the DO that this was a once in a lifetime decision, or that unionists should be give up on the idea of a union?

There was enough bllx spouted during the campaign can we not have a break now?

Slight hijack alert because Ben needs explanation … 😆

bencooper – Member

Are you saying Mexican is in charged?

Yes? Or No? To be honest I don’t understand the question. [/quote]

The migration of S.Americans(incl Mexican) to merica will inevitably result in a vote for a certain party. Therefore, if migration cannot be control a certain party will have an advantage over others. Hence, the “Mexican” is in charge coz they are just right at the border of merica and migration either legal or illegal mean one day they will be the majority voters. As a result, if British govt ” … doing everything the US tells us to do” it will be like saying follow the Mexican … 😆

Now, IMO if you are in EU and with free migration the balance of power will become imbalance as the new migrants will likely to vote for political party(s) that supports their values. Therefore, for political party(s) that wants to be in position of power they will do all they can to secure these votes and being in EU means they (political party(s)) will always get support …

My experience in N.Borneo is exactly that with mass migration within two generations (corrupted politicians granting voting rights/citizenship to illegal immigrants) that resulted in the local voting rights being diminished. i.e. the new migrants population is slowly overshadowing the locals. We have similar Union (like UK) with with three regional states forming a country but due to one region (where central govt is with the main political party) wanting to be in charge, they turn a blind eye or encourage the allocation of voting rights to the illegals (who due to same religion domination want to annex us in the long run).

Now, if British govt stays in EU then the likelihood of not having control over own destiny is very high. A bit like Scotland in UK where the power given to Scotland is negligible.

I bet the formation of EU immediately after WWII was to counter CCCP as Dear Leader Stalin was a bit eager to expand his territory.

Scotland has the dilemma of siding the lesser evil. For the time being it is “better the devil you know (than the devil you don’t)” and EU is the latter in evolution while remaining in UK might be a better option for now until Scotland can truly take charge of own destiny.

It is better to be poor and in charge of own destiny than be well off with your life in others’ hands bowing. You choose.

😛

Edit: Scotland will eventually be an independence country but the road ahead is tough because your “local” population is tiny. If the central govt wants to get very nasty all they need to do is simply move the prosperity of “London” to one part of Scotland and the population migration will be instant. Guess what … the new population will easily out vote the local to remain in UK.

Fortunately the independent and cross party smith commission report should see an end to this whole pantomime…

The Smith report that even the BBC are reporting was significantly watered down by Westminster parties before publication? The Smith report that’s only a bunch of recommendations, some recycled from the Calman Commission, that still has to get passed by Westminster?

Yes, no thanks.

I think we established that everything they said was 100% true and definitely couldn’t change after a Yes vote

😆

Would you be arguing like the DO that this was a once in a lifetime decision

The Deceitful one said once in a generation.

Asked if he would seek another referendum if there was a “No” vote on Thursday, the SNP leader said: “If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland – there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997.

“That’s what I mean by a political generation.

“In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, this is a once in a generation opportunity for Scotland.”

It really does not help your case if you call him a deceiver and then you inaccurately describe his statements. Damn them facts eh

was significantly watered down by Westminster parties before publication?

Really? the BBC says that changes happened “in the final days of the negotiations”

While the report makes it clear that

This report sets out the agreement reached between all five of Scotland’s main political
parties: Conservative, Green, Labour, Liberal Democrat and the SNP.

So, like it or not, the SNP and Green party were signatories to the final version of the report!

So 18 years then? Nice! See you all in 2032 to start the discussion.

Can a MOD please close this thread to stop another year long argument that changes no ones opinion.

Junky, he did day once in a lifetime

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11095210/Alex-Salmond-This-is-a-once-in-a-generation-opportunity-for-Scotland.html

From 1:15 seconds on the video linked

Marr: “Can you pledge that Alex Salmond will not bring back another referendum if you don’t win this one?”

Salmond: “well, thats my view, my view this a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime, opportunity for Scotland”

I am sure AS is delighted by the weight you put in his opinion now lets see if the mods feel the same abut your opinion 😉

I think it will take something extraordinary for that timescale to not be the case. However this opinion wont stop people campaigning for it anymore than it will stop you being pro the union and campaigning for them to STFU or as they might describe it silence the locals like an Imperialistic overlord 😀

EDIT : I think the bit before where he say yo have said it is once in a generation is that still your view and he goes “yes” is a little less ambiguous than your quote. In context he adds that phrase at the end of thirty seconds repeating its once in a generation. I stand by what I said but accept you [ and others] can labour the point if you so wish but its a little disingenuous and unfair, though not impossible, to argue it thus

I should also add damn them facts but aimed at me this time 😳 but i would still call it spinning/cherry picking if you listen to the whole bit.

See that’s the thing about him standing down as FM and leader of the SNP. He won’t be in a position to bring back another referendum.

Anyway, as I said back on Page 2 of this very thread..

17/18 years between Devo/Indy votes (1979, 1997, 2014) seems about right. I guess it will depend on how well these current proposals go down.
And as Junkyard says, the EU thing could make a big difference.

You never can predict the future: in a few years time Westminster might not be stuffed with an arrogant coterie of tossers, and the City of London not filled with self-serving blaggers. In which unlikely case we’ll all feel proud to be part of this once-great nation.

STW might not be full of argumentative gits. I suppose anything is possible.

Scotroutes, you don’t need reminding I am sure that Nicola Sturgeon used the same words as well including the once in a lifetime bit.. So just because we are rid of the deceitful one for now, doesn’t change what was said by yS proponents pre the result. I know they said a lot so false things during the process, are you now suggesting that we simply add this to a long list.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24147303

Beware, there is a lot of claptrap to endure before you get to the relevant bit

Of course she also said that a NO would mean no change which we can all see was yet another blatant untruth. Things have changed a lot – clearly.

More spinning than a merry go round but far less entertaining!!

Maybe it is time to accept the result and instead focus on improving Scotland and the UK. There is no mandate for another referendum in the foreseeable future.

To be fair. If your belief is that Scotland will be a better place once independent. Moving on from from losing the vote is trying to change public opinion. In order to create a new mandate for an independence vote.

The thing that intrigues me is will any moves to win over more of the middle classes result in alienating those at the bottom, thus generating higher levels of voter apathy amongst that segment of society.

You never can predict the future: in a few years time Westminster might not be stuffed with an arrogant coterie of tossers, and the City of London not filled with self-serving blaggers. In which unlikely case we’ll all feel proud to be part of this once-great nation.

Emm….. sounds like your referring to a time when this was the case. Link please as I’m not aware of it ever being the case.

SOG, odd then that more people voted to remain part of such a dreadful once-great nation than the proposed utopia offered by independence!?!

At least, if it is another 17-20 years, yS might have done their homework by then and save us all the embarrassment of another book of dreams.

What would you describe a manifesto as if not a book of dreams? No political party ever delivers on it.

@ pieminster It is almost always the case. if you need links you will not be convinced.

@THM

4:42
Question: If you lose the referendum will that settle it for a generation?

Answer: Laughs/chuckles the SNP has always said in our view these events are a once in a generation event…probably a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I think you need to ignore the bits where they state their views and cherry pick [the bit they express with no certainity and some doubt ]if you wish to claim their stated view is that it is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

It really is that thread all over again and I am not doing this again THM is free to interpret what is said as he wishes but its driven by his politics as much as what is said.
I probably wont engage on it anymore
I possibly wont engage on it anymore

See what I did there 😉

🙂 at Minster of the pies

Can I claim it as deliberate 😉

Come the revolution, you can fight it out with Binners, for the job