While we seem to have multiple threads about skiing and snowboarding:

I think I've got weird-shaped feet. Despite buying good boots (Vans Cirro) that feel good and comfy when I first put them on, I frequently have to stop after a few runs, take them off and give my feet a rub. I seem to get a lot of pain down the outside edge of each foot.

So I was investigating getting them heat moulded. When I did this with my old boots they basically just heated them up and stuck my foot in them, which didn't really seem to improve them any.

But browsing about I found this article/review:
http://www.snocat.co.uk/Bootfitting.php

Which sounds like a considerably more in-depth approach.

Does anyone know anywhere in Edinburgh/Glasgow/Newcastle that does a proper fitting service like this?

If it's a muscular pain, it might be more to do do with your stance not being quite right, or with how you're using your feet to turn, rather than whether your boots fit correctly.

Might be worth playing around..

There must be some insoles that can help?

nedrapier: over the years I've varied my stance from an aggressive forward carvy stance (+25, +10) to my current duck-foot freestyle (+18 -12).

Not sure about how I use my feet to turn, though I am guilty on not bending my old knees enough.

bikemonkey: I tried SuperFeet but they didn't seem to help.

I had exactly the same issue, the only thing I have changed is to narrow my stance a little – about 1cm difference on the binding mount. I run duck too, not quite as aggressive as you (+15 -9). However if you where to widen it and force your backplates up a little it would make you bend your knees!!

would make you bend your knees

I remember whinging non-stop about the pain in my feet, blaming the boots, the bindings, everything except my stance. Spent a day forcing myself to bend my knees and hey ho, no pain. I still occasionally, maybe at the start of the week when I'm a bit rusty, have a day boarding without bending them and the pain is back straight away.

I had that. Would have to stop mid-run coz the pain was so bad. And then undoing them on the lift back up. Changed boots (twice) and changed bindings to P1s. Then, third set of boots worked (Northwave, size 44 – I'm normally a 46). I will *never* change them – or I'll stop riding.

This thread from another forum may be of use: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=37508

Hmm.. maybe I do need to work on my stance some more.

I know that I often don't bend my knees enough. I find the muscle/tendon below my calf is very tight and greatly restricts how much I can bend my knee with my foot flat on the floor/board.

Not sure why that would impact the outside edge of my feet though.

i have problems with my calf muscles when snowboarding – i think because cycling shortens them. so lots and lots of stretching might help to try and counteract it.

binding angles might affect how well you can bend your knees, so worth trying that. it may be that in the process of bending your knees your feet are trying to rotate to a more natural angle and causing pressure?

custom insoles are a must unless you have very generic feet, and the heat molding does reduce the break-in time of the boots (though it still might take a few weeks to get them properly broken in!)

If you don't bend your knees properly then put full forward lean on your bindings, that way you will have no choice but to bend them. This also improves the response of the board.

You can try adjusting the bindings and your stance but you are right in saying that heat treating the liners is a waste of time. A day or so of boarding and they will be moulded to your feet anyway. If none of that works then you could try a custom orthotic insole. It won't be cheap but it will almost certainly help. I got these for ski boots and that along with custom liners means that my ski boots are as comfortable as my boarding boots.

but no point whacking on the forward lean if you haven't got the flexibility in your achilles/calf muscles to start off with… will just lead to more discomfort.

Yep, I've tried that before and it just made my calfs sore as well, as I was constantly pushing back against the highback. Not to mention that it is very tiring and can be a bit too twitchy on boxes/rails/ice.

I do try to stretch and warm up properly before I start. I've even tried stretching it every day in the shower to try and lengthen it a bit, but I'm still "toight..toight like a tiger". 🙂

I see TSA do custom footbeds. Might give them a go.
http://www.snowboard-asylum.com/surefit.htm

Anyone for whom that is the case has more problems than ill fitting boots.

I never said that full lean would be comfortable though… 😉

Two things I can think of.

You're too ducked – knees forced too wide, weight onto outside of feet instead of on the balls

Your boots might be too narrow. Most brands have different fits. I was recommended Burton when I started and I stuck with them. Bindings to match the boots, Burton-Burton, Northwave-Drake, etc.

Edit – Try standing on the board in sock soles, no bindings. Squat down with your stance at the right width and see what sort of angles you're looking at, with your knees feeling strong as possible. I used a lot of duck when I learnt switch but when I took it off I found I was a lot stronger over the board.

Anyone for whom that is the case has more problems than ill fitting boots.

Well I probably drink too much, I have a very small penis, I worry a lot about my plans for the future, and I was told recently that I'm "Soooo opinionated dude" but I'm not sure any of that is relevant. 😉

You're too ducked – knees forced too wide, weight onto outside of feet instead of on the balls

Possible, though I only went duck relatively recently (year and a half ago), Before that I had an old-skool aggressive stance and I probably got more pain from that.

I've tried to set up my angles (using a similar technique to the one you described) so that when I bend my knees they extend out directly over the top of my foot.

Your boots might be too narrow.

Possible. I do have pretty big feet (size 11 UK). The boots feel comfy enough when I first put them on and I can run them very slack.

Bindings to match the boots

Boots are Vans Cirro, bindings are K2 Autos. No idea if that is a good match or not. They seem to fit okay though.

I find the muscle/tendon below my calf is very tight and greatly restricts how much I can bend my knee with my foot flat on the floor/board.

Didn't I see some youtube of you GrahamS? I thought it was because you're just crap! 😆 😛

No app on your iPhone for it?

Gosh, I'm funny today….not.

Didn't I see some youtube of you GrahamS? I thought it was because you're just crap!

LOL. I'm definitely no seasoned expert!

Nothing on youtube (as far as I know), but there is a recent video of me riding at Les Crosets (Portes du Soleil) on Picasa:
http://picasaweb.google.com/alastair.cay/LesCoret#5323454497320790354

In my defence it is mainly just messing about in off-piste freshies though, so it isn't really a fair reflection of my usual style. Honest 😀

No app on your iPhone for it?

If only.

does the pain kick in for the first few days or does it stick thru the season?

Never been lucky enough to do a season.
But on holidays it generally gets progressively worse as the holiday goes on.

I guess if it is stance related then towards the end of the holiday I may be boarding lazier as I get tired.

Just in from Xscape tonight. Ran my boots and bindings pretty loose and made an effort to "bend ze knees" more. Feet were pretty sore from the start but settled after half an hour without me having to take my boots off.

But then that's the way it goes. Sometimes it is livable with, other times I have to stop cos it is bringing tears to my eyes.

Oh and I checked my angles. One click less duck than I remembered.
Currently running +12, -6