Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 54 total)
  • [s]New[/s] Labour
  • Stoner
    Free Member

    So the end of the re-brand is nigh:

    It’s official: New Labour is teetering on the edge of extinction. Staff at the party’s Victoria Street headquarters have confirmed that the “new” is set to be removed from Labour’s email domain name. With the flick of switch, the most successful re-branding exercise in British politics will be consigned to history.

    It worked in it’s time, but does it have a positive legacy to pass on or just the fact that it no longer exists to make way for something else?

    Do we really believe they can come up with what people want?

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Thread title fail 😛

    5thElefant
    Free Member

    What’s the new brand going to be?
    I can’t believe it’s not Labour?

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

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    aracer
    Free Member

    Well to be fair, there aren’t too many other things from last century still being advertised as “new”.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    Thread title fail

    I knew the tags would fail DD.

    Fail pointing out FAIL! 🙂

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    U-turn FAIL. 😛

    ziggy
    Free Member

    Oo yes what would the rebranding be?

    Labour – We’re not quite Conservative

    Stoner
    Free Member

    The lady is not for turning!

    kimbers
    Full Member

    how about Big Labour
    to go with daves big society

    anyone else think daves speech about big society being his mission is all getting a bit tony blair messianic

    and i cant see nu labour changing while balls is in the ascendance

    noteeth
    Free Member

    “Labour-in-vain”?

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Labour of Love
    Labour Pains
    Anything but Tory Bastards

    chakaping
    Free Member

    anyone else think daves speech about big society being his mission is all getting a bit tony blair messianic

    Except even he doesn’t believe the guff that’s coming out of his mouth.

    I’m going for Cheap Labour, that’s got to be a winner in “the current economic climate”.

    aracer
    Free Member

    “We might have screwed up the economy, but we’re not as evil as that lot” Labour

    noteeth
    Free Member

    I like the suggestion in the NS comments – Hard Labour.

    monkeychild
    Free Member

    Labour; we aren’t actually labour at all, we just pretend to be rather unconvincingly. In fact we are psuedo tories.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    monkeychild – Member

    Labour; we aren’t actually labour at all, we just pretend to be rather unconvincingly. In fact we are psuedo tories.

    blue labour then?

    Elfinsafety
    Free Member

    Forget all that boring guff;

    ALL NEW TOTAL WIPEOUT FTW!

    midlifecrashes
    Full Member

    Labour Saving Device, innit.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    loves labour lost?
    premature labour?

    druidh
    Free Member

    Labour’s not working

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Old Labia

    Stoner
    Free Member

    snooorrrffff

    ziggy
    Free Member

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Do we really believe they can come up with what people want?

    I dont think you ever did believe this did you?

    I think the rebranding was succesfull in that Blair certainly destroyed any notion it was socialist and that its roots were working class.

    Time will tell what they can come up with but I think their master plan will be to sit back and watch as this lot fail Big Society for example looks like a Millenium Dome vanity project for example
    Perhaps everything will be great and teh private sector has fueeled employment and growth and we all help out but I remain to be convinced. It is just poosible I am wrong though. As always the economy and percieved success will be a mor elikely indicator of who will win

    Itis unlikely that Labour will do a manifesto that is so bad it will make then umelectable. the Milliband leader is rather weak though

    Stoner
    Free Member

    Anything remotely looney-leftie will make labour unelectable.

    The only reason they got votes in ’97- is because it’s re-brand attracted enough of the centre right who didnt want to be associated with the conservative party. It didnt change these voters politics on the way though really did it?

    There just isnt a sufficient body of genuine left wing voters in the country to make a left-wing manifesto electable IMO.

    allthepies
    Free Member

    The only reason they got votes in ’97- is because it’s re-brand attracted enough of the centre right who didnt want to be associated with the conservative party

    Didn’t GrizzlyGus mention on here that he was a one-man poster machine in that-there London, making loads of NuLab posters for the ’97 election ?

    GG, doing his bit for NewLabour 😆

    Stoner
    Free Member

    I dont recall, and I would never want to cast nastursiams on GG’s political affiliations 🙂

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Stoner – yes you are absolutley correct in what you say re centre voters and getting their vote. I think the vast majority of folk – say 80% of those who actually vore will always vote the way they do – or certainly not switch from left to right parties or vice versa.
    The floating voters who will/have voted for either party are the ones who ultimately decide elections and will be courted by all parties. Ther eis nothing the Tories could do to make me vote for them and I doubt here is anything labour could do to make Flash vote for them for example.

    I agree the far left wont get elected but neither will the far [non racist] right – say UKIP of which a fair few tory voters will agree with most of what they say for example

    Stoner
    Free Member

    I think UKIP is more “electable” than the British Communist Party.

    I dont think UKIP are inherently racist. A little jingoistic and probably over-nationalistic perhaps (and you could probably say the same about the SNP) but I think it’s a bit disingenuous to lump them in with the fascists and the BNP. (BTW I’m a europhile, not a natural UKIP supporter)

    Its one reason why I think AV will be a good thing – rather than creating stalemate, I think it will give the opportunity for minority parties to influence policy far beyond their democratic mandate by wielding their contribution to government majority in even more fractured coalition administrations. Our two party, FPTP system creates a very boggy, un-satisfying grey splurge around the centre right. No conviction to it!

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    I suspect that UKIP would get more votes under than a communist one.
    I don’t think UKIP are racist [neither will the far [non racist] right – say UKIP – was my phrase] but yes nationalistic.
    Re EU personally I don’t care geographically where the govt is when they ignore me. Overall I am ambivalent part of me thinks brotherhood of man and universal representation. part think bureaucratic unrepresentative behemoth

    Don’t think AV will change the system at all. I don’t even think it is technically proportional is it not just a representational system?
    I want to vote say UKIP will they win in my area NO so still no point voting for them but now I get mor ethan one choice if I want why can’t I just have the choice i want rather than the least offensive one left.
    I much prefer PR threshold + % = seats but it does erode the constituency link and gives way too much power to the central bureaucracy of each party.
    I think AV has been chosen to actually ensure that small parties don’t get any additional power/very few if any additional seats unlike almost every other PR system. I am pro PR and rather undecided as I don’t like this system at all. If it wins it will stay [ my lifetime as we don’t do radical change here] if it looses opponents will say we have had our vote.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Didn’t GrizzlyGus mention on here that he was a one-man poster machine in that-there London, making loads of NuLab posters for the ’97 election ?

    GG, doing his bit for NewLabour

    No, I stopped supporting the Labour Party in 1995 precisely because of New Labour. I have never voted or done any election work of any description for Labour since then.

    In fact in 1997 I was deeply concerned with New Labour winning the election, arguing as I did, that a New Labour government would not represent any significant improvement over a Tory one.

    As it happens I actually went further, and said that New Labour winning the general election would be seriously detrimental to British politics, as it would result in there being no effective left-wing opposition in Parliament – apart from a handful of Liberal Democrat and Plaid Cymru MPs.

    I accused many on the left who despite all the evidence concerning how New Labour would behave once in office, but nevertheless still supported Labour in ’97, of being in denial. I summed it up at the time as wishful thinking on their part that Tony Blair was some sort of “closet socialist”.

    Abandoning Labour on ’95 was no easy decision on my part, and not least because not only did I for many years invest a lot of time and effort in party election work (everything from knocking on doors/leafleting to carpentry work in party offices) but I considered the two Labour MPs elected in Croydon in ’97 as personal friends. In later years I was forced to publicly denounce them – on one occasion, in the lead up to the Iraq war, with one sitting next to me.

    In the ’97 general election I canvassed for the Liberal Democrats which I continued to support until Nick Clegg became leader in 2007. Like Blair before him, I didn’t need to wait until Clegg achieved power before figuring out what sort of politician he was. Although I have to admit that in both cases I did not foresee the total extent of their lies and treachery.

    Who I support in local and national elections is solely dependant on what I consider serves the best interests of the ordinary British working people. It often bears little semblance to my own personal political commitment. As an anti-Trot/anti-ultra leftist, I strive for immediate gains for the working-classes. Not simply for an offer of a promised Utopia.

    And right here and now, what would serve the best interests of ordinary British people, would be a social-democratic alternative to the 30 years of creeping neo-liberal market fundamentalism. I would if necessary, even support a One Nation Tory with that aim. I am however neither a social-democrat nor a Tory.

    The “one-man poster machine in that-there London” refers to a pre ’95 occasion when for London-wide local elections, as part of an election team, I cut to size the timber and board for the majority of the ‘Vote Labour’ garden stake posters – well certainly for South London anyway.

    Elfinsafety
    Free Member

    Got yer computer sorted then Ernie?

    craigxxl
    Free Member

    Ernie nicely put but as someone who has taken a left stance for a long time I’d like to hear your thoughts on the current shadow cabinet and their leader.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Yup, all sorted.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    craig – the jury’s still out imo. At the moment I’m not overly optimistic, although Labour appear to be maybe stumbling in vaguely the right direction.

    Part of the problem is that Tony Blair systematically destroyed all democracy within the Labour Party, or “changed the structures” as he preferred to call it. For the Labour Party to renew itself, and once again become the mass party which represents ordinary working people, it must have the highest level of involvement and democratic debate.

    At the moment all power is concentrated in the hands of whoever is leader, that needs to change. I see little sign of any commitment in that respect from Ed Miliband, but then that’s hardly surprising – and not least because Labour Party leaderships have historically only embraced progressive policies and tactics when under pressure, often intense pressure. The unions at least, are weak and lacking in strong radical motivation. And a challenge from the constituency parties is not particularly on the cards as the party has over the years since ’97, lost its most committed and best members.

    aracer
    Free Member

    The more fundamental question, ernie, is how left wing a party is actually electable nowadays? I suspect the answer to that might be more to the left than was the case in ’97, because rightly or wrongly the current lot are going to get blamed for all the current mess, hence making Ed’s job a lot easier than it might otherwise have been given the state of Labour. But will it be left enough for you? I suspect that the sort of left-wing party you wanted back in ’97 would have struggled for electoral success even against Major, and would likely have only lasted one term.

    allthepies
    Free Member

    Apologies Ernie for tainting you with the NuLab slur 😉 I see you’re a better man than that.

    yossarian
    Free Member

    It seems to me that we’ve come full circle – and nothing has really changed. Almost all traditional voters still vote for one of the big two with a minority still plugging away for whatever their particular bugbear is.

    For me the biggest revelation of new labour is new name same old shit. AV may or may not make things better, a serious and far reaching overhaul of the system is certainly required and perhaps it’s the first step.

    Iggle piggle’s big society is a nice idea but fundementally flawed in it’s execution. Change cannot come from the centre – it’s you and me doing things for ourselves whether government facilitates it or not that makes the difference.

    bullheart
    Free Member

    What about Labour’d?

    aracer
    Free Member

    Change cannot come from the centre – it’s you and me doing things for ourselves whether government facilitates it or not that makes the difference.

    There is no such thing as society?

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 54 total)

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