I am organising a tour on my bike so space, weight and cost is important and I have never really used sleeping mats.

Everyone seems to think they keep you loads warmer. Do they?

If they are worth having can anyone recommend a CHEEP small one?

they significantly improve your comfort (as does making a makeshift pillow). Thermarest 3/4 are effective for their size/cost – they also make a number of smaller/lighter ones too.

Alpkit might be worth checking out for cheaper options and, although I dont own one my assumption based on their stuff that I do own, is that they will be good quality and functionally fine.

Vango do them for under £20ish. We have three!

http://www.vango.co.uk/sleeping-bag-accessories/trek-standard.html

They do three sizes and three different types – the one linked to is the smallest and lightest.

They do make a significant difference. You really have to pick your compromise. Closed cell foam are cheap light and effective – but bulky. Thermarest are a bit comfier, a bit less bulky but significantly heavier

I use foam ones – I don't find the bulk difficult to pack. Tehy go on the rack on top of the panniers

Jeepers – the weight of the one surf mat has linked to – 900 g! My foam mat is 130 g

Yes they make a significant difference, your sleeping bag offers no insulation to the ground when compressed. Cheapest is roll mat jobby, can be as cheap as £5.

I've a alpkit wee artic which is much more comfortable. I also carry a small peace of cut down roll mat that I use to sit on and place that under my feet if they get cold.

I use the Alpkit Wee Artic for bivvy trips but they have now been replaced with these

http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16537&category_id=289

Pretty light and cheap. Or you can go for the full length lightweight one

http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16531&category_id=289

The Alpkit ones are good, but Thermarests are better – less bulky, lighter, etc.

I've the alpkit wee aric one, its ace 🙂 Even gets used if I'm kiping on someones couch as its more comfortable

what are the self inflating ones like? comfy?

I just nipped down to tisos 'cos I am thinking of getting thermostats and the chair attachments – getting a bit old for sleeping on the ground and not having a seat with a backrest!

Thermarests are £45 – £110 and weigh half a kilo upwards! compared to a foam mat at 130 g ish.and £20

Jeezo – thats a lot of extra weight – add another 170 g for the bits to make it into a seat. Gawd knows you much it would cost to lose that 400 – 700 g off your bike. I worry about every gramme in my camping kit

TJ, dont worry about loosing if off the bike – have a hot curry the night before.

soon shed that much after a vidaloo

What you want is a balloon bed… weighs just 100g and packs down to the size of a tin of beans.

Sorted…

what are the self inflating ones like? comfy?

Quite comfy – but an airbed is a lot comfier!

surfmat, yeah, but I can't be bothered with pumping them up and then getting the air out, and they always seem to get punctured!

depends how lightweight you want to go…

this guy is seriously hardcore and seems to have a lot of experience

http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.com/

BUBBLE WRAP!!!

i'm still not 100% sold on the idea but i've got a tour coming up and i want to do it super lightweight so this must be the way to go!

surfmat, yeah, but I can't be bothered with pumping them up and then getting the air out, and they always seem to get punctured!

Get one then – very easy to stow away, they keep you warm and they are comfier than foam roll mat thingies.

I've considered this Air Mat, but usually, if I'm doing some bivi seriously, I use closed cell foam like TJ. Cheap, lightweight and you can lay it out on any surface without worries about a puncture.

If you're near a decathlon store and don't need a full length mat:

20 quid http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/a100-ultralight-self-inflating-17405871/

With Download festival in the offing and cranky elbows/shoulders I succmbed to a thermarest neo air recently. It's is a bit lighter/packs up a fair bit smaller than the rest of their range, tho' full length – looks a little bit like an old-style airbed, but it's dead comfy, being quite a bit thicker inflated. About another 20quid more than a prolite, material's not so heavyweight but whether there's much effect on durability I dunno (yet). I imagine the standard seat/backrest thing they do for their other mats wouldn't work either.

Thermarests arent about weight, their function is comfort for minimum pack volume. A closed cell foam roll will not offer the same mount of suspension and insulation as a thermarest. That's not to say that a it doesnt offer enough suspension and insulation for your needs on a summer bivvy trip across a mossy hill.

Stoner – I have used foam mats for 3 season camping and on rough and rocky terrain. Adequate down to -10 and on gravel/ stones

I am sure they are not as comfy as thremarests but its a lot of weight

but its a lot of weight

In the context, no, it isnt.
Youve surely seen my light-weight touring blog, featuring, egads, a thermarest. I would suggest that the benefit to performance of a comfortable deep sleep exceeds the savings of 250g.
The saving in pack volume is also greater than 50%.

And to confirm all that properly:

http://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/ccsleepingmats.html

Prolite 3/4 vs Karrimor 8mm

R-Value: 2.2 vs 1.5ish (based on comparison with higher spec Multimat Expedition at 295g)
Pack Vol: 1.8l vs 13.0L
Thickness: 25mm vs 8mm
Weight: 310g vs 200g

So, 30% more insulation, 200% more suspension, and 85% smaller pack for 100g more weight.

at the end of the day – if weight was that important then the top guys in the tour divide would be using them …..

all the guys ive seen use thermarests – because a good nights sleep is worth many grams in weight !

Interesting. The thremarests I looked at ( in Tisos) were all half a kilo or more – up to a kilo. My foam mat is 130 g

It does me fine – I find it perfectly warm and comfortable.. Mind you I didn't even use a foam mat for the first 20 yrs I went backpacking 🙂

With that one can you use the seat kit? That would be half the advantage to me

BUBBLE WRAP!!!

That's what I've always used for overnight races (ie Polaris/KIMM/OMM etc.) Works fine and is surprisingly robust. Obviously has the same pack size issues as a foam mat, but is a lot lighter. Not something which will last years, so in the longer term is far more expensive than a foam mat, but I'd happily take it on a multiday trip – though I'm thinking more long weekend than week long tour.

Personally I've never had a problem getting a good night's sleep on a foam mat or bubble wrap – if the only way to get a good night was with a self-inflating mattress, then the top KIMM/Polaris racers would use them – as it is they tend to use bubble wrap or balloon beds (I've never been totally convinced by the latter).

Go to alpkit.com and get the small one they do, its not the wee aric now they have replaced it with a new one, can't remember the name but they are great.

last time i went riding with a guy using a balloon bed – i laughed and laughed and laughed as i was lying in my bed watching him blow it up ….

FWIW i rarely use a thermarest when bivying due to space constraints in my packing – just pick your pitch carefully.

when i go to TD ill be packing a thermarest and it will be a thermarest thermarest not a cheap copy ….. ive used severeal and they just dont last some i have had last 4 days and others matters of months – i have friends with 10 – 15 year old thermarests that have seen dogs abuse and still work like new

woop – procured my self a thermarest neoair – very happy – shits on normal thermarests …..

although ill have to blow it up it went up quick in the shop compared to the balloon bed my mate had !

+1 for Alpkit, they rock. The Airic is discontinued now, but they've got a new range in. Well worth a look.

Yeah the near is quite nifty, got given one for a race and actually used it instead of my normal 3mm foam luxurious bed! It was warm and comfy which always makes a difference to me

Ive got a neoair and used it for a multiday bike race. Very comfy, light, packs down small, doesnt take long to inflate and deflate but expensive as most good things are. Highly recommended.

I got the neoai large because I need the width, oh the curse of broad shoulders. Its still only 550g and is massive, and the wieght wiil drop down to 350-400g when I build up the courage to do this

http://www.suluk46.com/RandD%20-%20RD6%20Neoair%20Modification.html

If only they would make a full width, 2/3 length mat to start with, it seems that they only make outdoor gear for skinny freaks.

Ahhhh NeoAir, my friend. I did the usual graduation route: Karrimat->Thermarest->NeoAir.

I was a bit like TJ, curmudgeonly about the need for self inflators and very resistant to the price…. Then I tried an early Thermarest. Blimey, what a revelation.

The NeoAir is another step up. Very compact when packed and very comfy if you don't go mad and blow too hard….. They do look a bit fragile (I wouldn't want to bivvy on stoney ground with one) and they aren't that light (410g for the medium). However….

I use a Fat Airic for valley/car camping and that is a beast… Must weight 2kg and is the size of a small house when packed but super comfy. I'm just waiting for the inevitable failure after buying a cheap(er) TR copy…

Its not so much the price as the weight that upsets me.

I have been known to do such things as cut the handle off my toothbrush to save a few grammes. Adding in a few hundred grammes is hard to do.

Yep me too TJ, it's just sometimes I feel the need to invest a little in comfort i.e. the ~250g premium needed to carry a full length NeoAir rather than my old 3/4 Karrimat (which will come out for the first time in 20 years later this summer for a continuous Cuillin traverse) provides soooo much more comfort.

I'm the bloke that weighs everything and, like you, chops bits off if there's an advantage. I just feel, on mulitday stuff, a good nights sleep is an investment and for that, I prefer an airmat.

IIRC, we had a similar discussion about a SPOT a few months ago? Incidently, that is proving really useful when out backpacking for 4-5 days on my Munro round to let SWMBO know I haven't been abducted by aliens/fallen down a gully/been buggered by a badger.

a SPOT?
AS I am getting older comfort is more important for sure – I find I sleep fine on a foam mat but what I really need is a seat – so a thermarest with the chair kit might well be in order. Not being able to sit comfortably is getting to me