Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 41 total)
  • Skills courses for XC – are they always worth it?
  • MentalMickey
    Free Member

    First off, let me say this.
    Spd pedals, waste of time if you ain’t winning races, more fool you for listening to advertising speil. FACT
    Elitist and snobby ‘look down on everyone else’ type attitudes, waste of time if you ain’t winning races and more importantly, PRIZE MONEY. FACT

    So, that’s two sets of twerps dealt with, with a much needed dose of reality that is sadly lacking on these forums.

    So now we move onwards and upwards.

    Skills courses for XC.

    I’ll start by saying that I do like that Jedi geezer, if I was ever to book a course, it would be with him and his gang. He seems a no nonsense, doesn’t suffer fools, no beating round the bush & down to earth type of guy, which is a breath of fresh air among all the pompous preening types that seem to infest the world of cycling.
    In fact, the pomposity reminds me of the music world very much so, you walk into a shop that sells guitars and get fully sneered at if you don’t have the skills to play some incredibly complicated riffs that involve almost breaking your wrists.

    Here’s the thing about MTB skills, it’s all about standing up, that’s it! Some of you are probably thinking I’m joking right now but I’m certainly not.
    The moment you discover that much of anything technical can be tackled by simply treating the bike like a horse being ridden by a jockey, it all clicks into place.
    You read magazines, listen in at trails centres to what some ‘instructor’ is telling a group, or read some web pages or watch online videos and half of it seems to be over analyzing everything and someone is making a helluva lotta money out of this and it ain’t me. 😉

    Weight distribution is obviously a big part of handling a trail but once you realise a few things by actually riding regular and learning the hard way on occasion, it all becomes second nature, yet people pay loadsa money to have someone tell them they need to look right over yonder with bent knees and all sorts lol whilst weaving in and out a few cones. 😀

    I’ve seen it all, instructors mocking the idea that certain tyres might make any difference regardless of conditions/terrain, telling you you need a skills course instead, got the cones out ready for me have ya?
    🙄
    I’ve seen instructors mocking the idea of single speed which shows they don’t fully understand as much as they think they do.
    Going back to Mr Jedi, I even remember 1 instructor stating that when you go over jumps you needs to have heels down, Jedi then corrected this person saying the opposite was true, out of the two I would trust Jedi I think, but basing that one the fact he definitely walks the walks when it comes to throwing bikes into the air, but it just goes to show doesn’t it?

    Show what I hear you cry? That there’s a fair few ‘chancers’ out there cashing in on this boom in MTB activity.

    Skills this, skills that, it’s all you ever hear, cynical? Yes very thankyou.

    Discuss. 😉

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    So how good are you if you don’t need training?

    Won any races? got any vids for us to critique?

    Oh – and SPDs make a huge difference to anyone

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Is it bellend night already?

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    buzz-lightyear
    Free Member

    “yet people pay loadsa money to have someone tell them they need to look right over yonder with bent knees and all sorts lol whilst weaving in and out a few cones”

    £70 to forest freeride isn’t loads of money for a day’s coaching IMO – you can spend that on tyres. The mind game matters as much as the physical game. I do know that by the end of the day I rode obstacles I could not at the start. So obviously, it did make some difference.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    skills coaching what a waste of

    hang on worth every penny 🙂

    jedi
    Full Member

    i have never had mtb coaching. lifes about choices 🙂

    Ambrose
    Full Member

    Please don’t feed the trolls.

    RealMan
    Free Member

    Elitist and snobby ‘look down on everyone else’ type attitudes, waste of time if you ain’t winning races and more importantly, PRIZE MONEY. FACT

    So if you win prize money and races you can look down on everyone else?

    I’ll keep that in mind 😀

    popstar
    Free Member

    SPD = FTW. But I preffer to ride with flaties.

    It’s very hard to learn skills on e-net forums. You have to be seen by person who can teach.

    MTB Coaches can throw at you all certificates they have, but piece of paper doesn’t always proves if that person can actually listen/identify/teach etc. I haven’t seen a single pompeous MTB Coach J.Clarkson style* however, but there may be some as OP reffers to.

    Doh.

    soobalias
    Free Member

    i like spds
    saved me reading the rest of the OP too – double bonus.

    *adds Mental Mickey to stw kill file*

    PimpmasterJazz
    Free Member

    Spd pedals, waste of time if you ain’t winning races, more fool you for listening to advertising speil. FACT

    …doesn’t suffer fools…

    So why exactly would you go with Jedi?

    😉

    joolsburger
    Free Member

    Worst – troll – ever.

    soobalias
    Free Member

    scruff
    Free Member

    Mental Mickey – can you please post more often with your thoughts, I’m liking the cut of your jib.

    RayMazey
    Free Member

    As Jedi says, its all about choices.

    However. I have been providing mountain bike training since 2002 and I could easily count on one hand the number of people who have gained very little from it, and probably none who did not gain anything.

    I guess its the same as skiing / snowboarding etc, you dont need lessons, but many choose to get them. I know I do.

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    i think what you are saying is that some instructors aren’t up to the job.

    yes that’s true – i know for a fact – i won’t say why because i don’t want to discredit anyones business.

    on the other hand i’ve had tuition with jedi and the man really knows his stuff.

    Euro
    Free Member

    Some folk prefer to be shown how to do something, others like to work it out for themselves.

    If you go down the ‘show me how’ route and end up with a duff instructor then hard cheese. Serve you right for being too lazy to work it out for yourself. 😆

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    I doubt you need coaching to ride round fields well but beyond that I guess you either acquire/imrove skills through pactice (hopefully with some observation of others) or maybe quicker from having coaching.

    You don’t have to though (FACT)

    plumber
    Free Member

    I’ve done 3 courses now – 1 and 3rd were really worth it

    Second one not so much but the riding was really worth the cost of admission

    MentalMickey
    Free Member

    jedi – Member
    i have never had mtb coaching. lifes about choices

    Bingo, there you have it right there from the horses mouth.

    The guy who posted that quite obviously has a lot of skill regards riding bikes off road, but never had any coaching.
    As for those stating I’m the ‘worst troll ever’, you ever considered you might be the most clueless buffoon ever?

    There’s no trolling here, I think it’s a positive thing to talk about these aspects, ascertain whether something really is worthwhile or not, perhaps those labelling me a troll can’t see the wood for trees? 😉 Myths are there to be debunked.

    Let’s go back to Spd’s for a minute, upstroke this, extra % pedalling efficiency that, I’ve seen some good arguments on both sides actually regarding this, one thread in particular on bike radar proved the arguments both for and against were inconclusive, nobody could bring the thread to a proper conclusion.

    However, I do accept that people that actually race prefer to feel connected to their bike and it’s quite possible there is some truth regards ‘extra power’, I’ve tried both systems but don’t notice much improvement in speed throughout (as in overall) a trail. I do think think there’s a lot of people that simply waste their own time using a system like this believing it’s going to make them a faster rider, these people are the types that turn up at trail centres for a pootle, I’m only a new rider but have noticed it;s only the very fit looking types, lycra weight weenies or people that look they have been riding for years that actually ever overtake me.

    That is where I’m coming from here, Tandem Jeremy is asking if I’m a good rider and to evidence this, I don’t need to, competition IS NOT what I am about, capiche?
    For me this is something that is helping me to get fit whilst being very enjoyable, I love countryside and that feeling of being able ride something technical you might have struggled with is a good feeling too.
    I see others that buy into this idea of Spd’s yet I’m the one overtaking them? Why is that then, they look easily as fit as me, younger in many cases, even chuckled recently that I was overtaking several rider on my SS while ill at the same time, the looks I get at times while cruising on by with my flats is priceless.

    My message today would be ‘stop being snobbish about pedalling systems’, more often than not, there seems to be this sneering attitude that people using flats are not worthy. Have a word with yourselves.

    I’ve read self-contradictory posts on occasion from one or two people that run these courses, this is why I’m a little sceptical that there may be a little hype around all this, you could attend a course run by me if I was an experienced rider of many years, I’m quietly confident I could tell you everything you want to hear in a subtle manner, leaving you with a feeling that you have greatly benefited from the day and improved your skills without any significant proof that this has actually occurred, all I’ve done it told you your ar*e is over the back end a bit too much and you ain’t looking far enough ahead on the trail.
    I’ve simplified that above but you get the picture.

    The best riders seem to be those who are what are often regarded as ‘old skool’, you know, 90’s riders that learned their craft on rigid bikes with what may be regarded as primitive gear by todays standards.

    Did these people book skills courses? I bet they didn’t.
    Did they read extensive features in mags about how to ride an off camber section with a little root half way? I doubt that too.
    Did they watch videos online or something similar, again, probably not.

    I’m betting they simply got out and rode, without over analysing or complicating anything, learnt ‘on the job’ and taught themselves no doubt.
    Now here’s the crux of this thread, plenty of riders like myself DO NOT EVER take part in races, perhaps some of you find that fun but I don’t see the point unless there’s prizes/prize money on offer, this for me seems to be the only possible reason for people to..
    1) Train hard in the right way to obtain optimum fitness levels possible.
    2) Subscribe to ‘superior’ pedalling efficiency systems and other stuff like worrying about weight of components etc..
    3) Have skills training for XC, perhaps from former race winners where possible in order to gain the right winning mentality as well as skills that ‘might’ give you the edge.

    I’m not one to tell people how to spend their money but for those who don’t ever race to win, are they not wasting their own time with any of the above? All that for a weekend pootle that from the evidence of what I’ve seen, doesn’t seem to have a legion of ‘highly trained weekend warriors’ passing me by, leaving me feeling I need to book one soon and get those Spd’s back on quick sharpish.

    Is this not a fair point of view I’m giving here or will people here be resorting to ‘troll’ cat calls one again?

    I think I do have something of a point, I keep seeing so many people banging on and on about the need for skills courses yet lets face facts, you only take a significant step up in ‘techy factor; when you actually go from riding trails that are pretty much all ‘rollable’ (refer back to my standing/jockey comments earlier) to stuff that requires serious attention to skills involving substantial air time and/or dangerously high northshore like Jedi rides, this is the time I would consider a course, not for competition but purely because its necessary as to not seriously injure myself, something which is far less likely while rolling a root.

    If I’m missing the point, please point out what that is.

    oldgit
    Free Member

    The moment you discover that much of anything technical can be tackled by simply treating the bike like a horse being ridden by a jockey, it all clicks into place.

    I’ve never ridden a horse, which explains a lot. Thank you.

    scruff
    Free Member

    I’ve ridden a horse, it had no similarities whatsover to a bike except you could fall off it.

    Rorschach
    Free Member

    Proof that care in the community DOES NOT WORK (its in your name!)
    Fair point made tho……when my bike breaks,I shoot it in the head with a bolt gun…..It’s more humane.
    Us trolls have do some self awareness and a sense of irony btw 😉

    Dougal
    Free Member

    OP – What point are you trying to make, it’s hard to tell.

    popstar
    Free Member

    Mental Mickey you sound a bit confused. It is a very bad idea to start your ride with worries of SPD vs Flats, 29 vs 26 etc.

    When you start your ride, all you really have to care about is pleasure of riding your bike. Speed against others, the look of your forks etc should not enter your mindset.

    Only then you will achieve Zen and thats if you understand your riding.

    As you mentioned, some peeps never ever booked skills course. Some did. Some peeps rode bikes for years in order to understand and simplify matters about riding bikes, and all those ravings about skills course don’t come out from empty places too.

    Jedi is very good at explaining and teaching/preaching old style religion so that enabled me personally to realise the future of my riding and learn it in very short time. It did cost money, but the truth may prove to be expensive.

    You don’t have to be world champion to guarantee that you can teach, in fact from few videos on e-net those very reputable riders when giving clues how to ride better -talk some BS big time, but even then they do give those tips to -advanced rider in the know- which sunday warrior wouldn’t even understand half of that.

    After all, it’s just all about riding bikes.

    oldgit
    Free Member

    OP – What point are you trying to make, it’s hard to tell

    That you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink? Perhaps?? ????

    RayMazey
    Free Member

    Mental Mickey – As you say you could teach people yourself. I dont doubt that you can. However, from around 20 years of coaching both in industry and education(10 years of that in mountain biking)and 8 years coaching people to become instructors / coaches, I know that it is not as simple as you are making it sound. Also (with respect) I doubt you have encountered the vast differences in peoples ability and mental attitudes. A good coach can make a huge positive difference to both of these issues. Have you never had a good teacher at school or college who have helped you ? Had they not spent years gaining experience and qualifications to make them the teachers that they were.

    joolsburger
    Free Member

    Ok then.
    The true mark of the ignorant is a refusal to accept that there is anything else to learn. I have not been on a skills course but I probably will this year and am likely to find that all those skills I developed without training in the 90’s are actually holding me back. For some people learning new stuff is fun and being better than you are is always something worth aspiring to.

    I expect that there are good and less good coaches but sometimes just having someone spend the time to watch and point out obvious issues is all you need and I expect almost all qualified coaches can do that.

    .

    stills8tannorm
    Free Member

    Sorry to correct you Buzz but you’ll find it was £75 not £70. Afterall the new west wing needs paying for and the Aston needed a service 😉

    I’m feeling all confused now too. I’m a coach, I ride flats, sometimes I ride a singlespeed other times I don’t. Amongst my collection of bikes there are 26″ wheels, 29″ wheels and a bike with one of each. Am I a bad person or not? The OP has made me feel like a contradiction 😉

    popstar
    Free Member

    Actually in my own experience I didn’t learn that much as of -new skills- criteria. I never struggled with techy riding at all nor was I shy of jumps drops etc too.

    But, I was made to be aware of all those basic core skills and how to put and apply them alltogether in order to achieve the real flow. To be consistent and understand your riding is worth more than mere few hundred sheets.

    Before you barge me with -rich ponce stick, you could easily loose more money than that by having a crash or injure yourself badly which I hope will never happen.

    As for learning matters, you learn something new everyday when you ride. If you don’t, you really have to look at yourself to blame.

    Lastly, those peeps who may not benefit from skills courses as such may book them, turn up and don’t learn anything at all. But then as Old git quoted

    That you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink?

    soobalias
    Free Member

    …there are 26″ wheels, 29″ wheels and a bike with one of each. Am I a bad person….

    thats a big 10-4 good buddy.

    glenp
    Free Member

    Blimey. Extensive ranting.

    I use SPDs because I like them, and if anyone asks for advice in that matter I tell it just like that. Takes a few rides to get used to of course. Or you might prefer flats. Whatever.

    As for skills courses – OP might not realise that a hell of a lot of them are at the “fundamentals” level – lots of people like to get into mountain biking without making too many painful mistakes.

    Oh – and as for XC: if it’s xc racing then a few pointers can be extremely useful. We’ve had loads of riders who race and have benefitted from finding out how to flow smoothly on the downhills and get a rest at the same time – keep your time on the downs, and make extra time on the ups.

    jedi
    Full Member

    i do however get bmx coaching from mark atkins in return for me coaching at mtb 🙂

    winner!

    IainGillam
    Free Member

    So in your opinion can one only use SPD’s after winning a race on flats, or is SPD use justified if you have won a race in them? Does the prize money have to be more than the shoes cost? After all it would be a little pointless buying them if you aren’t going to win their cost back in prize money!! Is coaching only applicable to people who have won races? Shutting the gate after the horse had bolted and all that… Anyway nice rant!

    Iain

    buzz-lightyear
    Free Member

    “£75”

    Sorry about that Stu. I hope you aren’t too embarrassed by me singing your praises 🙂

    “The true mark of the ignorant is a refusal to accept that there is anything else to learn”

    Did you make that up jools? You are a genius, that is a great quote.

    “If I’m missing the point, please point out what that is.”

    OK MentalMonkey, here it is: Not everyone is like you.

    IanMunro
    Free Member

    My message today would be ‘stop being snobbish about pedalling systems’, more often than not, there seems to be this sneering attitude that people using flats are not worthy. Have a word with yourselves.

    Bless.
    You do seem quite anxious about what pedal choices other people have made, and what they may or may not think of your pedal choices.
    I think if you gained more confidence in the decisions you make in life, then you would be far less worried about what other people think, or what you imagine they think about your decisions.

    timpol
    Free Member

    Had a couple of coaching experiences gained nothing of the first, second with Tony (Jedi) and he completely changed my riding ability. His ability as a rider/coach is of the highest standard and his ability to play with your mental skills is a gift.

    Marmoset
    Free Member

    The man’s right – I loved fumbling around for my strap button whilst riding in the shoes with grooved cleats on the caged pedals era.

    I think the OP has quite an aversion to a pedal system that quite anumber of people like to use, be they racers or not….

    Anyway, nice trolling 😀 It can’t be anything other than that as it’s an attack on peoples personal choices….

    Wookster
    Full Member

    Ah s#%te I got Spds been on skills courses and get passed by riders on flats……..I ve also started to train so I can complete and enjoy Transwales…………here was I enjoying a hobby, being out side, getting fitter and making choices based on my riding choice sometimes even flats……. Sorry mickey your a legend I’ll quit now and head off the the golf shop are lessons ok for that?

    Seems your new but have really gone for the niche SS flats and the mega attitude and I am ashamed to say I’ve clip (get it) cloped across your bridge…………………

    bikerbruce
    Free Member

    spds revolutionised cycling and make a difference to anyone,however shurter would still be better than anyone on flats,spds are just in a different league to flats,if you can’t get used to them fair enought
    but they do make a difference if you can.
    Bruce

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