I’m after a bit of advice on bike handling / setup / both.

First off some basics. 2012 Giant Trance X2 in large, I’m 6′-ish, reasonably standard proportions but light build (11 stone).

I’m still very much on the learning curve in the technique department, and confidence is probably my weakest suit. This isn’t helped by the feeling I’m getting from the front end of the bike. I find it quite skittish, like it’s going to fold without warning in corners. I have ended up on the floor a couple of times without knowing what happened (low-sides), and I’m sure there is a psychological element, but I’m also wondering whether there is something in the bike’s handling that might be contributing. I had a try of a friend’s Pitch at the weekend (very different geometry I know) and it felt so much more forgiving. He’s fitted a stubby stem and wide bars – I don’t know how much that might contribute to the very stable feeling. By comparison he thought the Trance felt ‘quick’… Not sure what to make of that.

I don’t know whether the Trance is a bit twitchy at the front by nature and it’s a personal thing that I’m not keen on it, and therefore what I could do about it (new bike not an option!) or whether this is actually all in my head, or maybe it’s technique and I need to work on making my cornering smoother to avoid adjusting while the bike’s lent over.

Any thoughts appreciated, and if there are details I’ve missed out let me know.

Go easy though, I’m feeling delicate 😉

The stock stems fitted on Giants tend to be on the long side so a shorter on would make for more direct steering. Lowering your existing stem would put more weight on the front tyre, increasing grip. Reducing tyre pressure would achieve the same.

What tyres are on it?

[caveat] I’m a bit crap [/caveat]

I find my cornering improved by weighting the front, but you need to try and do this without having your weight past the front end (ie a long stem) otherwise it encourages over the bar moments.

So I find short stems and wide-ish bars do the job, but I also make a point of pushing through the front, kind of holding down, this gives a very planted feeling and it corners awesomely..

Foot work is also important, keep your outside foot down (and inside hand down).

Another plus with a short cockpit is that small weight movements have big effects, so its easy to adjust the weight bias quickly.

tbh it’s mainly about technique – a good rider will probably corner great on your trance – but wide bar/stem, big front tyre etc, can help you feel confident and that can help you weight the front properly etc.

watch this and go see Jedi:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF5K9V2w6W8&list=FLDvuJ8FNiH2DwBxExVatdWA&index=4&feature=plpp_video[/video]

nothing wrong with Trance X2.

I found putting a 40mm stem on mine made a huge difference to this, coming down from a 70mm – big jump but I feel much more confident with this set up…

It might not be this, but, a lot of people obsess about getting their weight back- partly because of magazine features that used to bang on about it, partly because they’re afraid of going over the bars. But moving your weight back obviously also unweights the front. So it could be that.

Along with spending a lot of time on my bike over the last two years, having decided that riding should be something I do regularly, as opposed to a dozen times a year, I have made some quite small changes to my 2008 Trance which have made a very big difference for me.
I’m 5’10 and about 74 kgs and ride a medium.
As said earlier Trance ( be it a Trance or an X ), as sold have a long stem with a load of spacers at the headset.
gone for a 70mm stem, with no spacers. Changed the bar for a 750mm one with slight rise and small back sweep. I now put more weight through the bar when seated. Supplied Kenda Nevegal, never felt right to me, neither did the Panaracer xc I replaced it with. Both let go on occasion, when I thought they’d hang in there. Have now gone for the good old 2.35 High Roller, run tubeless at about 32psi.
The whole set up , to me now feels a whole lot more balanced and predictable. I have also gone for a dropper seat post which works for me too, in as much as I can attack down hill trails more confidently and am much more aware of how shifting weight back and forth helps with control.
I expect some may will have other ideas.

Thanks.

@woody, I’ve still got the stock Nobby Nics on there.

@TurnerGuy, I’ve already been Jedi’d. No problem with executing outside foot/inside hand, though admittedly looking out of the corner could be improved. Mostly because I’m worried the front is about to fold…

I think it’s a given that the Trance is a better bike than I am a rider. I’m looking for the key which will let me break the vicious circle so I can improve.

oh right, if you’ve been to jedi already, def. change your bar and stem ’till it feels right!
don’t buy expensive ones they’ll just encourage you not to change again.

OK, sounds like a cheapo shorter stem might be worth trying at least.

Am I right in thinking that the OverDrive 2 tapered steerer means I have to be careful what I go for? (1 1/4″ vs 1 1/2″?)

id only go as short as 70mm and wide bars personally (its still an xc bike after all)

if that doesnt cut it then maybe look at head angle
have you got enough air in your forks?/ too much in the back
can you increase compression damping/ reduce dive?
can you speed up rebound?
can you look at anglesets/ offset shock bushings?

oh and usual front end setup tips of having your brake levers closer to level then you expect and having them 1-2 inches inboard of the grips so you have one finger braking

tapered steerers take ordinary stems. CRC is usually good place for cheap ones..

We’ve already got footwork, leaning the bike, and I dare say “look where you’re going” covered.

I’d just add: *don’t* look where you’re going, look where you *want* to be going. And don’t just look, point your chin, that way you really pick your head up.

if that doesnt cut it then maybe look at head angle
have you got enough air in your forks?/ too much in the back
can you increase compression damping/ reduce dive?
can you speed up rebound?
can you look at anglesets/ offset shock bushings?

Think it’s more likely to be me, and I really wouldn’t know where to start with most of this so best left alone.

point your chin

That rings true and sounds like it might turn out to be a very useful tip. Thanks klumpy.

tapered steerers take ordinary stems.

Except Overdrive 2, which is bigger at the top than “standard” tapers. Think you’re probably stuck with Giant’s own stems.

To the OP: It’s a bit of a vicious cycle — you’ve been off a couple of times, you’re not confident and chances are you’re now pushing your weight back in corners because you’re worried about going over the front (you can be doing this without knowing it), which is making it worse. I’d work on consciously pulling yourself over the front more.

As well as buying shiny new stuff check the basics- make sure your headset and wheel bearings are in good order. Any slop in your headset will cause the most horrible vague feeling in corners.

As well as buying shiny new stuff check the basics- make sure your headset and wheel bearings are in good order. Any slop in your headset will cause the most horrible vague feeling in corners.

Interesting. I have noticed that rocking back and forth with front brake applied there’s a slight knocking. Any clues where I should start looking?

## NB, not trying to blame the kit here at all, but since the topic was raised…

I have the large trance X4 2011- same geometry as yours and I am running stock stem and bars. I very rarely loose the front.

Putting a shorter stem will shift your weight further back and IMO wont help, it may feel more direct but wont solve the front end tuck.

Flip the stem as it puts more over the front end, ie look at the XCO whippets with super long stems … they always look like there going out the front door, also set of Maxxis Minion DHF tyres are very good tyres find they are very stable but still light enough for XC trails.

sorry didn’t know there was another taper standard 🙁

good ideas from aluhrs also. Minion is a very confidence-giving tyre, i use one most of the time 🙂

Interesting. I have noticed that rocking back and forth with front brake applied there’s a slight knocking. Any clues where I should start looking?

Grab a single fistful of bike such that you’re holding the frame and the stem, rock the bike on the brake. You should feel if the knock is in the headset – and that can be adjusted.

I was having issues with front end skittishness (on a HT) a few months ago. I watched the Fabian video above and practised the cornering techniques. Discovered that I was shifting my weight too far back and leaving it there too long. All down to misreading technique articles. Having weight more balanced and more dynamic seems to have improved things.

I sat on a Trance at Swinley last week and it was far more relaxed set up than my HT (at least to me), so guess that technique could be more important than the bike.

I hope you sort it out, as a couple of front wheel wipe outs hurt me and my confidence for a while.

you’ve been off a couple of times, you’re not confident and chances are you’re now pushing your weight back in corners because you’re worried about going over the front (you can be doing this without knowing it), which is making it worse. I’d work on consciously pulling yourself over the front more.

This. It’s possible to get over the front, and have your outside foot down, without having enough weight over the outside of the bike. Try dropping your outside heel.

rocking back and forth with front brake applied there’s a slight knocking

Fork – movement in fork bushings. Might be normal.
Brakes – are the pads moving in the calipers
Brake disc – are the bolts tight (disc could be moving)
Headset (put your fingers around it and see if you can feel movement/turn the front wheel to the side so you eliminate fork/brake movement)

Are you getting anywhere near full travel on a ride? There’s a lot of factors here but if your o-ring is no way near the end of the stroke and you’ve definitely had some pretty solid hits/landings, might be worth looking into.

@GaryLake, yes, near-full travel without bottoming out, so pretty sure my suspension set-up is fine thanks.

@Simons, thanks for the pointers – my guess would be normal fork bushings now you mention the possibilities.

@teamhurtmore

I hope you sort it out, as a couple of front wheel wipe outs hurt me and my confidence for a while.

Exactly! I really feel I need to grasp the nettle and try and get to the bottom of this before it gets to be an even bigger problem.

This is helpful. We’re going through the possibilities and pretty much systematically knocking them down one by one, which is helping to clear doubts in my mind if nothing else, so thanks to all.

The fewer doubts the more I can just concentrate on the technique.

I have a Trance X3 2011. The overdrive 2 is wider at the bottom of the tapered steerer not the top. The fork steerer will take a standard stem. I upgraded to a Raceface Atlas stem at 70mm and Atlas AM bars at 725mm. The bike feels great and handles superbly. The stock stem is far too long and the bars just a little narrow. However front wheel washouts are probably more down to technique as said. Build it up slowly adding speed as you session a corner, experimenting with putting more weight forward. Trust yourself and your bike and you’ll get there.

The overdrive 2 is wider at the bottom of the tapered steerer not the top.

Thanks andy. I think I saw MBR just upgraded their long-termer X4 with a Spank Oozy which I’m guessing is a standard steerer size, so that fits.

Someone on here was talking about practicing cornering on a slightly sloping grassy field and riding figure of 8’s working out how far you could lean the bike, sharply you could turn, etc with minimal risk of hurting yourself.

Sounded like a great idea. Must try it some time – cornering is the first thing I lose the ability to do when I’ve not been off road in a while.

That’s exactly what I have been doing simons, and really focusing on body position both forward and back and on outside pedal and leaning the bike rather than me. It seems to be working (touch wood)!

Someone on here was talking about practicing cornering on a slightly sloping grassy field and riding figure of 8’s working out how far you could lean the bike, sharply you could turn, etc with minimal risk of hurting yourself.

I had Clive Forth doing this but setting up a cone slalom course. We spent about an hour just increasing the speed and sharpness and working on technique. Very helpful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF5K9V2w6W8

thats a really helpful link, thanks TurnerGuy

I have a Trance X3 2011. The overdrive 2 is wider at the bottom of the tapered steerer not the top.

The 2011 was OverDrive, which is 1.5in bottom and 1.125in top so takes normal stems. OverDrive 2 is 1.5in bottom and 1.25in top. However, not all 2012 Anthem Xs have OD2 — according to the Giant website the OP’s X2 is OD not OD2 as he thought. So in fact yes, any normal stem will fit 🙂

Thanks Mike D, but according to the Giant website all 2012 Trance models use the same frame with OD2. A stem with 1.25″ (31.8mm) at the steerer end is therefore required. Not many around, and even fewer cheap ones, but I’m going to research the Spank Oozy per the MBR long-term test X4. It doesn’t state 1.25″ on the Spank site, but sounds like they made it fit…

I am confused, never heard of 1.25 stem, you sure this is not referring to the bar size?

Can’t say I blame you!

Description here

Partly the Giant will be fairly twitchy in corners because of the geometry – it’s a reasonably steep head angle compared to the Pitch you’ve ridden, but also a lot of other bikes in the same class. Plus long stem / shortish top tube exacerbates this. Giant have a bit of a reputation for ‘under-forking’ their bikes – have a look at the Trance X0 and you’ll see that it has a 140mm fork (compared to your 125mm) which helps bring the front end up a bit. I know some Trance owners ‘upgrade’ to a longer fork at some point.

However, one simple thing you can do is to make sure the fork isn’t diving too much under braking / cornering. You say that you’ve been able to almost bottom out your forks. IME with basic Fox forks, this probably means you’re running too little pressure / too much sag. Put a bit more air in the forks (or wind on some compression damping, if your forks have it) and the front end will stay higher and less likely to ‘tuck under’ in the corners.

@Superficial, thanks for that advice. Yes, as well as the fear of washing out I have to catch it from folding or tucking under fairly frequently, which means cornering confidence is low anyway. I’d assumed that as I’m pretty light for the size of bike it was unlikely that it would be underpressured, but I’ll take a proper look.