So, I moved to Bromley last month as I simply can’t afford London anymore. Still renting but planning on buying later in the year…

Last October, 2 bed terraced houses in Bromley were c. £320k asking price for something nice, Land Registry suggesting they were going for £285k.

Now, 2 bed terraces are on the market at £350. Same road, same size house etc. Clearly lots of people like me moving out of London.

However, December Land Registry says £285k is still about right for selling prices.

So how is an Estate Agent likely to react if, when you make an offer, you just print out Land Registry data and put it in front of them.

Yes, they can bluster and try and suggest you’re insane but Land Registry is hard data, not a ‘taking the mickey’ low offer.

Essentially what I’m asking is how do you stop the estate agent ripping you off with asking prices way out of line with real selling prices…?

doesn’t really matter what the estate agent says.

arent they legally obliged to pass on details of any offer to the seller?

percieved book value is one thing , but if houses are selling at 350 there is absolutely nothing that You or anyone else can do.

Do you not understand how sales works?

You put some thing up for sale at a price you think its worth, then its up to people to decide whether they want to pay that price. Simple isn’t it?

Obviously you don’t think the house/houses are worth that, others may think they are.

Edit: Put in an formal offer you think is reasonable, and be prepared to be rejected.

but as he says above they’re not selling at 350 they actually selling at about 285

edit missed – october.

how ever do be aware its a rising market thats extremely demanding just now due to the availibility of easy credit and help to buy.

I would not be tempted to stretch to buy at the moment …. there will be a bust/plateau again shortly – this is un sustainable.

does anyone else have dejavu ?

but as he says above they’re not selling at 350 they actually selling at about 285

No thats the price a house was sold for last. Markets change. If I was selling my house I would put it slightly high, incase some one comes along and really likes it and is prepared to pay. If over time no one did, then I would reduce my price/accept lower offer.

Which ares of Bromley are you looking at? I lived there for 5 years, until moving to Sussex 4 years ago, and my wife grew up there – might be able to give some pointers.

No thats the price a house was sold for last. Markets change. If I was selling my house I would put it slightly high, incase some one comes along and really likes it and is prepared to pay. If over time no one did, then I would reduce my price/accept lower offer.[b]wait a few months untill the market caught up with expectations.[/b]

Bear in mind London’s experiencing silly growth in the housing market a 20% increace in 4 to 6 months isn’t unexpected (especialy as 10% would potentialy just be the agent starting high and expecting a low offer). And by the time it’s in completed and in the land registry it’d be a year between it being £285k and whatever they do end up selling for.

The market in some areas has gone nuts. I have 2 mates looking, both are really frustrated with the agent ringing them in the morning to say a new property has come on the books, they make an appointment for that evening, then get a call later to say its under offer.

Apparently people are placing offers sight unseen as there’s just not enough to satisfy demand.

This will obviously inflate prices very quickly.

Edit – this is Southampton too, not London

Which ares of Bromley are you looking at? I lived there for 5 years, until moving to Sussex 4 years ago, and my wife grew up there – might be able to give some pointers.

I’m renting in Bickley right now – right by the old gasworks which isn’t the best part of town IMO – there seem to be much nicer streets around.

Anywhere within 15 min walk of Bromley South or North stations would be ok. Shortlands would be handy for getting back to Crystal Palace for early Sunday morning starts with my road club.

Anywhere I should specifically avoid?

Sellers market. Sellers don’t care what Land Registry has for prices 6 months ago, you sell for the most you can get at the time of sale.

Price is where buyer and seller meet. Just decide how much you are prepared to pay and make an offer.

I used to live on Cambridge Road, in Bromley North/Sundridge Park area, which was nice. The whole area in between Bromley South and Sundridge Park stations is very nice – convenient for the station, and an easy walk into Bromley town centre. If you have young kids, its also in catchment for Parish Primary school, which is very good.

I wouldn’t go any farther north towards Grove Park though. I was also never that keen on the area south of the town centre.

Personally, I’d either be looking Sundridge Park, or Shortlands.have a good look around the area – there are loads of little footpath shortcuts towards the stations making walk times quicker than you may think.

Dantsw13 – thanks. Sundridge Park strikes me as nice when I ride through it on my commute. Just need estate agents to stop being silly children so I can actually afford something!

It was 4 years ago, but the asking price set by KFH on our house was 15% higher than what we achieved (and expected to achieve).

“Just need estate agents to stop being silly children so I can actually afford something!”

Or buyers trying to make as much as possible to help them afford their next move….

4 years ago this country wAs in melt down

Something like this?

Probably more like 5 now – marketed Jan 2009, moved Apr 2009, just before the crash.

crash was 07/08 though.

I’m also in Bromley (Farnborough Village) and the above advice is pretty sound – i.e – North toward Grove park isn’t so nice…

Have a ride/drive/walk out of Bromley on the A21 towards Farnborough – some nice side streets etc..

House prices have gone mental though! Which might suit me short term as got no intention of moving, but need to remortgage in about 6 months.

Not in SE London property prices!!

The land registry prices are meaningless, a house is worth whatever someone’s prepared to pay for it and currently the market in the South East is going mental so they’re prepared to pay quite a lot.

We completed just before Christmas and it was already going a bit silly last year, had an offer accepted on a place in May (at asking price, the day it went on the market, you have to be quick round here) they couldn’t vacate in time for our buyer so we walked away in early November, they put it back on the market and were under offer again within 24 hours at 35K more than we offered, an 8% rise in 5 months.

What started in London always ripples out as people looking to upsize move outwards with London money to spend, ironically spreading the problem they’re trying to get away from. Prime commuter belt like St Albans and Bromley will always feel it first.

So glad to be out of the game for the foreseeable and even more glad that we got out before it really kicked off, feel genuinely bad for anyone on a normal wage trying to buy a family home in the South East right now.

does anyone else have dejavu ?

haven’t you asked that question before ?

The land registry prices are meaningless, a house is worth whatever someone’s prepared to pay for it

That’s my point – Land Registry IS what someone paid for it… it’s not an indicative price, it’s hard data. If all houses of the type you’re after in a given area were sold within a certain range then that’s a pretty good indicator or what people have paid, no?

Looking at RightMove and comparing Land Registry suggests asking prices are currently well out of line with what people are paying, surely?

tbh the best hope right now seems to be enough people saying we’re in a bubble and heading for a crash (which all serious commentators are).

Expectations of lower prices in the future tends to put a halt on purchases…

Land Registry IS what someone paid for it.

Not necessarily any guide on what they will pay in the future.

Land Registry IS what someone paid for it… it’s not an indicative price, it’s hard data.

It’s hard data from 1 or 2 years ago, with houses in some parts the SE going up 10% in 6 months that makes it pretty meaningless.

If you’re flexible and not in a hurry to move you can try and play the game by putting in low ball offers but even if you do get one accepted you’ll be very lucky to make it to completion without the seller asking you to up it or just getting gazumped and put back to square one.

I’m not trying to get at you, but I’ve been there recently and I’m just saying what I’ve seen. Buying a house anywhere near London is a horrible, stressful and hideously expensive process where, no matter how careful you are, you are almost guaranteed to get shafted at some point, you have my genuine sympathy and best wishes, I hope it goes as smoothly as possible for you.

If you came to me and said Land registry says houses in this road have recently sold for £X, therefor yours is only worth £x, I’d quite simply say, button moon was a cracking kids programme. Both quotes have F’all relevance to the value of a property.

The house immediately opposite me, is worth over £1m, however mine is around the £500K mark, the reason why is that it’s completely bloody different for a stat. Also how does “land registry” know what a person has done inside their house to increase it’s value, what about extensions etc etc…

Something is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it.. in this market people will pay stupid above what they did a few months ago.

It sounds like you’ve got time to get to know your local market.

Land registry figures are obviously going to lag and will only indicate what was sold, not everything that was marketed and by what margin.

The first thing I’d do is work out which agents are most active and in which sub areas. Most agents won’t be doing equal business in all the areas they claim to cover, and they’ll be reasons for that. Consider the difference between properties marketed sole agency and multi agency, how motivated the vendors, agents, and buyers might be, how long different properties remain on the market, which properties have come back onto the market after being under offer, which properties have switched agents or reduced their asking price, which properties really are uniquely worth more, etc.

Inflating the asking price doesn’t really benefit a decent agent doing good business. It makes naff all difference to the commission, so the agent is really balancing securing an instruction against the ease and likelihood of them making the sale. It’s usually the vendors who are unrealistic/aren’t in a hurry/chancing a high offer. Inflated asking on multi agency probably isn’t going to get much effort from any agent unless they’ve got applicants ready and waiting and/or the market is hot – in which the asking isn’t inflated, it’s where the market is at. Be cautious of bigger or dominant agents, they may be drawing in buyers from further afield with bigger budgets who consider an inflated asking a bargain compared to the other areas they’re looking in.

I have a house in the London Borough of Bromley and prices have gone rapidly upwards in the last 12 months. A relative sold a property in a similar area recently. It was marketed at 25% over the previous ceiling price for the road. 10 viewings on the first Saturday it was on the market and 2 offers within 5% of the asking price. All done and dusted in 3 months from marketing to completion.
Yes property prices have gone nuts again.

Yes property prices have gone nuts again.

tbh I’m quite glad I’m renting for now… I can’t see where the money’s going to come from for prices higher than they are now and all the serious commentators are calling a bubble so at the very least things will calm down over the next 6 months and stop rising, even if they don’t drop.

Right now I’m on the cusp of not being able to afford in Bromley either…

Oh yeah, don’t rely on the photos on websites too much, they can hide a multitude of sins. Quite apart from the omissions and usually overly spacious perspective given by wider lenses, you can’t generally see the flaws in a finish. Therefore you need to go and view properties to understand the quality available.

http://www.nethouseprices.co.uk check what actual houses have sold for previously.

also zoopla, rightmove have the similar info

Sites such as Zoopla and Mouseprice have estimated current values so OP might find those useful though only for guidance as they’re a bit hit’n’miss. Partly I suspect as some houses get completely redone and so resell with big rises – e.g this near me used to be a very modest little place and is on for about 50% more than the Zoopla estimate so when it sells I guess surrounding properties will deemed to have increased relatively:

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/32007028?search_identifier=cb221c6d24cc0a9011e966bcb75c920f

A couple of other observations from buying in Bromley previously:

– In this area people want big gardens. If you can settle for a smaller one, you are more likely to get a good price.
– Loft conversions dont realise their full value round there.
– Bromley buyers aren’t as willing to look through crap decor as other areas. We got a large family house – structurally sound but not touched for 25 years – for a VERY good price (spent 50k, made 200k in a flat market).

The Land Registry figures have a place but you need to bear in mind that the sale data could be 6-9 months old. For example the data from January could be for a house that was marketed and had a offer accepted in June of last year.

Many agents in many areas pray on the vendor greed to win the instruction and inflate the marketing price accordingly. After all we would all say yes to another £5000, £10000 or £25000! If the property doesn’t generate any interest or sell the agent will then advise the vendor to reduce.

In November 2012, I went to look at a 4 bedroom house that was overvalued by around £50,000. It had last sold 16 months earlier for £290,000 but the vendor wanted £375,000. Looking at other properties in the area I believed it to be worth no more than £325,000. The marketing price would have been right for a large 4 bed but this was a small 4 bed. It was the same agent that sold it 16 months earlier and after my viewing, I told him the property was over valued. His response was that the vendor was chancing it. The price was never reduced and in June or July last year the vendor took it off the market.

Greedy vendors and sly agents who over value push up prices.

Remember a property is only worth what people are prepared to pay.

If you need to get into London move out along HS1. Better riding, cleaner air and the cash saved could offset the commute cost.

Land registry prices are also the price that was agreed approx 3 mths before the sale is completed. Not what the house was worth exactly on that date.

If prices are rising rapidly you might see land registry completed sale prices for last month well below what are being asked right now.

People are taking the piss at the moment as well.

In the roads surrounding us there are 3 near identical 6 bedroom newish build, nicely done out houses with crappy gardens all for sale. Range from £650k to £950k. £650 is ambitious and it has been on the market for 4 months so far when other houses get snapped up in days as its a sought after area.

No harm in a low offer backed up by reasoning. Worst that happens is you get rejected.

But it starts to sow seeds of doubt in the sellers mind. They wonder if they have been given an unrealistic expectation by an agent desperate for the listing.

If the house sells anyway quickly then you were wrong and people are paying the new higher price which will show in the land registry data 3 months after completion. If it doesn’t sell then maybe the seller will re-adjust their expectations based on receiving low offers and sell after a waiting as long as they can bear for a higher offer.

my number 1 rule when buying a house.
if you are not embarrassed by your 1st offer then its too high.