much sympathy..I get asked allot if I would ride road bikes simple answer “too many steel death traps out there” numerous times nearly been taken out on a long quite stretch of road by inconsiderate drivers simply giving no space

and riding one of these now

I live 10 miles from my door steep to Gisburn forest trails, so happily will ride out there and back……….however yesterday confirmed to me that the Van/Car drivers desperate to get to the trails have no respect idea or care for other cyclists. Mainly B roads and they are flying along with no attention or care for cyclists, they are even worse that the sunday lets go for coffee or lunch in the country drivers some of who are really patient and polite.

My experience is not

You need to ride somewhere quieter. In the Ribble Valley and Bowland Fells we are generally treated with extreme courtesy by drivers but it’s rural and very popular with cyclists.

The culture in the UK (and possibly elswhere) is to pay lip service to road rules because there not “real”, for some that even means taking pride in getting away with stuff.

It starts with speeding and ends with dead people.

however yesterday confirmed to me that the Van/Car drivers desperate to get to the trails have no respect idea or care for other cyclists

Or indeed other road users, last weekend I planned to get the train up to Horton and ride back via various bridleways. However due to maintenance work there was a replacement coach service. Going along the A65 past the Coniston Cold hotel a car with four MTBs on the roof overtook the coach on a blind bend (solid double white lines). Let’s just say the coach driver wasn’t particularly happy.

however yesterday confirmed to me that the Van/Car drivers desperate to get to the trails have no respect idea or care for other cyclists

I hear you and I LOVE driving on those roads however before I’m lumped in as a hypocrite/typical driver I’m always scanning ahead over the top of drystone walls, never going into a bend fast and wont squeeze past cyclists quickly.

The roads round there are awesome for minimal brakes, lift off and gearing down smooth driving. They just reward smooth driving sooooo much.

However- I know exactly what you mean – people coming out of (any) trail centre or rushing too- I’ve seen some really shoddy driving both as a cyclist and as a driver.

Oh I dunno. If it is the Oregon one that I’ve seen, it’d be hard to miss it, it’s **** huge!

Yep, its the Oregon one and yes it is ****ing huge. The picture quality is actually very good on it though.

Not a criticism, I can’t really see that most people are so eagle eyed that they will pick out a helmet cam.

Trust me the camera really is that damn large. Short of mounting a old VHS camcorder on my cycle helmet with gaffer tape I would really struggle to make it more obvious. Even the camera mount is massive. Plus, as I found out a while ago whilst descending Holme Moss at speed in bad weather, it really catches the wind 😀

A lot of motorists seem to realise that it is a helmet camera and give me a wide berth as a result

From my experience, most motorists don’t even see a motorbike, never mind a cyclist and even less so a small camera mounted on your helmet.

I agree that it helps prove guilt if you are knocked off but I cant see it stopping you getting knocked off in the first place.

Riding back into Lincoln last night, a fella passed me way too close, with traffic coming the other way, on a bridge.

I offered a critical, objective appraisal of his driving through the medium of sign language (admittedly, maybe not the most constructive response). 100 yards down the road, the bloke pulls in (this is in rush hour traffic by the way) and turns around and drives back up the road, purely to call me a prick. Nice one, stay classy.

People get so tetchy about their driving. Yes, I’m sure you are Colin McRae reincarnate, I’m sure you have bossed Gran Turismo without driver assist, I’m sure whatever engagement it is you’re rushing to is so important that you’re willing to risk someone’s life for the sake of a few seconds.

The government seem to be putting a lot of effort into raising awareness of motorbikes, why not bicycles to a similar extent?

I’m considering getting a motorbike, but the way I’m treated on my bike (not a commute goes by without getting cut up, pulled out on, passed too close, overtake-turn), really makes me question this. I know I’d be ok pootling about if the roads were clear, it’s just all these ignorant assholes with places to be that are really putting me off the idea.

The government seem to be putting a lot of effort into raising awareness of motorbikes, why not bicycles to a similar extent?

Now that is an excellent question. If we had a campaign like the think bike one, it would really raise the profile of cyclists and get people talking. Then I think people might start to think of us as something other than a fringe group of untermensch.

“Then I think people might start to think of us as something other than a fringe group of untermensch.”

Well put – that just about sums up how I feel on many days on my daily commute. For example the other day when some woman in a VW Anorak mounted the kerb/cycle path just in front of me and then looked at me blankly when I had the cheek to raise my hand…..

A spot of light research suggests that the cyclist mortality rate is about a 3rd of that of motorcyclists, with almost as many serious accidents.

Now, I’m highly doubting rider error makes up an equal percentage of those 2 figures, I would assume (ass – you – me, I know) that many more of the motorbike accidents are a result of the actions of the rider, rather than other motorists, just based on the increased speed alone. You have to be doing pretty well to kill yourself on a bicycle without the addition of an external influence, like another road user.

I offered a critical, objective appraisal of his driving through the medium of sign language (admittedly, maybe not the most constructive response)

I simply shake my head or do the ‘what?’ sign with an open hand/palm facing upwards’.

If they notice the ‘bird’ they’ll notice a sarcastic wave or ‘what’. So message received.

**** etc sign puts you on a level with them so you lose any high ground IMO. Plus some people really are wind up ready to explode due to their life/stress/debt and even though they never were much at fighting at school suddenly they feel like they want to fight. Like a 10yr old child high on sugar lashing out.

If they still pull over and kick off. Fine but bad driving should not go unchallenged, same with bad behaviour in a bar, street, etc. Why should sitting in a box remove you from how a person should conduct themselves?

I’ve said this myself- the day I sit behind a twitching curtain in fear to say anything- that should be the day I leave this earth (death or back on my spaceship 😉 ).

This week – solid traffic filtering down to a red light. I pulled out of my road on my bike and a 64 plate Merc raced to close the gap and sit on the car bumper infront. I shook my head and he opened his window and said ‘WHAT’?

I asked him calmly why he did that with a redlight ahead.

Talk carefully and slowly and explain and it most circumstances it can dissipate someones lashing-out stress-anger IMO.

I know giving them the finger isn’t ideal, though it seems to have become muscle memory since I started commuting. I’ve gestured “can I have a bit more space please?” before, by moving my right hand in and away from the bike, and a bloke stopped and asked “how much space do you **** need?!”

People need to chill-T-F out.

@hora

I am genuinely interested in knowing if that helped the driver understand why what he did was pointless.

I have a similar situation on the commute. Some motorists race ahead and cut you up just so they can queue less than 100m ahead.

Had some hero have a go at me for daring to be ahead of him when this happened. Gave him a look as I pulled up alongside him, but I felt it was pointless talking to him. People like that usually don’t understand reason.

Space???

Open jacket riding home from work- my zipper(?) must have clipped the edge of a cars wing mirror. He stopped at lights leaned over and asked my why I hit his car.

I had to stretch my jacket out to measure for myself- he really was **** close.

I am genuinely interested in knowing if that helped the driver understand why what he did was pointles

We’ve all had instances in our lives when we’ve done something angry/rash/stupid and been challenged and immediately afterwards thought ‘I didn’t cover myself in glory there’.

If it worked on the odd person maybe, just maybe they’d treat a cyclist abit different on their drive in.

I was turning left at lights- indicator on. I could see a cyclist steaming up the double-yellows from a distance. Watched him watched – so sounded my horn as a warning before he reached the rear of my car- he let rip GO **** YOURSELF YOU ****.

So I immediately stopped and asked him ‘why’? He deflated quite abit and then rode off.

I’m considering getting a motorbike, but the way I’m treated on my bike (not a commute goes by without getting cut up, pulled out on, passed too close, overtake-turn), really makes me question this. I know I’d be ok pootling about if the roads were clear, it’s just all these ignorant assholes with places to be that are really putting me off the idea.

One advantage of a m/c over a cycle is that normally we can’t get hassled into a corner due to our turn of speed, and if in heavy traffic anyone tries it on you’re also dressed head-to-foot in protective gear, so less likely to get face-to-face argy-bargy.

ow that is an excellent question. If we had a campaign like the think bike one, it would really raise the profile of cyclists and get people talking

I got a reply from the transport minister a few years ago (I think Mike Penning).

He said that they’re doing Bikeability in some schools, and also some councils offer it. Some of the people who do it will be drivers as well as cyclists, therefore there is no need to do an education campaign because drivers are getting education about cyclists’ needs through doing Bikeability.

Personally, I’d guess that the people who choose to do a bikeability course aren’t the ones who are harrassing cyclists…

Personally I reckon the standards of driving on the roads are failing. This is pretty apparent where I live because it seems indicating is largely optional. Especially at roundabouts when you play “guess where they’ll exit”.

ride at night. I went out last night about 9ish for a quick hour and it was lovely. roads were deserted.

I find most drivers in the Highlands give plenty room. The exception is on narrow roads when there is oncoming traffic, and while most will slow down and wait, every now and then there’s one who will squeeze through forcing you into the rough edge of the road.

Maybe we should all carry ballpeen hammers and wear a sign saying “If you’re close enough for me to hit you with my hammer, you’re too close” 🙂

I pulled out of my road on my bike and a 64 plate Merc raced to close the gap and sit on the car bumper infront

Take a road position that’ll stop this and accept it when you werent quick enough.

Take a road position that’ll stop this and accept it when you werent quick enough.

I do this and what often happens is that the car pulls alongside, then starts to move in, expecting you to move in too til you’re in the gutter. Except I usually hold my ground, which then results in a will-they-won’t-they battle of wills*. Usually the driver bottles it first. It’s quite fun sometimes seeing the faces of them when they realise that you’re not playing ball, but you have to be very confident and ready to get out of the way in a split second if they don’t give way.

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/mar/24/cycling-near-miss-close-pass-road-rage

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-32054221

Just yesterday, very close to where I live 😐

I do this and what often happens is that the car pulls alongside, then starts to move in, expecting you to move in too til you’re in the gutter. Except I usually hold my ground, which then results in a will-they-won’t-they battle of wills*. Usually the driver bottles it first. It’s quite fun sometimes seeing the faces of them when they realise that you’re not playing ball, but you have to be very confident and ready to get out of the way in a split second if they don’t give way.

I’ve started doing this too.

In slow traffic that I can keep up with I just take primary. I pull over when there is a big enough gap for whatever is behind me to actually pass me not just squeeze alongside.

It does work, can be unnerving though, I wouldn’t try it with a bus

I blame Top Gear

In slow traffic that I can keep up with I just take primary. I pull over when there is a big enough gap for whatever is behind me to actually pass me not just squeeze alongside.

+1 I even go as far as pulling over & stopping to let a vehicle past me if they are struggling to do so safely.

Having always commuted on my bike, and ridden everywhere possible I made the decision last summer that I no longer wanted cycle commute because I didn’t feel the risk was worth it. Whilst I have no doubt that having kids changes your mindset towards risk, I also feel that there was absolutely no respect given to me and my well-being by some drivers. I know this is a minority of drivers, but I did feel that it was slowly getting worse, and only takes one dickhead from this minority to knock you over. What really used to get me was the apparent hilarity of a near miss, or the abuse I seemed to cop if a driver pulled out on me.

This makes me sad as I’m now fatter and less fit then I was, and goes against my belief that we should use cars as little as possible. So there we have it, the wannabe Clarksons/James Martins et al won in my case.

I only rarely ride a few select road routes that I think are reasonably safe, otherwise I stick to off road. I’m pretty keen on bikes and have a nice road bike, so I think that says something about public confidence in road cycling in Britain.

The UK (or at least the SE) is the worst place for road cycling from all of the countries I’ve ever ridden in. Probably not the most statistically dangerous but the least respect from motorists and the least attention paid by drivers to vulnerable road users.

jam bo – Member
ride at night. I went out last night about 9ish for a quick hour and it was lovely. roads were deserted.

But again, that’s not really true as it depends on where you ride.

I normally ride home from work at 9 along empty cycle paths. But, on the occasions I drive, it’s noticeable how many badly driven small hatchbacks are around, heading towards the city centre. There’s a very good reason why some insurers impose a curfew on young drivers.

Something said earlier in this thread occurred to me while I picked the kids up from school, something about 99% of drivers being fine.

I remembered an old Specsavers poster about the number of drivers needing glasses and not wearing them. A quick check reveals a 1000 strong survey where 9% of people didn’t always wear glass/contacts despite needing them (Of course, this is separate from the % who need glasses and haven’t had their eyes tested.) So, let’s say 1 in 10 with defective eyesight.

Let’s think about uninsured drivers – over 1,000,000 on the road. Here in S Wales about 1 in 20. In Merseyside 1 in 8!

What about driving over the alcohol limit? Drugs?

Add in drivers in unsafe cars. Drivers who haven’t got a licence. Maybe it’s worth adding in the drivers who are simply unsafe, incompetent. Those who are distracted by their phone or think it’s acceptable to drive through red lights, maybe?

Of course many of these people will fall into several categories but I reckon that the number of ‘unsafe’ drivers may be close to 20%.

Maybe as many as 1 in every 5 cars that pass you should simply not be on the road?

I think the biggest gains to cycling safety and cooperative road usage would come from a slick dedicated campaign targeted at drivers.

I’m not surprised the government won’t do it, but I’d definitely get behind a kickstarter project to get some pro cycling and road harmony adverts on primetime tele.

I’m even tempted to knock up some stencils and get some guerilla advertising done on my local commuting roads – just polite stuff like a picture of a bike and full lane text stating “my life’s in your hands”.

my life’s in your hands”.

[ righteous motorist] No it’s not, if you earned some proper money and bought a car then maybe you wouldn’t be endangering yourself. Stop trying to pass off blame to those of us who actually PAY to use the roads, you’ve only got yourself to blame. Just more proof that cyclists belong OFF our roads their a danger to themselves and others. And thats not just the lycra louts five abreast holding up traffic – it goes for the rest of the numpties weaving in and out of traffic, jumping red lights, hopping off the pavement, dark clothes, no lights. Natural selection at work if you get yourselves hurt – BUT guess what: if you hit a car on your stupid bicycle it’s us drivers who always gets blamed.

I hate to say this but the majority (all?) of cyclists are freeloaders – no insurance , no road tax, you hold road users up but you pay nothing. No wonder you obstruct/cycle into cars on purpose and film it on those dumb cameras – always after a payout for nothing.

You want it aaaaall your own way you cyclists. Your life is in your own hands, so (just a suggestion) – grow up, work harder and get a car join the grown ups stop playing about in the roads on your kiddy contraptions. [/righteous motorist]

OP – is the lack of cycling getting to you?

OP – is the lack of cycling getting to you?

By the Gods yes! 1 hour a night is not cutting it, not by a long shot. Need an early morning blast again, offroad, that will gather much needed zen. Thnks for the wakeup call, I just wasn’t seeing it! 😀

I think the biggest gains to cyclingroad safety and cooperative road usage would come from a slick dedicated campaign targeted at drivers all road users.

I’m not surprised the government won’t do it, but I’d definitely get behind a kickstarter project to get some pro cycling and road harmony adverts on primetime tele.

I’m even tempted to knock up some stencils and get some guerilla advertising done on my local commuting roads – just polite stuff like a picture of a bike any road user and full lane text stating “my life’s in your hands”.

I, too, think that we need to have some kind of national road safety campaign on TV but, I do think that it needs to be wider focused than ‘Cyclist v Drivers’ as that is just confrontational and emphasizes any existing ‘us and them’ mentality.

Whilst I totally get the fact that cyclists are very vulnerable, the standard of driving in general has to be addressed – I commute by car (too far to commute on a regular basis) and the things that I see on a daily basis (in the same old, predictable, locations) would make you hair curl.

It’s a bit like saying “we need to clamp down on criminals that exploit vulnerable old people”, where we really just want to clamp down on criminal behaviour in general. (Which, in my opinion, is what a lot of driving behaviour could quite easily be classified as – criminal)

</mildrant>

^^^^
Agree. Hopefully stated in my second comment:

Forgot to say – like most people who regularly ride bicycles, I see myself simply as part of the Highway ecosystem, no less or more entitled to courtesy respect than other road-users, pedestrians, motor vehicles,horse riders etc…

My rant is at the MINIMUM levels of safe driving that are being customarily breached every split second, it affects and endangers everyone, obviously those of us without airbags/a tonne of steel around us are at greater risk from cars than anything else.

But lately? Lately (over the last decade) I have noticed not only the marked increase in day-long motor traffic – but the quite frankly terrifying DE-crease in road awareness, signalling, just driving standards in general.

+whatever. I stopped commuting through Surrey as I was getting nervous before every ride and in particular the evening commute (between Addlestone – Slough – Addlestone, for the record). I occasionally rode with an ex Cat 1 that did it daily – he used to leave before 7am to beat the morning rush, but the evening traffic seemed pretty consistent between about 4 and 7pm.

Driving also seems to be getting worse though too. As a driver I now do minimal miles, most of which are on single lane, windy roads. While dropping my daughter off at childcare (10 mins tops) I will usually see two or three cars exiting blind bends in the middle of the road. Maybe I’m a little sensitive (I was hit by someone doing exactly this a few years back (mine’s the Focus): https://www.flickr.com/photos/pimpmasterjazz/4776905596/ ) but it does seem to be commonplace. Bizarrely my folks have recently moved back out to the sticks and commented on exactly the same behaviour as well.

Or maybe I’m just becoming my parents? 😉

While dropping my daughter off at childcare (10 mins tops) I will usually see two or three cars exiting blind bends in the middle of the road. Maybe I’m a little sensitive (I was hit by someone doing exactly this a few years back (mine’s the Focus): https://www.flickr.com/photos/pimpmasterjazz/4776905596/ ) but it does seem to be commonplace.

I almost got hit by a paramedic overtaking on a blind bend (through a narrowing of the road, under a railway tunnel) last week. He had his lights and sirens on but there was simply no way of seeing them because of the way the road bends. I was doing just over 30 on a road where people commonly do 50. (Speed limit there is 30 but it’s flanked by waste ground, nothing more, so people seem to think it’s NSL.) Had I been really speeding we would have collided front on at almost 100mph combined, I’m guessing.

I think he was heading to a collision between a van and pony/trap, where a woman had been thrown from her seat. She looked shaken but was standing, stretching.

While I understand the need for paramedic’s speed, I was a little disturbed that he thought it acceptable to drive in such a dangerous manner.