69% of Leave voters thought the decision “might make us a bit better or worse off as a country, but there probably isn’t much in it either way”.

Oh and of course there are all those Leavers who are disappointed that we voted to leave 🙄

For what it’s worth…
Probably needed to happen but managed badly and held at the wrong time.
Putting a third box on the ballot
– I hate the current government and want to send a message
would have changed the result massively.
There were several issues being rolled into one here like a byelection a year post a GE the result tells you the mood of the people not what they want.

Trying to divorce the 2 issues is tough and in a Trump/Corbyn/Saunders (yes I am lumping those 3 together) anti establishment era of politics a lot of the remain message was lost because of who said it. Regardless of what they said it was shouted down by people telling you stats lie, politicians (except us) lie, they are all only in it for themselves, business what do they know etc.

Well as some of the banks are moving staff out then they probably have a good idea (of course we don’t need them or the taxes they pay)

Couple that with the most worrying of all responses – Remain should have presented a better case – it’s almost as if you are saying leave was BS but at least they had a better powerpoint. I’ve been in sales meetings where people make silly claims about their product because they know once it’s sold they have the cash and you have to deal with it.

Finally if you are going to hold a referendum on something like this at least set out better rules.
To effect a change 50% of the Enrolled Voters need to agree to it or 60% of the turnout if you don’t get there.

What doesn’t amaze me is it’s only taken 24hrs for the realisation to set in that it might not all be awesome.

Why can’t I stop listening to discussions/reporting via the radio regarding the referendum vote?, Its not as if it’s going to change the current situation is it?…………I can only surmise that in some dark recess of my brain there is a small bundle of neurons that deals with reasoning/discussion and they are desperately holding out for a genuine and intelligent argument to be presented regarding the Brexit outcome. I’m not asking for much, just a single valid and reasonable statement from one of the 17,410,742 Brexiters so I can allay my fears that 51.9% of the country are **** imbeciles who can’t be trusted………..just one fact so that I can mull it over and perhaps come to a conclusion that they may have a valid point, is that too much to ask?.

However after listening to a recent 5live interview with leave voters (2am sat morning), I feel my initial reaction to cry out “**** idiots!” rings true. I know…..I know…… “give it up – go to sleep ffsake!” I hear you cry but I can’t ……not whilst I have a few electrical impulses left in my tired brain…..pop……pop-pop….fizzle…..firing away with foolish optimism but I can sense that my little bundle of neurons are withering and dying, my hope of coming to an understanding as to “Why the **** did you vote to leave?” is fading fast.

Perhaps I’ll wake up tmorn and it will all have been some horrific nightmare, or perhaps I’be been correct all along.

There genuinely is 17,410,742 **** idiots in our country.

Gnight……….

“classic example of why large sections of the population should not be allowed to vote.”

Kennyp – so you don’t even want to live in a democracy then…you’d take the vote from those that disagree with you!?

Kennyp – so you don’t even want to live in a democracy then…you’d take the vote from those that disagree with you!?

Perhaps a short multiple choice quiz before getting your ballot paper to prove you had taken some interest would be good

Yes the people asked and it’s the system we have.
If it hasn’t gone your way then one would simply look else where to relocate or make it work for you.

I think what is taking people by surprise now is the fact that the EU member states want article 50 triggered asap by the UK government, whereas, the leave camp were saying they are not going to rush.

Unfortunately, I think this has potential to get rather unpleasant. I get the impression that some members of the EU elite can’t quite grasp that someone has opted out of the club. Juncker’s tone is one that isn’t very helpful.

I am therefore in favor of getting article 50 signed and let’s get on with it.

Unfortunately, I think this has potential to get rather unpleasant. I get the impression that some members of the EU elite can’t quite grasp that someone has opted out of the club. Juncker’s tone is one that isn’t very helpful.

It’s his responsibility to look after the EU interest not the UK, thats what the UK Political Elite is for (the leave camp was stuffed with them)
Maybe something was lost in the translation but the tone seems spot on

“In a free and democratic process, the British people have expressed their wish to leave the European Union. We regret this decision but respect it.
This is an unprecedented situation but we are united in our response. We will stand strong and uphold the EU’s core values of promoting peace and the well-being of its peoples. The Union of 27 Member States will continue. The Union is the framework of our common political future. We are bound together by history, geography and common interests and will develop our cooperation on this basis. Together we will address our common challenges to generate growth, increase prosperity and ensure a safe and secure environment for our citizens. The institutions will play their full role in this endeavour.
We now expect the United Kingdom government to give effect to this decision of the British people as soon as possible, however painful that process may be. Any delay would unnecessarily prolong uncertainty. We have rules to deal with this in an orderly way. Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union sets out the procedure to be followed if a Member State decides to leave the European Union. We stand ready to launch negotiations swiftly with the United Kingdom regarding the terms and conditions of its withdrawal from the European Union. Until this process of negotiations is over, the United Kingdom remains a member of the European Union, with all the rights and obligations that derive from this. According to the Treaties which the United Kingdom has ratified, EU law continues to apply to the full to and in the United Kingdom until it is no longer a Member.
As agreed, the “New Settlement for the United Kingdom within the European Union”, reached at the European Council on 18-19 February 2016, will now not take effect and ceases to exist. There will be no renegotiation.
As regards the United Kingdom, we hope to have it as a close partner of the European Union in the future. We expect the United Kingdom to formulate its proposals in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the United Kingdom as a third country, will have to reflect the interests of both sides and be balanced in terms of rights and obligations.”

You decided, you got what you wanted, we are not going to be dragged into the political games of the people who want out. YOu voted out remember…

Prolonging the exit is bad for all concerned. However as soon as it is signed the UK is at a disadvantage as it’s up to the EU to like and agree to the settlement.

You have quoted a post leave statement from the union. The actual wording of article 50 is shown below.

Article 50

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1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49

The tone being used by Juncker would suggest there is an additional clause that states article 50 will be signed by the following Monday. The EU council adopting a “we will **** the UK up for leaving” is not going to help matters and just reinforces the message that the EU is in fact a dictatorship.

The tone being used by Juncker would suggest there is an additional clause that states article 50 will be signed by the following Monday. The EU council adopting a “we will **** the UK up for leaving” is not going to help matters and just reinforces the message that the EU is in fact a dictatorship.

That was Junkers statement, I made the assumption that was where the tone you were objecting to was???
Do you have something more solid that the tone, like a statement or words?

Oh the EU are going to **** us over big time. They are not want to going to set a precedent of easy exit.

Also what hasn’t been made clear is that the 2 yr window is only to negotiate how we leave and the very basic framework for how future trade agreements will be negotiated.

The actual trade agreements will take many years to conclude and what happens between the conclusion of article 50 negotiations and having trade agreements in place is unknown.

Probably WTO basic rules with all the tariffs etc they entail. Of course to Leave we’ll have better trade deals ultimately. I think this is unlikely…

dannybgoode – Member
Oh the EU are going to **** us over big time. They are not want to going to set a precedent of easy exit.

you see nothing short of free trade, not movement of people and possibly the EU paying us for the privilege will be portrayed as OK by the UK side. It’s not being **** over if the other side does what is best for the majority.

Reminds me of a scene from last weeks game of thrones where the guys turn up to demand surrender but end up dead. It’s always important to know the strength of your hand

Then the EU has a short memory, it’s when someone is trying to bend the UK over and screw us that ‘we’ tend to be at our most antagonistic best, they’d do well to show some grace and shake our hand for 40+yrs of good membership….but no, as someone else said they’ll want to punish the UK for leaving their expensive little club.

I’m more than happy with a few years of pain if it means I can stick two fingers up to Brussels in a couple years time and say “we did it, and without you”….

Edit: the EU are pissy because they’ve lost a net contributor, who’s going to fund the new roads and infrastructure in the poorer countries lining up to join now?….oh dear France and Germany, looks like it’s on you again!

Greece to go next?

I’m more than happy with a few years of pain if it means I can stick two fingers up to Brussels in a couple years time and say “we did it, and without you”….

You do realize you in for a whole word of pain posting comments like that. Brace yourself for the onslaught of comments. Chuckle, chuckle.

I’m still in angry mode.

Today I have heard people laughing about the referendum result as if it was taking a 50p flutter on the Grand National and then giving the most vacuous and stupid reasons for voting out.

Then the EU has a short memory, it’s when someone is trying to bend the UK over and screw us that ‘we’ tend to be at our most antagonistic best, they’d do well to show some grace and shake our hand for 40+yrs of good membership….but no, as someone else said they’ll want to punish the UK for leaving their expensive little club.

I’m more than happy with a few years of pain if it means I can stick two fingers up to Brussels in a couple years time and say “we did it, and without you”….

Edit: the EU are pissy because they’ve lost a net contributor, who’s going to fund the new roads and infrastructure in the poorer countries lining up to join now?….oh dear France and Germany, looks like it’s on you again!

Greece to go next?

Jingoistic bollocks, if the leavers don’t want to be called idiots they need to stop behaving like idiots,

Kennyp – so you don’t even want to live in a democracy then…you’d take the vote from those that disagree with you!?

Not at all. I’d make voters sit an intelligence test and only folk scoring about a certain level would get the franchise. Would probably meaning never being able to vote again myself but worth it.

should the referendum have even been held…?

for what purpose?
for an uneducated and uninformed electorate of parochial halfwits and misanthropic pseudo-intellectuals to decide the economic future of our country with info they’ve gleaned from facebook and newspapers and their deaf grandad

it’s a total **** sham

there has to be more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye or else I think we’ll have to admit that we are governed by a group of mad fools

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36642662#video-36642662

I agree wholeheartedly with yunki. It was ludicrous put put forward a referendum on whether to leave the EU when it’s one or two particular issues which cause concern to the general public. Throwing baby out with the bathwater.

No, of course it shouldn’t have been held. Once it was, and it became obvious that the Leave campaign were just lying, and being allowed to get away with it by the media, Remain should just have told better lies. If they’d said that if you vote remain we’ll give you a kitten and free beer for life the result would have been different. But instead they stuck to facts, which the Leavers has already declared couldn’t be true because they came from an expert.

Reminds me of a Stewart Lee sketch.

‘Facts-pah. You can prove anything with facts…’

Good article from WP:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/27/the-losers-have-revolted-and-brexit-is-only-the-beginning/?tid=sm_fb

It shouldn’t have happened during the Euros anyhow, while England and Wales are in grip of a nationalist fever..

There must be grounds for a revote on that basis alone, surely? 😆

Should the referendum have been held?

It was in the Tory manifesto at the last election, so yes.

So you can thank our FPTP system, and everyone who voted Tory for this……..
I suspect that there are a few complaining in some of the threads on here who fall into that category 🙂

seosamh77 – Member 
It shouldn’t have happened during the Euros anyhow, while England and Wales are in grip of a nationalist fever..

Says a Scot 😉

….. and also in the Tory 2015 manifesto was a commitment to the ‘ambition’ to reduce net migration to the 10’s of thousands.
So once again, any Tory voters shouldn’t be wringing their hands now. 🙂

Theres probably less than 100 people in the UK with the access to all the raw data, and the knowledge to properly interpret it.

Its overly harsh to brand the 17 million leavers as idiots, when in fact roughly 32 million ill informed voters (me included) all took part in the idiocy.

It’s awfully tricky to find a manifesto all of which you agree with (I suspect even CMD has that trouble).

Except when you don’t have the skills to interpret it all properly you rely on the experts. Unless of course you’re Michael Gove. Or unless you trust Michael Gove!

i don’t trust Gove he could not even get his Einstein vs 100 experts analogy right.

He just basically Godwinned though didn’t he?

It shouldn’t have happened during the Euros anyhow, while England and Wales are in grip of a nationalist fever..

Good point. And not during Wimbledon or the TdF or the Olympics, etc….

It’s like the song don’t cry for me Agentina
Thinks what’s needed is a petition as to why we have not started departure and get on with it