Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 128 total)
  • Should I forgive the SNP?
  • athgray
    Free Member

    Sturgeon promises to reform Westminster for ALL in the UK

    With the general election round the corner I liked a lot of what I heard from Sturgeon. It is good to hear her show some support for those I have advocated for a while. I even will not rule out a vote for them.

    I don’t know if the party will seek forgiveness, but I might just manage to forgive them.
    I cannot speak though for the people she now vows to help, that were not worthy of this assistance a mere 6 months ago.

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    OK, I’ll bite.

    What does the SNP need forgiveness for then?

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    Or in other words you’re finally starting to see sense.

    enfht
    Free Member

    She revolting, nothing but a badly painted corpse. Wonder if she smells as bad as she looks.

    What does the SNP need forgiveness for then?

    You mean apart from attempting to break the union?

    athgray
    Free Member

    My political views have not changed wanmankylung. I have always expressed the view that Scottish independence does not help many of the UK’s poorest. It seems that the SNP may have shifted. The mountain has come to Muhammad!

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    In what way have the SNP shifted?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Maybe they could start a British wide party with the same political ideas. They could call it… The British National Party..
    oh wait..

    AD
    Full Member

    LOL at Molgrips!

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    enfht – Member

    She revolting, nothing but a badly painted corpse. Wonder if she smells as bad as she looks.

    What does the SNP need forgiveness for then?

    You mean apart from attempting to break the union?

    OK so in someone’s opinion this is inherently bad – can you explain?
    I still don’t see why, and 45+% of my compatriots seem to agree.

    Oh and well done bringing it down to being about a woman’s looks. Actually ,no need to a answer my questions, you’re not worth listening to.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    It comes down to the leader of the SCOTTISH NATIONAL Party, deciding she knows what’s best for the rest of the UK, and she’ll force the rest of the UK to go along, come hell or high water.
    Am I alone in thinking there’s a slight lack of democratic process going on here?

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    Am I alone in thinking there’s a slight lack of democratic process going on here?

    She can only do it if enough people vote for the SNP. Sounds very democratic.

    downshep
    Full Member

    The democratic process allowed the lib dems to bolster the tories into power, against the wishes of many, not least some lib dems! If a Lab / SNP coalition were to spring up, it would be no less democratic. Of course had senior tories, lib dems and labour politicians not travelled north the week before the referendum to charm undecideds into voting no, they wouldn’t now be in this position of the SNP having such potential leverage in a Westminster election. Reap what you sow and all that.

    Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    She revolting, nothing but a badly painted corpse. Wonder if she smells as bad as she looks.

    What does the SNP need forgiveness for then?
    You mean apart from attempting to break the union?

    You’re symptomatic of what is wrong with society’s views on politics now, what does someone look like?. It’s not bloody X factor. And the SNP weren’t attempting to break up the union, only looking to have scotland recognised as a country on its own. I’m sure if that had happened, the rest of the Union may have brought that about themselves.

    muddydwarf
    Free Member

    Is it democratic if, as looks likely, the SNP get to impose their policies (regardless of what they actually are) on an electors that had no opportunity to to actually vote for them?
    Scots would be upset if the DUP (for example) held the balance of power in the Scots Parliament when no Scot could vote for the DUP.
    Just a thought.

    Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    My little dwarfy friend, you don’t do irony, do you?.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Aye, but this is the UK Parliament and all MPs are (currently) regarded as equal. A minority government propped up by the likes of the DUP is perfectly possible too.

    muddydwarf
    Free Member

    I wouldn’t mind in the slightest if I had the opportunity or not to vote for the SNP, if they want to play in the national sandpit surely they should try to stand in as wide a base as possible?
    Scots don’t vote Tory but at least they have an opportunity to consider then reject a Tory candidate.

    Same goes for the DUP.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    You are suggesting that Scotland sending MPs to Westminster is OK as long as they are from one of the Unionist parties. That’s democracy?

    How many Labour, Tory or LibDem candidates are there in NI?

    muddydwarf
    Free Member

    No, I’m suggesting that as a Westminster party they attempt to appeal to a wider base than Scottish Nationalists. That by attempting to show their policies to the wider UK electorate they would gain a wider acceptance as a party fit to govern the UK rather than the current perception of a separatist party wanting only to cause trouble for the rest of the Union. That may not be how they are seen in Scotland but in the wider UK its an idea that has gained traction.

    joshvegas
    Free Member

    Presumable Muddytroll is against independents and other smaller parties that couldn’t stand for everyseat?

    Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    Druid, avoid entering a battle of wits with one who is unarmed…..

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    She revolting, nothing but a badly painted corpse. Wonder if she smells as bad as she looks.

    Can I see a picture of you as obviously I cannot react to your views till I know what you look like .

    I cannot think why the dont want to stay friends with you and remain in a union with you.

    in the wider UK its an idea that has gained traction.

    Perhaps within certain circles, the one who hate the EU and immigrants and the like? No one I ask [ in England] has any views at all on the SNP. Most are not sure what they stand for tbh and old labour folk yearn for a party like them

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    No, I’m suggesting that as a Westminster party they attempt to appeal to a wider base than Scottish Nationalists.

    Please define “Wesminster party”.

    muddydwarf
    Free Member

    Yes, very good Mr Vegas – well done for spotting the subtle aim 🙄
    The difference is that the SNP are an avowed separatist party with the aim of complete independence from the UK and with a recent history of seeming extremely anti-UK from many viewpoints. Surely that is allowed to raise some concerns about the level of democratic interaction with the wider UK electorate? If enough independents all with the same policies stand across the UK then you have a de facto party and therefore not a problem. Its the idea that – regardless of policy – the wider UK isn’t getting a chance to study then vote for the policies that may well be imposed on them. The same goes for Plaid Cymru or the DUP, if they are to have a hand in governing us it would be well to have a chance to vote. It may well be that SNP policies appeal to many disaffected English/Welsh voters, but we will not get the chance to choose or reject them.

    muddydwarf
    Free Member

    Westminster Party – a political grouping in the UK parliament at Westminster. Good enough?

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    Not really – what would you define as a “political grouping”?

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    I will leave it to you to tell the Unionists in Northern Ireland there they are neithe rBritish nor westminster.

    seeming extremely anti-UK

    BS there is far more anti SNP feelings in England than the other way round. How much anti SNP stuff has there been so far whilst you accuse them 😕

    It may well be that SNP policies appeal to many disaffected English/Welsh voters, but we will not get the chance to choose or reject them.

    you really expect me to believe that the anti SNP english will stop hating them if the start standing in England?
    REALLY

    muddydwarf
    Free Member

    A political grouping/party – group of MPs at Westminster all of whom follow the same declared policy/political ideology. Semantics, really?

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    I reckon that a change of name and standing in english and welsh constituencies would see the party elected in maybe three or four parliaments time.

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    So you think that the SNP is just a group of MPs in Westminster who have the same declared policy or ideology? That’s your definition and it’s stupid.

    muddydwarf
    Free Member

    Junky, many people may indeed vote for the SNP in England, we don’t know. After all it was you independence supporters who kept telling the rest of us how progessive and social leaning the party are – further left than Labour remember?
    So why wouldn’t they vote for a party offering that? Just because I dont trust the SNP’s intentions towards thr rest of us doesn’t mean others would feel the same.

    muddydwarf
    Free Member

    So go on then, what DOES define a political party???

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    A political party is an organization of people which seeks to achieve goals common to its members through the acquisition and exercise of political power.

    That’s what wikipedia says.

    muddydwarf
    Free Member

    And how does that differ? Really?

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    How does it differ from the SNP being a group of MPs in Westminster?

    You really need me to explain that?

    muddydwarf
    Free Member

    Yes please. In practice the SNP would be a political party at Westminster wielding some level of political power in the UK Govt, ergo a Westminster Party. In just the same way the Conservative and Liberal Democrats can be both Westminster parties and parties of local govt in the UK so can the SNP be the party of Scottish Govt and a partner in a UK Govt at Westminster. What is difficult about that concept?

    epicsteve
    Free Member

    If the SNP are the biggest party in Scotland (which looks very likely) then what’s the problem of a agreement between them and the biggest party in the rest of the UK (who look like they’re only going to get maybe 35% or so of the total votes cast anyway) to govern the UK as a whole? Surely that’s as close to a democratic outcome as we’re going to get in this election?

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    What is difficult about that concept?

    Precisely nothing, so why do you have such a big problem with it?

    codybrennan
    Free Member

    Sad to say, that when many media commentators (and some here too) use the word ‘undemocratic’ to describe what might be about to happen, they really mean ‘unfair’.

    Since when has a representative democracy been fair? This is the reality- its always been this way. Nothing new to see here.

    Personal opinion: PR nationally is what we need- it works well in Scotland, is pretty balanced, is far more reflective of realpolitik, avoids (to an extent) the horror of tactical voting.

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