I wonder what percentage of the cabinet/shadow cabinet are privately educated oxbridge graduates. I am sure your right Ernie about the numbers but what about the numbers where the real power is, the heart of government so to speak.

Well the Leader of the Labour Party isn’t privately educated, but yes, the Shadow Cabinet of this recently dissolved Parliament had a higher percentage of privately educated politicians than the average for Labour.

The average of Labour MPs privately educated was 10% while the Shadow Cabinet was 22%. That’s still less though than 36% of the Coalition Cabinet.

Interestingly 52% of all Conservative MPs and 41% of all LibDem MPs received private education which suggests that the Cabinet was less “elitist” than the majority of both Conservative and LibDem MPs, the reverse of Labour. Very Strange 😕

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/aug/28/elitism-in-britain-breakdown-by-profession

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31140623

Not surprising that the numbers are so low. Why waste a good education? 😉

And no sign of football on the list – Eton should never have introduced rugby!

Labour, Tories, LibDem and UKIP are all the same party.

In case you didn’t hear that properly:
Labour, Tories, LibDem and UKIP are all the same party.

All controlled by the EU and elite networks, and whoever gets ‘elected’ just does what they’re told by their bankrollers.

I can’t believe it’s 2015 and people talk about these parties like there’s a **** difference

That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the JiveHoneyJive Party

Vote human remove the lizards

… whoever gets ‘elected’ just does what they’re told by their bankrollers.

Whilst I don’t disagree that there aren’t sufficient and significant differences between the Conservatives Labour and the Liberal Democrats to give people a meaningful and worthwhile choice between them, how does your claim that they do “what they’re told by their bankrollers” fit in with your theory when the Labour Party is bankrolled by the affiliated trade unions?

Are you seriously suggesting that the affiliated trade unions are telling the Labour Party to behave like Tories?

Are you seriously suggesting that the aims of the affiliated trade unions are the same as the aims of wealthy tax dodging Tory donors?

Today’s Labour Party completely ignores the wishes of the Trade Unions which founded it to represent them in Parliament, and which today still keeps it from bankruptcy by pouring millions into their coffers every year. It’s time everyone, including trade union members, woke up to that fact.

Today’s Labour Party completely ignores the wishes of the Trade Unions which founded it to represent them in Parliament, and still today keeps it from bankruptcy by pouring millions into their coffers every year. It’s time everyone, including trade union members, woke up to that fact.

It is strange that basically the trade union doesn’t really represent the political views of it’s members. Many people are “obliged” to join for any number of reasons but not actively participate. The Union leadership then push their views onto the Labour party who then chooses to ignore them, perhaps because they are not the views of society as a whole.

Blaming Labour for a shift to the right or a shift to electability is also an interesting idea. Would it please you more to have had no labour government but a labour party in opposition who’s ideas were not in line with a majority of the country.

While I agree that protection of workers rights and standing up for what is right is important, in many ways the trade unions have disappeared up their own arses and left common sense a long way off. The last one I was asked to join I had to decline as they were a bunch of mad fantasists with no idea how the rest of the UK was doing while demanding a 6% pay rise and unconditional bonuses of about another 6% while the rest of the publicly funded UK was getting 2%. The worst bit is they thought they were worth it.

If these threads remind me of anything it’s that people don’t vote for policy, they don’t look forward and it’s to the detriment to the future. Blame politicians all you want but then ask what you did to change it.

Many people are “obliged” to join for any number of reasons …

I didn’t bother reading beyond that. No one is “obliged” to join a trade union.

No one is “obliged” to join a trade union.

Really?
Want a say on how your pay and conditions are negotiated?
In a bit of a fix and want some cheap legal cover?
Feel like there is something going on and you want some support?

Most of the people I knew joined for self serving reasons with no interest in influencing the policy of the Labour party.

Most of the people I knew joined for self serving reasons

So they were not obliged to join then.

Not something which I necessarily agree with but that’s the law. Your claim was false.

Well done ernie, add another gold star to your Pedantry badge. I guess that makes my entire argument invalid then…(if you had bothered to read it)

EDIT as ernie spotted it as well: its not pedantry you have given two different reasons for why they joined oh and said you were asked to but declined – shall we call that three reasons?

woo hoo I made a mistake with my language, may the gods of STW punish me….

The link between unions and labour is there but it might be time for it to be broken for both their sakes. Political parties need to exist in the context of the current world. If enough people supported a real socialist government you would probably get one. Problem is not enough do.

Junkyard – lazarus
Vote human remove the lizards

I would agree 100% in that context, however I’m not a statist because I don’t believe I need a government to tell/force me how to live my life. Do you?

ernie_lynch – Member
Whilst I don’t disagree that there aren’t sufficient and significant differences between the Conservatives Labour and the Liberal Democrats to give people a meaningful and worthwhile choice between them, how does your claim that they do “what they’re told by their bankrollers” fit in with your theory when the Labour Party is bankrolled by the affiliated trade unions?

Are you seriously suggesting that the affiliated trade unions are telling the Labour Party to behave like Tories?

Are you seriously suggesting that the aims of the affiliated trade unions are the same as the aims of wealthy tax dodging Tory donors?Your 1st question is answered by my answers to your 2nd and 3rd questions, which are yes and yes.

If I was a statist and wanted to vote for a government I would want to know what secret societies anyone I’m supposed to vote for belongs to. And also who goes to Bilderberg meetings.
But we’re not told these things and yet people still put faith into a bunch of sick, occult-obsessed, paedo-ring apologist psychopath to$$ers.
No thanks, my conscience couldn’t let me.

I voted for Labour once – 1997.
I really thought they would do some good – the smoking advertising ban was a big thing.
Then,the ban was discarded, as Bernie Ecclestone had donated £1m to the Labour party.
Of course, they said the 2 things weren’t related.
They are all back stabbing s**ites who would sell their Mother rather than do the right thing.

Blair has got to be the worst PM in my lifetime – he did the job for himself, not the Country, and made sure he would be a multi-millionaire when he left office.
Thatcher gets most of the diatribe about poor PMs, but she had principals, as did John Major, who was not a great PM, yet he is respected still as he didnt sell us out, unlike Blair and Brown (who sold our gold off for a ridiculously low sum).

I keep hearing ‘gold’…. What use was it being put to? I would rather have £5 for a tyre I’ve never used in my shed today than the uncertain promise it will be worth £20 tomorrow. Especially if I really need that £5.

If tomorrow it was worth £20 i would get on with my life.

And if you feel like saying “it was a lot more than that”, how much was it per person?

Anyway, shit happens. Doesn’t mean it will happen again. Do you really think it was a deliberate move?

How is you ability to predict the price of gold anyway? I assume you’re making a mint on the international metals market?

OK, sorry, this sounds a little rude, but it’s what I think when I hear than line again!

Just a vent in general really.

woo hoo I made a mistake with my language, may the gods of STW punish me

What you did was negate your own point at least twice. No one is punishing you they are just pointing out that its a weak argument you have put forth so weak even you dont agree with it.[ no offence meant there is no nice way to put that as you contradicted yourself twice]

I’m not a statist because I don’t believe I need a government to tell/force me how to live my life. Do you?

IMHO there are some pretty obvious areas where it is best that we all agree the rules and behave in a certain manner for the greatest benefit of us all. Say the roads for example. I dont think having no rules or enforcement of the rules would lead to better driving conditions/standards for or by all users.

Government was a response to lawlessness. look what happens in governless countries still today. Whatever you want to describe it is as it not an outbreak of brotherly love and mutual respect for human rights.

Government is not perfect the alternative is far worse.
I agree its usually OTT and I remain a libertarian where the role of the state is largely to protect you from harm [ physical, financial, health and well being not just an enemy]

Apropos of politics in general, I quite enjoyed this BBC piece this morning on What’s Gone Wrong With Party Politics – “the campaign consists of insults thrown with passionate force across the distance of a pinhead.” I like that. 🙂

Linky

Fear not Tony Blair is here!

The snivelling little hypocrit has arrived to help / destroy Eds chances of success.

Hang on a minute Tony, didn’t you promise a referendum for the people on the EU in 2004 and 2005? Thought so.

Maybe with his reappearance we can at least slap a war crimes charge against him?

LHS – Member
Fear not Tony Blair is here!

The snivelling little hypocrit has arrived to help / destroy Eds chances of success.

Wallace needs more help to look unelectable – who knew?

Bliar is a self-serving liar. The EU issue ought to be very simple, were it not deliberately obfuscated by those with a stake.
1. In general are governments and politicians honest, efficient, hard-working and self-less, or are they self-serving, manipulative, corrupt and deaf to the concerns of voters?
2. Given your thoughts on the above, do you want more or less layers of government and tax-takers?

FFS! Just don’t vote for Labour for 3 to 4 terms to let others have their fill coz Labour had theirs already. Put it this way they are all the same especially those large parties …

Chill man chill! Have fun and turn the politics up side down for once as nothing much will change because the equilibrium is there. i.e. the British society will eventually balanced thing out in the following election.

Wake them ZM up and don’t let them take you for a ride. None of them can guarantee you a better life but they will definitely guarantee themselves a better one if you do not stir things up. Power gets to their heads and if they are not taught a lesson to behave.

I mean stick to/vote the same party? Are you over 60s? 🙄

Trust the politicians? You might as well jump off London Bridge.

I would love an ID card – bloody useful to have instead of lugging a passport around.

And more convenient than having to check if you have a recent electricity bill.

I would love an ID card – bloody useful to have instead of lugging a passport around.

And more convenient than having to check if you have a recent electricity bill. [/quote]

Until you lose it (or it’s stolen) and suddenly you’re denied all sorts of essential services and find yourself having to defend your right to be in the UK…

and find yourself having to defend your right to be in the UK…

Surely that’s only really a problem for non-whites and those who speak English with a foreign accent ?

mikewsmith – Member

Blaming Labour for a shift to the right or a shift to electability is also an interesting idea. Would it please you more to have had no labour government but a labour party in opposition who’s ideas were not in line with a majority of the country.

Abso-****in-lutely. That’s what you do- you stay true to yourself and to your beliefs and if temporarily the country doesn’t support that, you do whatever you can to change their minds. Otherwise you might as well not bother. If you change everything you hold precious in order to win, or you turn into your opposition to “beat” them, you already lost. Winning at any cost is futile.

Arguably though, they didn’t have to make the swing to the right, that’s the real tragedy of it.

Don’t be silly, singling out people like that for scrutiny would be racist

It’s like Police searches, every search of a ninety year old war veteran on his way to a remembrance parade or a great grandma toddling back from the shops with her tartan wheely cart is another box ticked and another potential terror attack foiled!

ernie_lynch – Member
Surely that’s only really a problem for non-whites and those who speak English with a foreign accent ?

When my Geordie colleagues speak I tend to ask them to speak English, same goes to Liverpudlian, Brummy, Scots, Welsh or Irish etc … 😆

With my strong North Borneo accent I speak to them in such a way slowly “Could … you … speak … English … please … I … don’t … understand … you” Bang! All hell break loose … 😆

Until you lose it (or it’s stolen) and suddenly you’re denied all sorts of essential services and find yourself having to defend your right to be in the UK…

The French don’t seem to find that a problem and in any case you can then revert to using your passport whilst your replacement card is sent out. Aside from your ID card you have a Carte Vitale, without it you have to pay in full at the doctors.

FWIW the lack of ID cards is one of the reasons cited by illegal immigrants for coming to the UK

With my strong North Borneo accent …….

Have you actually got a right to be in the UK, North Borneo doesn’t sound like part of the EU ?

You should forgive the Labour Party, but Tony “Iraq” Blair killed it, Gordy “Vow” Brown danced on its grave and Jim Murphy is pissing on it.

ernie_lynch – Member

With my strong North Borneo accent …….

Have you actually got a right to be in the UK, North Borneo doesn’t sound like part of the EU ? [/quote]

The Queen, Tony Blair and the Geordie say yes because they like me so I did not have to jump out from the back of a lorry.

FWIW the lack of ID cards is one of the reasons cited by illegal immigrants for coming to the UK

Source?

Is it true for the other 4 areas in the EU without EU ID cards?

The Queen, Tony Blair and the Geordie say yes because they like me so I did not have to jump out from the back of a lorry.

I bet Nigel Farage wouldn’t like you.

I’m not convinced that you didn’t jump out from the back of a lorry anyway. Got any proof?

Source?

JY, French TV interviewing immigrants camped out at Calais waiting to jump onto Lorries. Its easier to work illegally in the the UK than in France. Other regions I cannot comment.

Non-Dom

What Labour cannot say is how much this will actually riase or indeed if it will cost money. Seems odd they did nothing about the status for 13 years when in power when the number of non-doms increased dramatically.

I do think the rules should be reformed, eg non-dom payment due immediately (not after 7 or 17 years) and can be claimed for a max of say 5 or 10 years and never again. Upfront payment of £50,000 or £100,000 due immediately status is claimed. That would see upfront payments of £5.5bn to £11bn plus the taxes due on UK income. Surely a better solution.

I don’t think as proposed this will raise money, Abramovich isn’t going to suddenly start paying hundreds of millions in taxes. He will move abroad and spend 30 days a year here. There is a very real risk this move would reduce the tax take.

From what I read non-doms currently pay around £130,000 on average in UK taxes – that would implies a total tax take of £14bn from the 110,000 non-doms plus of course all the VAT they would pay and money they put into the economy not least by running a UK business/office as many do (and on which they pay UK taxes of course).

opps – seem’s there is a recording of Balls on BBC Radio Leeds saying in January that abolishing non-dom status would probably cost the treasury money in lost taxes.

Video: Reforming rules raises extra taxes, abolishing them probably costs money

I don’t think as proposed this will raise money, Abramovich isn’t going to suddenly start paying hundreds of millions in taxes. He will move abroad and spend 30 days a year here. There is a very real risk this move would reduce the tax take.

I couldn’t care less if it reduces the tax take. It’s a moral question, and some things are above money, like everyone living by the same rules, irregardless of how rich they are.

Is it true for the other 4 areas in the EU without EU ID cards?

Which are they, AAMOI ?

Got off my lazy ass and Google’d – from Wikipedia:

“National identity cards are issued to citizens of all European Union member states except Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom”.

Denmark does not have a national identity card, but it does have a yellow health card which serves essentially the same purpose, and has an efficient system of identity numbers (CPR-nummer) which are used for keeping track of more or less everything.

JY, French TV interviewing immigrants camped out at Calais waiting to jump onto Lorries. Its easier to work illegally in the the UK than in France.

Employment legislation might well be poorly implemented in the UK compared to other European countries but that is not because the UK lacks ID cards. To employ someone legally requires information such as NI number and tax reference. If someone can manage to find work without providing that information then I’m fairly confident that they would be able to find work without an ID card.