OK, sitting at my office desk right now, I’m really hating my job in central London. For some time, I’ve been thinking that perhaps I should give running my own business a go, but a voice at the back of my head keeps telling me that it’s way too risky, so I hope that I can be convinced otherwise.

Since I’m really into mountain biking and skiing, I considered running a package holiday centered around guided mountain biking in the summer and guided off piste skiing in the winter.

Currently I don’t have any guiding qualifications for either and I certainly can’t afford to buy a holiday chalet outright, so would need to rent. I also have no experience of working in the tourist industry.

I’m still undecided on location, but probably somewhere in Europe.

Have any of you attempted to do something similar in the past? What are the main risks? Can you make a decent living out of it? Am I utterly crazy?!

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

I don’t want to sound patronising but everybody has these thoughts from time to time, especially if they reach a plateau in their working career and feel they aren’t making progress. When I worked in London I had a dream about setting up “Best of Britain” holidays where I would bring tourists in and give them specialised holidays in the UK; Roman remains, Victorian engineering, brewery or distillery visits, etc. I even had a family friend who was interested in co-investing with me. Then reality hit and I stayed employed and dissatisfied.

Following that I moved to Lancashire and my happiness quotient increased massively.

Seems like working as a guide would be the first thing? It’d give you some of the essential experience and give you a feel for what good and bad looks like… It’d also tell you more about whether you actually like the life.

(I’m assuming here that you don’t have a load of relevant experience that you’ve not mentioned, like leading local rides or working in event organisation or similiar)

What commitments do you have? If they are nil/low and you don’t have dependants then get on and do it – whats the worst that can happen? You end up skint but alive and glad you tried! My wife and I opted out about 6 years ago, backed up by some savings admittedly (they don’t last as long as you think they will….) but we’ve enjoyed life and are just about to make another throw of the dice, moving to France to try our hand at a business there – if it goes wrong we’ll be alive, skint and having to get proper jobs again.

Have you actually looked in to what it takes to become a ski guide?

And also in my experience the best guides tend to be those that are local, and know the area well. I doubt you can just rock up at a ski area and call yourself an ‘off piste guide’.

I think the easier option would be to buy a chalet and run holidays, leave the winter guiding to others. Still not an easy life mind….

what jerseychaz says.

If you are young free and single and don’t have a mortgage to pay, baby to feed then go for it. If not then weigh up everything very carefully. you wont make as much money as you think especially for the first few years after set up.

Why not, theres plenty already making it work.

I’ve organised events, led rides and organised trips to the Alps, it does sometimes cross my mind to make a living from it. Not sure the wife and kids who are dependant on a financial services salary would be too happy though.

You can have my dream job for free, given that I’ll never do it now, because I have kids:

Bicycle touring in Iceland is very popular, but there’s very little in terms of facilities outside of the city.

So open a bunkhouse/café/bike workshop/touring business in rural Iceland.

There.

Good luck!

I also have no experience of working in the tourist industry.

Fix this first. If you’ve got enough stashed away to be considering starting a business, you have enough to quit your job and spend a season or two doing it for someone else – be it guiding or doing something else.

Spending long lazy days riding your bike or skiing with mates is very different from providing a good service for paying customers.

No, don’t do it. You’ll be forced to deal with people and people are generally stupid.
I love bikes so when I saw a business opportunity combining bikes and making money, it thought it would be awesome. That was until ‘the public’ stunned me with just how moronic they are.

Don’t do it, stay sane but do not ever ever consider dealing with plebs. It’s far worse you you could ever imagine.

We have friends that run a similar business to what you propose. They have had years in the service industry working as chalet hosts, tutors, guides etc before setting up on their own.
The setup costs are quite high but I think they do alright now having grown the business from nothing.
They don’t do the MTB guiding side and really just have their place as a winter ski/boarding business and a summer B&B but offer the odd bit of guided hiking, route advice etc, transporting people etc.

Don’t underestimate how much hard work it is though. Very long hours to be up doing breakfasts etc and then guests will expect you to be out all night drinking, basically being a good host!

To put a further stick in your spokes, you need to be a full guide to take folks off piste skiing in the alps, and I think in the carpathians too, so either it’s 5 years min and a huge amount of money getting your high mountain guide ticket, or guiding in Scotland or Spanish hills, or ditching the skiing bit of the plan, which is where you’d make most of your money. As said above, we all think of doing it, but in reality it’s a huge amount of work for very little financial return….and I say that as a 7 year resident of Chamonix who’s worked for and is friends with folk who’ve done it. Still, it does work for some people, so do some more looking and don’t discount it just on the basis of a bunch of singletrackworlderers!

Do you speak any languages other than English?

What are the risks?

If you have some skills in your current sectuer and if in five years you can come back to where you are and get another job then the risks are minimal.

I had 2 years travelling in my early career zero impact on long term career. My co worker did 6 years of windsurfing and skiing in his 20s. No impact on his career

But the bar for ski guiding is very hi. There are UK guides but they have made a career to achieve this. I believe the bar is high for MTB guiding as well

So you will either have a career in hospitality or need to invest alot of time before you start in qualifications.

If you have to borrow money then obviously the risks go up

I think my advice is

Save some money (life on pasta for a year)

Travel a bit

Get some relevant work

Take stock

You may end up with a business. You may end up behind the same desk. But feel better for having explored the options

In my 20s I drove to Tanzania. In another trip I did 9 months in America, New Zealand, Ausrtalia, India and Nepal cycling climbing treking

I think it about it every day. It puts me in a better place mentally as i know i did but i also knew I didn’t want to keep doing it. It took a while to find work after the second trip and realised that I couldn’t keep giving up work and going away. So it was mortgage and kids instead.

I think this is the ideal way to suck the joy out of the things you love doing. As a bonus it will leave you penniless, disillusioned and exhausted. Go for it!
😆

Do it. Live your dreams. Life’s too short to do something you hate

Lots of people make this work and lots of people don’t. Of course there are risks but if you can afford for it to go pear-shaped, is it not better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all?

I do agree with the comments about experience though. I’ve met a few people on my travels who earn a living by doing what they love (snowboarding, sailing, mountain biking) and frankly they have been anything other than happy. As someone says above, it’s one thing riding all day every day with your mates, but quite another being host to strangers. Get the experience first to see if it’s something you would be happy to forge a business out of.

Realistically Steve who runs white room is probably the best person for you to ask about this.

Alternatively, new job in London, my company are recruiting (e-commerce, so depends what you hate about the job you have)?

If you don’t have a wife and kids to support (Or, better still, have a wife that’ll support you), then I would say you’ll get to the level you need to be at faster (or get it out of your system faster) the sooner you start. I can imagine the training would be expensive and may take time, particularly building up experience, but the sooner you start, the sooner you’ll get there. Live on oats and water. Sorted.

If you do have people to support, it gets a lot riskier. But if you have some savings, think about what you could realistically make work. Make yourself comfortable with the best and worst that could happen, and do it.

Ha, seems that most opinions sway towards not going for it. I probably shouldn’t be surprised.

I actually stayed at the White Room 3 summers ago and have met Steve. He’s been a bit of an inspiration for the idea tbh!

I can certainly see that investing in all the qualifications carries a lot of risk. From memory, becoming a high mountain guide takes something like 6 years of training. I think that becoming a mountain bike guide is a fair bit more straight forward.

I guess that a safer approach would be to contract out guiding to someone experienced at first and to focus on the hospitality element initially. Once that’s been refined, then consider doing qualifications.

To answer some of the questions, I’m not married, no kids, no mortgage, have some savings and speak Polish.

I hear boat trips across the English Channel pay very well at the minute.

May mean working nights though.

I’d have thought it isn’t so much of a “risk” as a virtual guarantee of poverty. But you might enjoy the lifestyle and think it’s worth it.

everybody fifeandy has these thoughts from time to time daily, especially if they since he’s reached a plateau in their his working career and feels they aren’t he isn’t making progress.

globalti seems to know my innermost secrets 😯

on and on – Member

No, don’t do it. You’ll be forced to deal with people and people are generally stupid.
I love bikes so when I saw a business opportunity combining bikes and making money, it thought it would be awesome. That was until ‘the public’ stunned me with just how moronic they are.

Don’t do it, stay sane but do not ever ever consider dealing with plebs. It’s far worse you you could ever imagine.

This is probably the soundest advice on here!

ahh OP so what are the MTB guiding regulations in Poland – have often thought it has great potential as an MTB destination for the Tatra’s

Some very good comments as usual above. I left my job in London 15 years ago to set something up. I used to sit by the window looking out dreaming…sooooo bored. Anyway, yes the public can be really quite stupid but they pay my salary and I keep my mouth shut. I can honestly say I have never wished for 1 minute that I had stayed in an office.

Actually the only thing I miss is the office banter, oh and the fixed pay cheque regardless of whether I did anything.

I ve kept in touch with some of my old workmates and they all left and set their own businesses up.

Good luck

you might enjoy the lifestyle and think it’s worth it.

In summer you’ll be able spend 18 hours a day cooking, cleaning, doing paperwork and handling complaints while everybody goes mountain biking and in the winter you’ll be able spend 18 hours a day cooking, cleaning, doing paperwork and handling complaints while everybody goes skiing. Live the dream!

I have considered the Tatras.

I tried Googling required mountain bike guiding qualifications in Poland, but couldn’t find anything. Perhaps the sport hasn’t matured enough in the country for these to exist.

As far as mountain biking is concerned, I read that the authorities are very protective of nature reserves, which may limit the possible scope of riding.

Another worry is that bureaucratically Poland is still in the dark ages.

Why not just get a job abroad first and get a taste of the life? Explorers Connect site has a job section. I’ve seen a few tempting jobs on there in the past…….

There is another option…

Use your current job/skills but move somewhere closer to the things you like doing. Before we were married, my wife worked in Geneva for 18 months, and I would have joined her if the credit crunch hadn’t hit.

Doesn’t have to be for ever, and much less risky…

EDIT – DOH! Beaten to it…

Why not consider Britain? (Without the skiing bit) Mudtrek seem pretty successful in the mountain bike chalet type holiday thing, and an mountain bike guiding qualification (e.g. MBLA2 + REC2) is reasonably easy to get.

Why not just work fewer hours in a nicer location doing something that pays the bills, and enjoy your leisure time more.

Get the experience in first, working for a reputable firm. Get yourself the right tickets; you’ll need British cycling level MTB 1, 2 & 3 plus advanced outdoor first aid for a start. Skiing is the tough one, as mentioned above. Getting to guide level takes many years and a huge amount of experience & £ if you want to lead off-piste for money.
If you’ve worked for others and still love it, then you’re going in with your eyes open and should then be able to spot yourself a gap in the market.

If you’ve some collateral, buy somewhere with an option for a giet. You’ll amazed at the income that can bring in.

Best thing I ever did. Not for everyone by a long shot. I love it, if I win the lottery I will get a Ferrari uplift van and do it for free. Also had people guide for me and not love it. Skint, knackered, starving and happy! Drop me a mail if I can give you any advice.

OP I have to say there is a lot of negativity on here. Bah humbug. All those other companies started somehow.

So my 2 pence … start looking into it. You’ve been on holiday (we’ve been skiing with Stevo twice) why not try some other companies this summer – double up your holiday with research. Ditto winter. Start looking into any qualifications required. As you speak Polish, how about Easten Europe – Slovakia, Slovenia ? As above you could look at working a winter and summer season first.

In terms of reality you have to understand you have a 2 month summer season and 3-4 month winter season to earn a years money assumjng you don’t do anything else. The qualifications can be tough to get and not cheap either. The job is about customer service not shredding trails/powder fields

Go and do your MTB courses, and go and be a guide. Even if it’s just 6-8 weeks, you’ll probably be able to tell if you get on with it, and whether it’ll be something you could see yourself doing long term.

but do it, don’t sit there thinking about it, get it gripped.

Mrs Mud of MudTrek Mountain Bike Breaks here to put a positive spin on this 😉 7 years ago we chucked it all in to go and live the dream. The dream turned out to be the toughest thing we’ve ever done but has been 1000% worth the effort. There have been so many pitfalls along the way that it’s turned into a real triumph over adversity story but, 5 years after starting MudTrek we are still here and still loving it. So here it is, our story, warts and all. I hope it provides some inspiration/guidance…

We have no kids and, with Jay being a keen mountain biker and my love of cooking and entertaining we moved to Carmarthenshire to create a business that encompassed our passions: mountain biking and hospitality. We were inspired by how catered ski chalets in Europe now adapted to offer a similar type of holiday for mountain bikers outside the ski season however there was nothing similar being offered anywhere in the UK and, more importantly South Wales, our chosen location. We considered France as we are both skiers but a) I didn’t want to live there permanently and b) every other chalet would be our direct competition and so Wales was where our destiny lay. Neither of us had experience in running holidays but Jay is ex-army (so is not easily phased) and my previous work life was in corporate hospitality and marketing. Even funnier is that we were both jobbing singers (don’t ask) when we jumped in feet first – that doesn’t half make you thick skinned I can tell you, and that has come in handy at times…

Our objectives were clear from the start – a ski-chalet style holiday works so well for skiers (and now mountain bikers) abroad so why not for mountain bikers here? Jay and his mtb buddies were typical of the type of guests we hoped to attract: the 30+ age group that enjoy the fast growing sport but are past the “camping & pot noodles” stage and would enjoy a touch of comfort/luxury. People are time-poor so providing an “all-in” package seemed obvious. Once we’d found the perfect location we set about providing guests with everything that they could possibly need to enjoy a MudTrek break: lovely accommodation, great home cooked food and lots of it, comfy beds, hot showers etc plus our USP “off piste” guiding. Riders love the trail centres but you don’t necessarily need a guide to ride them, plus they can be busy and predictable whereas the natural single track in Wales are empty and a real adventure. MudTrek would offer them this in the safe hands of fully qualified guides plus there was the bonus of being close to the Brechfa trails. In short, MudTrek would offer them the best of both worlds.

So, that’s the pretty version. First of all Jay had to get his qualifications and to know the local singletrack like the back of his hand – this took a while as we were new to the area. Meanwhile the house we bought came with a big barn that we wanted to make into 2 sets of interlinking accommodation for maximum flexibility. The most major hurdles were by far financial though – we already had debt, no savings and no one would lend to us (it was 2009/10). Once over that though the idea has proved to be very sound and business has been phenomenal. We are chocabloc with bookings, have well over 100 x 5 star TripAdvisor reviews, many repeat bookers and plenty of new business too.

We have had several people contact us asking if we would franchise MudTrek and at one point we were considering it but, after deliberation and 5 years experience, we’ve come to the conclusion that big is not always best and have decided that it would not be right for us. MudTrek is very “hands-on” and I believe the success of it is down to a number of factors that might not be able to be replicated. Therefore we have decided to keep our efforts here and keep our product and services very personal to our guests.

Whilst considering franchising and expanding we looked at a) finding couples just like us that have the same accommodation set up, drive & enthusiasm (the latter was no problem – the former was not) b) buying more property ourselves and putting staff in (expensive so we couldn’t be competitive price wise and c) renting property and putting staff in (ditto above). As a control freak I also paled at the thought of staff in general… So we’ve expanded as much as we can on site (we now have 3 cottages catering for groups of 2-14) and do pretty much everything ourselves bar some self employed cleaning/guiding help. Jay does the route reccying, guiding (with additional guides brought in for the larger groups) plus some techy stuff like making mtb movies for the guests and I do the catering, marketing, sales, admin, washing… (hmmm, who get’s the better deal here…?!). We socialise with all of our guests (as that’s part of the fun) and so both of us act as hosts. Let me tell you it is EXHAUSTING!!! This is defo a lifestyle business but, it’s still the best move we’ve ever made in our lives and we wouldn’t have it any other way. So it is possible, but it ain’t necessarily easy.

Starting MudTrek was a huge leap of faith and involved a big risk and massive change. Buying and converting property at great expense and then marketing a brand new business concept in a rural area with absolutely no budget has definitely been the most challenging time of our lives! But we are having a ball – and 99.9% of our guests are brilliant – we’ve have only had a few plebs! 😉

Good luck to you if you decide to do it. There’s a few articles here you might find of interest/help:-

THE GUARDIAN: http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2011/dec/02/mountain-biking-break-wales-mudtrek
PINKBIKE: http://www.pinkbike.com/news/The-Brechfa-Club.html
THE INDEPENDENT: http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/uk/the-10-best-british-adventure-breaks-8313023.html
HUFFINGTON POST: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sabi-phagura/get-stuck-in-mud-trek_b_2305184.html
TOTAL WOMENS CYCLING: http://totalwomenscycling.com/riding/mud-rocks-beagles-classic-welsh-mountain-biking-with-mudtreks-1711/#rTxBFOJWMPTFlwJz.97
MBWALES: http://www.mbwales.com/en/content/cms/Blog/Going_off_piste/Going_off_piste.aspx
DAILY MAIL: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-3134394/Ups-downs-wild-Wales-mountain-biking-escape-Carmarthenshire-wash-mud-chalet-comfort.html

Love Mrs Mud
http://www.mudtrek.com
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/MudTrek
TWITTER: https://twitter.com/mudtrek
INSTAGRAM: https://instagram.com/mudtrek_mtb/
YOU TUBE: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCItdrxsBfRDCeSUW3yLtrZA

Couple of thoughts
First take a read of bike guide qualifications
http://www.cyclewise.co.uk/2822/british-cycling-mtb-qualifications.aspx
Before going too far if it’s something your keen on maybe sign up for part 1.
Next read this
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/guided-peak-rides
It should sum up how a lot of people will value your time, skills and qualifications.

Whatever happend to Dizinaustria?