Having just read a story about the newly released killer of Damilol Taylor and seen pics of the 'boy' who went into prison and the muscular man he reappeared as, i struggle to understand why prisoners are given equipment for free which turns them into man mountains (as they have plenty of time to work out whereas the rest of us have to pay for the privilege and struggle to fit it in timewise due to work and other commitments) and then sets them back out onto the streets?

Surely being returned into society twice as strong as when you were put away is not a sensible approach as lots of the young offenders were often locked up for violent offences in the first place?

Even Jade Goody's ex came out beefed up. If they need gyms, what's wrong with cardio equipment and space to do push ups etc. Seems a waste of taxpayers money – that famous sheriff in the USA did away with all weights for exactly the same reason. Could it work here or would it affect the human rights of the poor old prisoners?

Thoughts please…….

I think the gym's should remain. But i also reckon that once the prisoners have been released, they should be forced to use their huge strength for the benefit of society – by doing jobs many others cant.

For example, a london bus rickshaw driver – This would also reduce carbon emissions etc

Charles Bronson was(is) in solitary confinement for much of his sentence and devised a regime of exercises using his own weight (think push ups, sit ups, squats etc) and even wrote a book on how to do the same workout.
He's built like a brick privvy and it takes about 4 guards to control him

So how do you suggest they channel all that energy which isn't being expended in the same way as if they were free?

Its a good outlet for excess testosterone

Elfinsaftey: Chaingangs. Repairing our f**d up road network.

Infact, I think all inmates whould be forced onto a strict training regime, so that when they are released they can work hard and fast

I appreciate that's it's a good release for pent up energy, but, using the example above, if Manson can build strength without heavy weights, why can't they all? And is running, rowing, cycling not a good release for energy as well – all without creating monstrous men?

Having just read a story about the newly released killer of Damilol Taylor… in the Daily Mail?

What would you suggest? Locking them up and throwing away the key?

And the young boy was Damilola

Elfinsaftey: Chaingangs. Repairing our f**d up road network.

Hmm, you are aware that ensuring security would cost more than would be saved, not to mention depriving decent law-abiding citizens of paid work?

Plus we have laws regarding Slave Labour.

People in prison are no doubt going to have a fair amount more pent-up anger and aggression than people outside, as a rule. So better to let them release that energy through physical activity, surely?

My own experience of strenuous activity is that it helps release hormones and chemicals that make me feel calm and relaxed. And large muscular physically powerful men are often quite confident and don't feel as threatened as others. Therefore they might not feel the need to lash out as much.

You get nutters of all types. Damilola's killer was a scrawny teenage boy. Peter Sutcliffe wasn't a particularly big feller either. I've dealt with aggressive kids that are smaller than me, and I'm a small bloke. Actually, I'm pretty aggressive and have at times been pretty vicious and violent, and I'm not a big muscle bound hunk! Actually I'm physically bigger and more powerful than I was when I was younger, and less aggressive.

This is interesting if you like watching muscular prisoners push heavy weights….

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-3349130914020546418

Law abiding my arse, most of the road workers take turn camping at the bottom Lee quarry and turning the place in to a sh*t tip before they get served eviction notices to make way for the next group.

And the cost of security? There are your paying jobs for decent members of society.
You see problems, i see solutions!

And the cost of security? There are your paying jobs for decent members of society.
You see problems, I see solutions!

Would probably mean having to hire private security firms, then there's the problem of ensuring public safety, insurance, etc.

You see 'solutions', I see ill thought-out unworkable crack pot fantasies… 😉

Infact, I think all inmates whould be forced onto a strict training regime, so that when they are released they can work hard and fast

So they can steal your car & mug your nan even quicker? 😉

had a long chat last night with a colleague about prisons and prisoners. Despite visiting Prisons fairly regularly i've never seen an Xbox in a cell, despite what the daily mail say! Anyway, the thing with gyms…

If prisoners are incarcerated to punish them, then indeed, no gym, no TV, no nothing would be good punishment. However, given that the purpose of our prison service is reformation and rehabilitation, there is some benefit to such things. I'll paint a nice Liberal/wet left image…

man A gets in fight outside pub at 18, punches another man who falls, hitting his head and dies. Man A goes to prison for, say 2 years. 2 years later he is released, unemployable, confused and angry at the world. He has not developed as an adult and is still effectively 18. His friends have all moved on, and he has been left behind. He is not an effective member of society and cannot contribute effectively.

Man B commits the same crime and received the same sentence. In prison he studied, say wood work. He went to the gym a lot. He learnt about discipline and routine. Comes out of prison with a skill that increases his chance of getting employed and a greater understanding about looking after himself and self respect.

I appreciate this is a massively idealistic image, but the idea I'm putting across is, the more you punish prisoners, the more society is likely to suffer in the long term. Incarceration is the punishment part, forget the human rights mumbo jumbo, and consider the idea of developing useful, functioning adults.

Hang on meehaja, that sounds like an intelligent, well thought-out, rational argument.

We can't have that on here now can we?

Now go and stand in the corner and have a think about what you've done.

I think they should be banned, I've seen Oz, it's wall to wall murders in there.

Would probably mean having to hire private security firms, then there's the problem of ensuring public safety, insurance, etc

Even more gainful employment opportunities! Group 4 expands to fulfil the demand for guards, transportation and logistic arm is reformed or expands to get them from the cells to the project, insurance companies expand and diversify to provide public liability cover….

Non of your pitfalls are insurmountable

what job is it that employs big over muscled blokes with violent pasts?

private security firms

I've seen Oz, it's wall to wall murders in there.

Shankings a speciality.

Charles Bronson was(is) in solitary confinement for much of his sentence and devised a regime of exercises using his own weight (think push ups, sit ups, squats etc) and even wrote a book on how to do the same workout.

That's todays' impulse buy.

what job is it that employs big over muscled blokes with violent pasts?

private security firms

There ya go! A ready supply of workers if they show aptitude when they get out!
This is win win!

Even more gainful employment opportunities! Group 4 expands to fulfil the demand for guards, transportation and logistic arm is reformed or expands to get them from the cells to the project, insurance companies expand and diversify to provide public liability cover….

Non of your pitfalls are insurmountable

With business acumen like this, how on Earth is the UK in recession? 😀

Why thank you. Remember to put your X in the box marked U31 at the next election…

Jesus Wept.

Despite the OP's apparent mental image of prisons being a collection of muscle-bound, greased-up bodybuilding potential boyband members, the sad truth is that with 90% of prisoners suffering from a mental illness and 70% suffering from multiple mental illnesses, prisons house some of the sickest people in the UK population. The idea that chipping away at the meagre facilities for maintaing physical health is going to improve things is just rank stupidity a.k.a. standard fare for the Daily Mail.

http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/information/mental-health-overview/statistics/

Well maybe i should clarify then.

I did say "what's wrong with cardio equipment and space to do push ups etc" so maybe i'll refine it to 'Should prisons do away with heavy free weights etc'.

Exercise should be available for all but why do prisoners need to bulk up massively? I also mentioned running, rowing and cycling (static, obviously). I know many prisoners don't weightlift but i just don't think it should be an option for any of them at the taxpayers expense, especially if they are inside for violence related offences. I do push ups every day – to the best of my knowledge they cost nothing but still build strength?

Oh, and i don't buy (or read) the Daily Mail………

So how do you suggest they channel all that energy which isn't being expended in the same way as if they were free?

deep fried food, like crisps and chips. Then they'd have a lot less energy that would need to be expended.
And they wouldn't be able to run away when the cops are chasing them when they revert to their criminal ways when they get out.
And the rest of us could laugh and point at them, knowing them as the unreformed chubby crims that they are.
And they'd die sooner anyway so be less of a drain on benefits/free up an extra bed in HM Hostels.

Vote for me.

Gyms should be banned full stop. Ghastly, soul-destroying places, a bit like prisons. Oh, hang on…

Bad people trying to improve and better themselves? good for them.

Jamie – Member

"Shankings a speciality."

Whatever turns you on…

Whatever turns you on…

That doesn't even make sense.

Would probably mean having to hire private security firms, then there's the problem of ensuring public safety, insurance, etc.

Surely it just needs a couple of shotgun toting, tabacco chewin' deputies on horseback?

90% of prisoners suffering from a mental illness

That seems unlikely – or at least using a very wide definition of mental illness. Were it really the case there'd be a lot more suicides than there really are, a lot more stabbings etc.

Cannae beat the bold Hutchy

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Mothers-grief-as-sons-killers.2417475.jp

went in like this

Now looks like this 😯

The yanks have it right. Get banged up three times and we do you. Boil them down for glue or burn them to make electric.

Yes, ban the gyms make them run to loose the energy and better yet feed them the bare minimum so they've got **** all energy to loose, make the tv's just show 24hr Teletubbies and the radios play nothing but Sarah Kennedy going on about her cats. Uniforms should be sandals, pink boiler suits and all inmates to have their heads shaven and all religion/politics banned and all cells to be unheated have nothing but a bed, blanket and a toilet.

They are their to be punished.

Weird server error led to double post; I only posted it the once.

Gyms should be banned full stop. Ghastly, soul-destroying places, a bit like prisons. Oh, hang on…

You sound somewhat bitter….

The closest I have ever come to being in prison is being in police custody for 36 hours. Seemed like much, much longer. What really discourages me from a life of crime, aside from the nastiness of it, is being banged up and unable to escape. I doubt hardly anyone on here actually understands this though, which is why I wont take some of the more 'conservative' opinions seriously. Be interested to hear from anyone who's actually done time though.

I know a few people who've been inside. Mostly really decent, ordinary individuals now. None have any particular desire to be re-incarcerated, and I'd imagine moderate their behaviour and activities accordingly. I suspect imprisonment acts as quite an effective deterrent to most.

and the radios play nothing but Sarah Kennedy going on about her cats

You want to create a whole new bunch of psycho serial killers?? 😯

mogrim – Member

90% of prisoners suffering from a mental illness

That seems unlikely – or at least using a very wide definition of mental illness. Were it really the case there'd be a lot more suicides than there really are, a lot more stabbings etc.

IIRC we employ people and a security regime to prevent the incarcerated from having weapons like knifes 🙄
He also gave a link fo rhis claim which if you had followed also had this underneath the prevalence rates

The suicide rate in prisons is almost 15 times higher than in the general population. In 2002 the rate was 143 per 100,0001 compared to 9 per 100,000 in the general population.2

1 The National Service Framework For Mental Health: Five

Years On, Department of Health (2004)

2 Samaritans (2004) Information Resource Pack (2004

Is 15 times higher enough for you?

Nice Post Konabunny..silly reply mogrim