Same height and too far to the rear can over extend the ITB

That’s a different saddle position though isn’t it? It’s only because you’re taking horizontal as a datum that you’re thinking about it the way you do. What happens if you took your position and rotated it 90 (ish) degrees eg like riding a recumbent? KOPS is meaningless in itself, it’s just an approximation of what most people find comfortable or that works.

My point is that adjusting your body position also affects how your muscles in your legs work so having bikes with different body positions will affect the ‘ideal’ position for your legs. All my bikes have slightly different saddle heights by design.

grahamg, well said that man.

Turns out I have big flexibility issues plus a short torso…short forearms…

That’s a different saddle position though isn’t it?

Yes, my point was really that just going by saddle position on the rails from bike to bike can lead you to quite different positions for a given saddle height.

graham – where’s the heresy in a 100mm stem? 😉

Yes, well, obviously so 🙂 As I said, people like to believe that a simple formula (x frame, Y top tube) will give the right position which is approximately right which in itself may well be fine for most.

Thanks Graham.

Not that I’d want to undo everyone’s good work but I remembered that yesterday the guy lost his spirit level and we couldn’t work out whether the saddle was level or pointed down.

Anyway, I just went to the shed… and remembered I was slipping forward on the way home last night. So, a quick tweek, saddle is level a few minutes ride and guess what, the bar is now in line with the stem on the hoods…. 😀

Whats more I did some tape measureing against my winter bike (a M/L Defy). Oddly without touching it the Defy saddle height and fore/aft is within MM of the altered bike, but with its shorter TT, longer (100mm) stem and deeper hoods to stem is 50mm longer from tip of seat to hoods. Interestingly though, the top of the stem is 30mm high off the floor ‘cuase of the HT height and the spacers under the stem.

As someone said up there – it’d be silly to transfer the setup across from the other bike…

80mm is really short. You sure you’re sitting right? Try and copy Cancellera/Boonens/Similar postion. Stick your arse out, twist your pelvis forward and you should be able to get really long and low. Some stretches might help. As will a longer and lower stem. It’s obvious to see the difference between the way a pro and some amateurs sit on a bike when you look at them. Currently repping about a 16cm saddle/bar drop with a 140mm stem, so it does work.

Saying that, could depend on your pedalling style. I don’t drop my heels lots, you look at someone like Froome who drops his heels loads, and his position on the bike is **** weird. Sat really up right, and he doesnt seem to use much saddle set back (unlike cancellera)

Two things about the 80mm. First the highly scientific one, I don’t see any 80’s at races. And two, from a personal view a short stem that doesn’t hang over the front is a bitch on real steep climbs, you tend to end up with your hands behind/under your shoulders.

Again on a personal side I’m 5’8″, my race bike started with a 110, then a 120 and finally a 130. That also coincided with weight loss, higher flexibility and getting faster.
My cross race bike and trainer are both 55 C-C with 120 stems.

Phillipe Gilberts bike which is totally wrong for a mere mortal, he is another guy who likes to ride a smaller frame(as its stiffer)then runs a long seatpost and stem to make it fit.

Within certain boundaries any bike can be made to fit any rider, whether it will ride nicely is another mattter.

oldgit – Member
….a short stem that doesn’t hang over the front is a bitch on real steep climbs…

…which are my nemesis. I’m starting to think I’d stick the 100mm back on after this thread TBH.

At least I got my saddle height fore/aft and 14 degree foot variation sorted for my cash. 🙁

Although I suppose I should try the shorter stem for a long ride and see if my sticking neck/shoulder issue arises or is fixed.

Frame Job

Not sure of your point oldgit?

I’ve ridden both bikes this week. The adjusted (short stem) was right at the saddle/cranks the minute I rode off. I didn’t feel any “gaps” in the pedal stroke and concluded that the efficiency at the pedals had improved. However, I was perturbed at seeing the front hub over the bars. The ride however was comfortable, the only issue I felt “odd” about was when in the drops. I couldn’t be comfortable with my hands on the curve of the bars behind the brakes – they had to be at the end on the flats of the bar near the end. Although on the ride I felt consistent and powerful I only averaged 26.6kmph, with a wind of 24kmph 50% of the ride into it (unfortunately the fast/down part)

Today I rode the other more upright bike with only the saddle height altered to match the other. The mid-saddle to hoods measurement is only 10mm more than the other. Previously this bike felt shorter and than the other – now it felt stretched. I appreciate I should probably push the saddle forward but still.

More confused about “what it right” than ever now.

Just bunging it up as it appeared after this post, no point to make.

If you read my post up there, it explains what you need to do. Quite easy to see by looking at this pic of cancellera.

Kryton, try not to over think it.

Sounds like you are happy with position except ‘bars. FWIW I spend **** all time in that position, tho I don’t race. Try different bars?

I was fine on the curve if the drops until everything changed.

Kryton, try not to over think it.

A million times this.

Fwiw I thought about it on my Allez today, for the first time ever, and the front hub is a good way in front of the bars. Are we suggesting that means bike is too short or too long? If anything I’d go down a size in frame, as I run it with no cover on the top headset cup in an effort to get a sensible front end height.

I was fine on the curve if the drops until everything changed.

Mark(with Tippex or similar)the bars/stem in the existing position then rotate them a couple of degrees and try riding them in the new position and see if that helps.

Failing that you may just need more time to get used to the new positioning as your body is remembering the previous set up and sensing its not the same.

Easy way to sort
build bike put on which ever stem u have in your hand go for a ride…
Feels to long fit a shorter stem
Feels to short fit a longer stem

Seat height heel on pedel at bottom of stroke move to cleat in same position,should be slight bend in leg tighten seat post and go for a ride
Knee over stretching or rocking on seat- lower seat
Pain in knee from to much bend in leg – raise seat
Got base setting work from there in small increments
A computer cannot tell if u have bad flexibility/painful possitions or short body parts

A computer cannot tell if u have bad flexibility/painful possitions or short body parts

To be fair, it should.

A road bike shouldn’t be comfy on the drops imo. 90% of your riding is done on the hoods or tops. The drops are only used in situations where everything hurts so much you don’t notice any pain from being on the drops or descending where good low balance on the bike is important.

I can’t agree with that fully. You do need to be comfortable in the drops, thinking long stints into a headwind. Racing if you race, comfort is all part of being efficient.

So….. Having been told I also need to go from 44cm to 42cm bars, this will counter some of the leverage and reduce any nervousness.

On another note, I’ve ridden the 100mm stemmed giant again – definately feels long. Maybe 90mm is the answer…

Just do what I said, or at least try it

Having been told I also need to go from 44cm to 42cm bars

keep that Horner cowhorn look!

my 56cm allez was too long for me, I am 5’10” with 32″ legs and average torso / arm length

I used a 75mm stem after having a Body Geometry bike fit which addressed a number of issues I was having with bike fit, however the front wheel felt a little light when climbing, and especially when descending

I have had a number of shoulder injuries over the years and don’t appreciate feeling like I am stretched on a torture rack, so getting a good fit is very important to me.

when I got my Tarmac I dropped to 54cm frame and found a usable position with a 90mm stem flipped “up” (have tried different 75/80/90/100mm stems). The shorter stems gave a nice reach but I caught my shorts when getting off the saddle and the front wheel was very sketchy going fast.

but even with 90mm its still not perfect as I feel ‘just’ a touch too stretched out unless riding really quick and leaning forwards into the bike. I am not a racer but like riding long distances at a steady pace, and going up hills

my next bike will be a 54cm roubaix SL4; I have already test ridden it and played with my setup and the small increase in head tube length is perfect for the reach compared to my Tarmac whilst maintaining a 90mm or 100mm stem for handling.

Although I suppose I should try the shorter stem for a long ride and see if my sticking neck/shoulder issue arises or is fixed.

You said it yourself! You paid good money for expert advice – believe it rather than the bunch of numpties on here.

davidtaylforth – Member
Just do what I said, or at least try it

.

I did, and although I couldn’t hold it for long you’d be right, I’d need a 140mm stem just to be able to rest my forearms on the hoods.

It should be reminded that I need straitening because I arch my back and one shoulder is half robot. The cyclefit for didn’t rule out an increase in stem should I increase my flexibility. As my preference is for sportive distance which is what I stated at the time, I believe that’s why I’ve been setup this way.

I might have an evening at a cyclopark tomorrow. They’ll be no harm in taking both stems and doing a few direct comparison laps.

I did, and although I couldn’t hold it for long you’d be right, I’d need a 140mm stem just to be able to rest my forearms on the hoods.

Gullad. If you’re racing I’d have thought it’d be worth seeing if you can adapt to this position?

Moving your saddle back a bit might help you maintain in, just needs a bit of getting used to.

They’ll be no harm in taking both stems and doing a few direct comparison laps.

Nah.

If you want to get used to a longer stem, put it on and commit to riding with it for a few hundred miles or a month or two. Messing about with it for 10 minutes will not help at all.

Yuo have disposable income money to waste, go to another bike fitter with your bike set up the way the last lot said was ” perfect “
Be interesting to see what they say