Shimano mtb 10 speed systems are not compatible with any other ten speed systems. The chain is wider, the cassettes are wider (no spacer needed), the levers pull at different increments to shimano road and other 10 speed levers, and the mechs/chainrings are designed for this wider 10 speed chain.

So if you buy into it, not only are you loosing the low 22T and high 44T rings of most 9 speed systems in favour of a higher 24T and a lower 42, you are also throwing yourself at the mercy of a Shimano only option. It’s worth noting that recently both SRAM and Shimano are not doing very well with regards to comprehensive UK stock levels. For at least a month there were no 10 speed Sram road cassettes in the uk, for at least two months there were no avid juicy rebuild kits, 9 speed shimano mtb cassettes were sparse and last week there were no xt or slx hydraulic brake sets to be had.

Shimano are giving us the Compatibility Blues folks.

Not sure I want to play.

The above was brought to you by virtue of a duff steer some several months ago by an unknown Madison techy who obviously hadn’t had the briefing at that time. So if you want to put an mtb mech and cassette on your road bike to do the Fred Whitton or similar, you need to stick with 9 speed.

Strange, I’m running SRAM XX shifters, cranks and front mech, SRAM X0 rear mech and a shimano XT cassette with a SRAM 10 speed chain and all appears fine. Rode the Afan Monster with no problems and has been fine for the 100-150 miles since.

Shimano are giving us the Compatibility Blues folks.

Of course they are – its a deliberate part of the business model. Same as making stuff non repairable / not selling spares

Shimano are giving us the Compatibility Blues folks.

It’s not like they haven’t done that before.
9 speed is fine for me thanks.

If true it’s disappointing as I was hoping that eventually I could build a light tourer with a compact chainset, wide ration 10 speed MTB cassette/SLX?XT rear mech and 105 shifters.

If so for me it would mean mixing up SRAM Apex and higher group such as Rival to get the gear spread I’m looking for.

But having been a victim of Shimano changing things year on year before I am hardly surprised.

Shock horror that it wont fit with old stuff? The only bit that works between 8 speed and 9 speed are the cables and the rear mech FFS, all thats not compatible this time compared to the last round is the rear mechs!

Do you go out an buy a new car then thow a hissy fit when the tyres off your old one dont fit?

People have been wingeing for years that shimano SIS doesnt pull enough cable so is adversely affected by mud, now that they’ve gone back to stronger springs with the shadow mechs and more cable pull with 10speed everyones complaining, grow up!

At least they’ve learnt from the dura-ace isues form years ago and made XTR/XT/SLX interchangeable.

TJ – Sorry to blow (part of) your conspiracy theory but the shimano spare parts catalogue is huge and most decent LBS should be able to get hold of whatever spares you need.

I think TJ is correct in respect of hydro brake spares.

I’m a smug 8 speed user. 😀 Oh no, I can’t buy any shifters 🙁

I can’t get hold of decent 7 speed stuff anymore and have to buy used so the spares catalogue is not that huge.It would cost me a fortune to change everything on my crosser especially when I don’t need more gears or another bike with a poor external bottom bracket.

Seals for hydro brakes -and pistons. Spares for mechs and shifters. Hub spares – freehubs that are not servicable. Chainirings that are 104 bcd but the tabs are different to make things incompatable.

Shimano are very good at what they do – stuff that works at a good price but its not intended to be repairable and incompatibilities are deliberately used to lock you in to their systems.

I preferred cycling in the 80s pre indexing when you could pick the bits you liked from any manufacturer to build your bike.

Why can’t you buy 4 quids worth of bearings and replacement top hats for external bbs they only last weeks before they die and are a backward step?

TJ, as we’ve discussed before, the reason that you can’t get spares for Shimano Hydros is that they never/rarely fail. If you were to do a quick poll of the LBS workers in STW and ask them to rank hydraulic brake systems in terms of reliability…….

Are you aware billyboy that the cassettes come with 36t and therefore the 24t granny makes sense. You aren’t really losing any hill climbing ability.

Got SRAM x7 fitted this week to me mojo. The 24/36 is so spinny it’s jard to stay in a straight line. Might find a wall tomorrow and see if i can get up it.

TandemJeremy – Member

“Chainirings that are 104 bcd but the tabs are different to make things incompatable.”

Such as? (and what prevents you from adapting them?)

druidh – thats not why you can’t get spares.

There is someone who could do with spare seals on a post on here right now.

Northwind – I have seen this one. Chainrings are 104 bcd but the diameter of the tabs varies. You have to grind them down to fit.

TandemJeremy – Member
druidh – thats not why you can’t get spares.

But who would stock spares that you only need once in a lifetime? It just doesn’t make economic sense.

especially when you have 25 different types of seal per model year! And different each year.

its a philosophical difference. Some manufacturers / countries / cultures like a repairable / rebuildeable / cross compatible engineering, for others cheapness is the key.

Hopefully Madison would as they are the importer

Chainrings are 104 bcd but the diameter of the tabs varies. You have to grind them down to fit.

+1

I bought a Deore inner ring for an XT chainset and had to file the tabs down for it to fit. Clearly it was designed for non-Hollowtech BBs and therefore they didn’t/wouldn’t consider it fitting around a Hollowtech cup

On the other hand, a guide I have ridden with in Spain has seen a lot of brake systems on a lot of bikes and he does now swear by Shimano brakes

Stilltortoise, so you have 2 answers there, either buy the one for a HT chainset (I have Deore on my XTR cranks and they fit perfectly) or file them down slightly to fit. The odd thing about your complaint, TJ, is that the same’s true of most crank manufacturers but it’s Shimano you have a beef with for it apparently.

“especially when you have 25 different types of seal per model year! And different each year.”

Levers and older models I can’t speak for but the caliper seals are the same across the range now, my XT caliper took a 2008-spec XTR seal and piston no bother and the same would apply the other way round. Shimano have pretty decent standardisation here.

well although the new xt 32t rings cant be fitted to the old.. the old can be fitted to the new.

seals ive never had to replace. ive never even had to clean up a set of shimano pistons. they really are so much better than some of the other big names out there.

My comments weren’t a complaint, just an experience shared from someone bored whilst watching his kiddies eat their lunch soooooo slowly. In my case it was actually the bike shop that provided the wrong inner ring, not my purchasing error. I’m actually a big fan of the big S.

My beef is with any manufacturer who deliberately makes incompatibilities or that does not stock spares. I want to buy something and then know I can get spares and repair it.

Its about manufacturing philosophy. I don’t like unrepairable modules and non standard parts.

i have 3 shimano brakes that need about 5 quids worth of seals

puts me off shimano brakes for ever – hope brakes – i know i can get spairs till they go bust and even then ill probably get them else where as more often than not they are standard componants !

shimano – turning bike shop mechanics into technicians – just bolting on new parts little skill involved. Much like many(not all) car technicians(nee mechanics) these days !

Fair enough but you’re talking about basically the entire bike industry there. Even Hope have incompatabilities, though at least they have excellent parts availability.

But Shimano are really not bad for the incompatabilities, I think if you look at them with a less jaundiced eye you’ll see this is true. All the HT2 cranks are completely compatible from bolts to bottom brackets to chainrings frinstance. Can’t speak for the non-range ones as I’ve no recent experience but some are definately compatible. All the calipers and levers from Deore up to 2011 XTR are completely interchangable as are the recent brake pads. (Saint may not be). Where there’s differences there’s generally a genuine reason, frinstance the SLX and XT lever design is different because they have different functions, though they’re still compatible. This makes them one of the better companies out there for interchangability IMO.

And spares, well, I don’t agree with people who say Shimano don’t need spares, to me caliper seals and pistons are a consumable and should be available to buy… But then, if you do get a sticky piston as I did, you can buy one of the inexpensive calipers for £30, get 2 sets of pistons and seals and also a set of pads worth £14, which isn’t brilliant value but it’s not terrible either, compared with £7 for a single set of piston and seal for Hope.

And then of course you have to factor in initial cost, since you could buy a complete set of SLX brakes for the price of one end of Hope Tech X2, for pretty comparable performance. You’d need to go through a lot of spares to make Shimano stop being good value there.

“trail_rat – Member

i have 3 shimano brakes that need about 5 quids worth of seals”

Which brakes is it? Unless they’re over several years you could probably get them back into action with minimal effort/cost.

freehubs that are not servicable.

Yes, but an XT freehub is cheeper than 2 6001 bearigns from SKF to do a hope freehub……………..

And 2-3 generation old shimano callipers are dirt cheep on CRC, epople often post links to them appearing cheeper thana new set of pads, which are included!

I wont be going 10 speed, but thats just because I seem to have harvested enough 9speed cassettes and chains to see me though untill 11speed comes allong 🙂

2 1st gen 2 pot XT brakes

1 1st gen 2 pot saint

i investigated getting new seals from seal/bearing supplier and they couldnt get me anything with the little lip on the front as per shimano piston seals.

Is it just one seal in each of the XTs? I know nothing about Saint unfortunately but the XTs sound like an easy fix to me.

TandemJeremy – Member
especially when you have 25 different types of seal per model year! And different each year.

Piston sizes have changed few times. This sort of post make you look daft.

its both seals in the XT – the pistons in both , the saints are the same brake but different colour

XTs were cooked/melted by riding down ben nevis on the north face path
the saint was just crap

Fair play then, that’d cost a bit to put back in service unless you can find a caliper cheap. Which you might be able to do to be fair

All the calipers and levers from Deore up to 2011 XTR are completely interchangable

2011 XTR use a smaller diameter hose for firmer feel…

The yoke on my chariot broke and the Norman one I bought doesn’t fit. Bloody Saxons.

“2011 XTR use a smaller diameter hose for firmer feel…”

And the pistons may be different too, that’s why I mentioned XTR isn’t compatible.

Re using big MTB cassettes for the likes of Fred WHitton – the 3 peaks cyclocross forum is a good site for these compatibility issues. You can use a 10 speed Shimano MTB cassette, with 9 speed midcage SHimano MTB rear derailleur such as SLX or XT, and 10 speed Shimano STI shifters such as 105. The 9 speed derailleur is dumb and doesnt mind shifting an extra gear, the important thing is that it relies on the same pull length of wire that the STI shifters use. The new 10-speed MTB derailleurs will not shift with road style STI flightdeck shifters. Cut and paste below…
http://www.3peakscyclocross.org.uk/forum.htm
and go to equipment discussion, then 10speed XT with 105 Shifters