Currently having a loft conversion done, nearly there, in fact as of last Weds it was finished. As part of the job the plumber from the building company fitted the toilet pan/cistern and flooring, both of which we supplied.

Over the weekend, whilst starting the decorating, noticed a bead of water around the bottom of the pan on the floor. On closer inspection looks like water has been weeping from either the siphon seal or the bolts connecting the cistern to the pan. Volumes aren’t great, but enough to cause the (bathroom rated) laminate floor to swell at the joint lines around the pan as they have been constantly “fed” water over the last (I guess) 5 days or so.

The guy who in stalled it has just been back, couldn’t find any drips (well, no, I drained the cistern to stop it leaking any more!), and initially couldn’t find anything wrong. Also said the swelling of the floor ‘should’ go down once it dried out and just wanted to put it all back together. Can’t say I’m happy about this and, unless he can gaurentee the floor will go back flat, want the floor taken up and the swollen boards replaced (we have enough spare boards/underlay left – total area ~7m^2).

He’s now had a bit more of a poke and says he ‘thinks’ the cistern is cracked at one of the cistern-to-pan bolts – I’ve not spoken to him again yet, but is the following being unreasonable*

a) with regards to the cistern, he needs sort it out, even though we supplied it. If it’s cracked, the implication is it is most likely to have happen during fitting…. or if it was obviously supplied cracked, he should have said something before putting it all together (they’ve been pretty hot on pointing out defects on other stuff we’ve supplied, which I’ve appreciated).

b) is the floor likely to dry out and go back flat again? I’m a little dubious and, call me cynical, but if I was in his position, I wouldn’t want to be taking up and relaying the floor so would probably say that as well 😉

*Feeling fairly thermo-nuclear about the whole thing at the moment, but they have been REALLY good in ever other respect, so am trying to be calm/reasonable for the moment 😉

Oh and Gawd bless yourINRATS filter and have got this far….!

Not unusual for the odd minor snag after a bathroom fit such as a small leak as things bed in. Put a fan blowing on the floor to help dry it out.

for b) I can’t see it going flat again

good luck with a)

first things first. **** plumbers. 🙄 law unto themselves.
close coupled toilet? ie the cistern sits atop the pan?
more likely that the doughnut is leaking if so, i’d have thought. this seals the cistern to the pan. the bolts used to attach the cistern to the pan have ptfe/a.n.other type of plastic washer that just wants snugging up. they don’t warrant doing too tight and usually have wingnuts or similar IME. i’d imagine it unlikely he’s broken it.
if the cistern is genuinely cracked then i’m afraid you’ll have to sort it if you supplied it. bit like paying an LBS to build your bike with parts you’ve supplied. you got all the discount on the bits, if something is wrong with them, there’s no margin in the sale to pay for them to go to the hassle of sorting it.
all IMO, and you know what they say about opinions…
😉
good luck

We had something similar after a leak and our laminate floor did go back to pre swell/movement.

I’d get manufacturer to replace toilet and get the chap to fit FOC.

Snagging – yes, expected and accepted. However, there was more swearing in the air when I discovered this than for the rest of the snag list put together 😉

dooosuk – that’s kind of my feeling on both counts…..

I’d get manufacturer to replace toilet and get the chap to fit FOC

Would be happy with this, but I think I need a compelling case that it is a genuine fault and not brain-fart during fitting. This was literally the last thing they did before waving bye-bye.

what del said. If the pan and cistern arent quite bang on and the installer is relying on the fitting bolts to crush the doughnut into submissions and a seal it might not do it’s job. remove cistern, check the doughnut location, maybe even add a bead of silicone to help it? Check the cistern for damage and refit.

Pan is back-to-wall style, so access to all the fitting is nigh-on impossible once the connections are made and it’s been shuffled into position and screwed to wall and floor. Due another conversation later so we’ll see what the mood (both ways) is….

I give you 50/50 on the laminate.

Buy another doughtnut, they’re not pricey. Existing one might be damaged.
Buy a tube of silicone sealant.

Undo feed to cistern, undo doughnut bolts, refit it yourself.

Might be worth avoiding the act of screwing the cistern to the wall for the time being – maybe it is these fixings that drag the doughnut out of line enough to cause a leak.

TBH I’d chalk it up to experience.

Blimey – so many reasonable responses in one place in here….. you all feeling all right 😉

Might be worth avoiding the act of screwing the cistern to the wall for the time being – maybe it is these fixings that drag the doughnut out of line enough to cause a leak

That’s a damn fine point MrFinger – the fact I could look between the front edge fo the pan and the underside fo the cistern could mean either the ceramic was a little wavey or the top screws were pulling the cistern back onto the wall….. could be either I guess, but worth checking.

Plumber in the house.. So you supplied the gear..he assembled.. Big failing on his and your part. His for assembling something he had no provencefor and yours for trying to save a buck..reason for leak most likely the do nut.. The fixing bolts rarely hold the cistern to the pan today they normally pul on a steel plate that is fixed to the bottom of the siphon. Don’t use silicon the thing is supposed to be assembled dry and if done correctly with the right donut ( there are three main types) then it’ll be drier than Arizona there is after all virtually zero water pressure a this point even when the loo is flushed. If it were moi. I d check my work and say if not at fault that it’s all yours to put right..cracked cisterns or whatever.. Cheap gets what you pay for..as for the floor.. You selected the flooring type for the bathroom if incorrect/unsuitable that’s not his issue

What he said ^^^^^.

Thanks totalshell, totally agree.

^^^ interesting if the installer cracked the cistern through carelessness while installing it then that and any consequential damage is his fault.

Sounds like the flooring IS bathroom suitable (although wouldn’t dream of any laminate in any bathroom of mine).

For a more familiar context if the bike shop agrees to fit the fork you bought on line and accidentally whacks the leg with a hammer while fitting the star nut that is their fault not yours.

By contrast faulty bog before install is down to op although I would hope a competent plumber would have spotted a cracked cistern before they put it in.

The answer is of course to discuss like adults and sort out amicably.

Is there a crack? Drain it and check,then apportion blame. Was the cistern supplied assembled? Did you think to unpack and fully inspect before passing the goods to the plumber? If it is cracked it will be pretty
obvious if it was down to manufacture or fitter.Good luck with getting it sorted out, really frustrating.
A lot of the cheaper “bog in a box” efforts are cast so pzzed that they dont play nice when you try to make them level up, I have had them where the seat leant one way and the top of the cistern went the other,not a good look!

UPDATE: Appreciate all the comments regarding me supplying/them fitting etc, but the analogy garage-dweller makes is the correct one – if it was supplied faulty, then that is my look-out….. if it was damage during fitting, well that’s a different can of worms.

Anyway, after a fairly frank exchange of views it appears the ‘probably cracked’ line was a crock of **** – there was no crack. After this, the project manager came round and between him and the plumber they reassembled the toilet again, and it has now been been leak free for 12 hours – make any inference from that series of events that you will 😉

In light of the above (BTW – everyone agrees floor is suitable. I gave them sample to inspect and approve before buying it…) – the deal is that it will be left to dry for a week – if it’s still swollen then they will refit the floor FOC, replacing the swollen boards with the spares that are left over.

About as good a result as cloud be expected…..

The words “project manager” strike fear into my heart when coupled with such things as loft conversion company.

Doughnuts supplied with a lot of close-fitted cisterns can be a bit rubbish, in my limited experience. Last time around I bought a new, better quality one (a few quid) and swapped it out without even bothering to try the supplied one. Worked first time for a change.

wrightyson – he is a good guy actually and managed to bring some sanity to both sides of the conversation yesterday when it was perhaps spiraling towards pistols-at-dawn. I don’t mind problems – they are inevitable – it’s how they are dealt with that i’m interested in. The completely dismissive attitude by the plumber about the leak – followed by a bare-faced-lie about the crack to the cistern – turned out to be the bigger issue here….

The words “project manager” strike fear into my heart when coupled with such things as loft conversion company.

I don’t get this tbh. A good project manager will see a job through far more smoothly than either a) a builder who thinks he or she can project manage or b) an architect who thinks he or she can project manage.

Not saying either of the above exist, but they’re a rare breed if they do.

In some cases project managers are fully justified. If he’s a working project manager as in on site then I can totally understand, but for a loft conversion it just seems as tho its an unnecessary salary that needs finding each month.