Nothing to add other than an arty pic of my shand. I love it

My paddy wagon is also 73 degrees parallel. It is the best handling bike I have for the road. M oss to ride another 125km on it tomorrow morning. I do rather like orange bikes though 😀

Lots of lovely bikes there do like the look of the Shands. Don’t forget you can always go custom build if you want something specific for potentially not a lot more cash…

http://www.vernonbarkercycles.co.uk/frame_building.html

http://www.shop.18bikes.co.uk/m5b0s578p2173/EIGHTEEN-Custom-Frame-2014

This is my Stooshie, I am really happy with it. I had it custom made as I need a long top tube, it handles really well

ampthill – Member
Does “sharp” handling actually let you do anything that dull handling doesn’t. Do you get there faster? Or is just a preference thing

No, but it does it better.

One place where it really does matter is when you’re climbing steep stuff. A sharp handling bike won’t be flopping all over the place, and on the following fast descent won’t be scaring you with unpredictable weaves or slow response. And it will go round a fast corner on exactly the line you chose.

When I was a lad, 73º HAs were usually found on fixed bikes, and 72º for general sports and race bikes. Check the angle on Nervex Pro lugs, and they were usually specified as 72º parallel (it’s often stamped on the rhs of the seat lug).

That said, where you put your weight on the bike does make a difference to how a bike handles. That’s one reason there has been such a wide range of geometries used over the years.

My current N+1 would be this

firestarter – Member
Nothing to add other than an arty pic of my shand. I love it

Lovely looking bike and thoughtfully specced out too.

Cheers epicyclo sadly it looks less arty most of the time lol

I suspect that Steven Shand is reading this thread and simultaneously banging his head against the wall while restraining himself from posting.

When I have had a custom steel frame built, I have never told the builder what angles I want. I have told them what I was going to use the bike for and what I was looking for from the bike in terms of feel and handling, and relied on their skill and expertise to choose tubes and geometry etc. to deliver that. I have not been disappointed: my steel bikes are my favourites over and above high end off-the-shelf carbon and titanium, and I have no idea what their angles are – I just ride them.

With regard to the off-the-shelf Stoater’s slack head angle, this angle is part of a complete design package, which was doubtless arrived at as optimal for that particular frame size for >90% of riders. As well as for handling appropriate for the bike and type of riding/terrain for which it was developed (in conjunction with the rest of the geometry), the head angle has probably been chosen to maximise mudguard and tyre clearance (more important given that the Stoater will likely be used with large tyres and/or off road where low speed manoeuvres would be more likely to cause toe strikes).

That Shand as a very nice-but-dull 70-71 degree head angle. OF course you can ride it on the road, but… it will handle like the touring bike it is designed to be. For a proper road experience you really want something with sharper handling. Look for 72.5 or 73 degree head angle. A 73 degree parallel design is an excellent handling road bike. You should be able to fit a rack if needed.

Even for Audax riding, I would go for something sharper. I do, however love the flex of steel.

Colnagos have head angles as low as 70-71 degrees, and that does not appear to have impeded their success commercially and in races. Their handling is often described as very stable and neutral, especially at high speed, qualities which may also be desirable in an audax bike.

Morecashthandash, you have already specified your design brief, and the Stoater does sound a very close fit to your requirements. However, the advantage of going to a good quality UK frame builder like Shand, is that you can discuss what you want from the frame and bike with him, and if necessary/appropriate you can go for a custom build.

Just got the feeling that my heart may be ruling my head, there are cheaper options out there.

The right bike, and the one that is best value, is the one that you makes you want to ride, and you are probably more likely to be confident of getting that from the likes of Shand.

Thanks for the responses folks. I’ll try and test a few 73 degree bikes

I have a stooshie. It may well be the best bike I have event owned. I’ve raced cyclocross, commuted and done long road rides on it. If I had only one bike, this would be it without doubt.

I currently have a Boardman CX and a Genesis Equlibrium for road/winter/commute stuff. I was wondering if a Stoater would do all the above that the Genesis does plus the odd CX, so I can drop to only 1 bike to do it all. It sounds like it will, but I didn’t assume the Stooshie would, but it would appear I’m wrong. 😳

How much tyre clearance is there on the stooshie? will it take CX tyres easily?

What about a Condor Fratello Disc? davidtaylforth off here has one and has posted pics in a thread called “has anyone got a fratello” have a look, loads of info in there about his quest for a steel disc roadie.

And his is really nice.

This pics just off Road.cc

Mr Shand had not seen this thread when I spoke to him at the Cycle Show a couple of hours ago – and judging by the crowds when we left he isn’t going to be looking at it any time soon.

I’ve kind of narrowed it down to a Shand – and he suggested the Stoater over the Stooshie – or a Condor Fratello Disc as above, which looks far more attractive in real life than that picture does it credit.

And I have a feeling I may know who started that “anyone have a Fratello” thread….. 😳

😆

Ha! You’ve been looking for a while then 😆

BOL, post pics when you decide..

😆

Just checked, and it was me that started that thread. I don’t like to rush into these things.

Just discovered the custom paint options on the Condor site 🙄

Yeh, the Conndors are alright. 73/73 angles on mine FWIW. Sometimes I ride it and feel I should have gone for a 5-10mm longer TT though. If I was to pick fault in it, it’s the lack of a carbon steerer on the forks. Do like the look of those Shands; not so keen on that Ritchey, bolt through axles are not necessary in my opinion. Have never had any issue with the QRs on my bike.

I have nano 40s in the stooshie at the mo. If I needed more mud clearance I’d fit a 35mm or even a uci legal tyre…

Sorry for going a little off topic, but @ davidtaylforth what are those bars? Cheers

Just gone through my photos I took at the show and had completely forgotten about the blinged up Mason (on the Hope stand, I think.)

The Shand handlebars were really nice, just a little flare from lower down the drops compared to most flared bars. Worth a punt for £34 according to the website.

Ritchey Neo Classic

I have nano 40s in the stooshie at the mo. If I needed more mud clearance I’d fit a 35mm or even a uci legal tyre

That’s much bigger than I expected

Ta

Seems like the front upper rack mount has become the default place to attach the front mud guard but I wish there was a prettier spot 🙁

Lovely thanks pal.

This thread has some gorgeous bikes! Almost regret selling my last road bike…

[…]about the blinged up Mason (on the Hope stand, I think.)[…]

Mason Bokeh? Linky- due soon.

That bokeh is a good chunk of money.

Not convinced at all about the need for those thru axles on these bikes, DT Swiss 9mm and 10 RWS skewers and convertable hubs give a pretty secure connection into standard (legacy) dropouts.

No, the Mason was the Resolution. Looked great, but a chunk more than I’m prepared to step up to pay for.

Fairy nuff.
(The Ti Bokeh is indeed a big ticket item; interested in the ‘basic’ one)