digga exactly the problem i agree.. The American solution of legal vacuum or grey sites is not the answer and the British of allowing rendition to the legal vacuum is as bad. If the “game” has changed we need to developnthe rules not abandon them.

http://www.teamrock.com/news/2015-12-15/guantanamo-man-aamer-consoled-by-whitesnake

Today’s enemies of global peace

That us isnt it ?
We always seems to be at war…oops my mistake isnt it we are defending ourselve sby bombing foreign lands …yet when they do this to us ts teroris,

Jamby The way you instantly contradict yourself and in the same sentence as well [ bonus points there] and get others to respond was a masterclass in trolling. Nice use of the appeal to authority. too short hence not full marks.
9/10.

says quite rightly that conversations and treatment on the basis of civil law are irrelevant as this was a combat/war situation and different ruies apply.

what “different rules” exactly? Either they’re soldiers (military law, Red Cross, Geneva etc) or they’re Civilians (civil or criminal law etc etc)

The US as I remember realised that both of these would mean that they’d have to treat these men they’d just snatched with something approaching their human rights. Which, as they wanted to torture them, they clearly couldn’t do, hence the made up term “Enemy Combatant”

The US can thusly talk about “war on Terror” and couch it in terms of imminent danger and a battle for survival, which of course it clearly isn’t, as the US is the single most powerful entity on the planet, and is in no real danger from disparate groups of terrorists, any more than we were from the IRA, or the Germans were from Baader-Mienhoff, etc etc …

Propaganda is a glorious thing, no?

The US can thusly talk about……

I learn so much coming on here. I had no idea that such a word as “thusly” even existed.

As above, torture needs to be defined. What any of us might describe as bordering on torture is what the Americans call enhanced interrogation. This includes water boarding. I know Ahmed complained of having his head hit against a wall, I would imagine the world over thats been done as part of interrogation millions of times.

If you guys want to complain about it feel free to start up the conversation with the Americans. Obama said he’d close Guantanamo more than 8 years ago and he hasn’t, that would suggest there are issues in doing so or he thinks it is achieving something. Likewise why did it take so long to release Ahmed ? The Anericans really do have better things to do than holding people purely for the sake of it.

If you want you can watch Andrew Marr on iPlayer and see for yourself the statement I posted here from the American diplomat.

hence the made up term “Enemy Combatant”

They made up the term “illegal combatant”.

It actually had major repercussions for every civilian that the UK MoD employed “in support of war fighting”, tank transporter drivers, etc.

Thanks Gobuchul, i knew it was something like that, couldn’t be arsed to look it up.

I’m not sure it does ernie 😆

i don’t think you can say the Americans call it “enhanced interogation” just one politician/lawyer who was told to draft an advice that said torture was not torture unless it would result in death most Americans including their lawyers and the senate easily worked out that the tactics at Guantanimo were in fact torture plus they have the handy codified definition quoted above.

What any of us might describe as bordering on torture is what the Americans call enhanced interrogation.

Well they’re hardly going to describe what they’re doing as torture, are they ?!

So instead of talking of kidnapping innocent people and torturing them, they talk about extraordinary rendition and enhanced interrogation. Which sounds quite OK and perfectly legal.

Which sounds quite OK and perfectly legal.

And as nobody can tell them otherwise… It is.

Of course, I’m so stupid.

Well they’re hardly going to describe what they’re doing as torture,

CIA produced a report where they admitted to torture in general

Of the 119 known detainees, at least 39 were tortured by the CIA.[1] In at least six cases, the CIA used torture on suspects before evaluating whether they would be willing to cooperate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_CIA_torture#Examples_of_torture_and_abuse_of_prisoners