• This topic has 64 replies, 46 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by poah.
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  • Selling my Five, but what to buy?
  • roverpig
    Full Member

    Following my 3rd trip to A&E in 14 months I’ve decided to make a few changes to how and what I ride, which includes selling the Five. It was a tough decision as I love that bike, but (like many bikes of its type) it’s a bike that gets more fun the faster you go, which isn’t what I need right now. Of course you can ride it slowly. It even gets up hills (especially technical ones) surprisingly well. But that’s not where the fun is. That comes when you point it down hill and get it up to speed. Then it really comes alive; snaking over rocks and finding bits of traction in the strangest places.

    Don’t get me wrong, I totally get why people get hooked on this feeling and accept the odd injury as a price worth paying. I may come back to it myself one day, but I’d like to see if I can get my jollies some other way for a while.

    I’m lucky, I guess, in that I’ve always enjoyed the climbs as much as the descents. So, I’d like a bike that makes climbing fun. I’m not just into head down, arse up suffer-fests though. More all day rides up and down big mountains. I still like to try and tackle technical descents though, so it needs to be a confident descender. But it doesn’t have to be fast. I’m happy to pick my way down the descents, but I’d rather not have to walk. I like the idea of hardtails and have owned a couple, but as soon as I get tired I really get fed up with the jarring over every rock etc, so it probably needs to be full suss. Finally, I like to play. I can’t wheelie, manual or bunny hop for toffee, but I like to try. So, a bike that makes these “tricks” easier would appeal.

    So, what should I be looking for?

    I’m not so much looking for makes and models at this stage, although feel free to recommend whatever is in your shed 🙂 I’m more interested in general design e.g. wheelsize, angles, travel, chainstay length etc. Then I can start to narrow the field down a bit.

    weeksy
    Full Member

    Salsa Spearfish.

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    Road bike.

    variflex
    Free Member

    130mm 650b full sus……whyte T130, new Transition. Im sure other manufacturers will be bringing out similar this year.

    This way you get the best of both wolds as per your post.
    Climb well, go downhill well and can still do all day rides.

    Jeffus
    Free Member

    100mm travel 29er , I had a Salsa Spearfish 100mm front 80mm rear , it was a great bike , low BB kept it stable , it climbed well, actually was really quick downhill but reminded you in a kind way

    devash
    Free Member

    Transition Klunker?

    That way you’ll be too scared to go fast.

    haggis1978
    Full Member

    I’m in exactly the same boat 2 trips to A and E in 2 months. Most recently I properly snapped my Humerus, def not as funny as it sounds! Did you see what I did there? 😉 was in the middle of nowhere at the time as well. I’ve now got a 4 month lay off from work and a 10″ scar down my tricep where the surgeon had to slice my tricep in two to fit the Ti plate and 11 screws.

    As I was on my Ritchey P-29er at the time and descending an unfamiliar piece of trail I’m putting it down to several factors:
    1. Unfamiliar trail (but not really that technical for me normally)
    2. Very XC orientated bike and hence not as capable a descender as some bikes.
    3. A bit of a gung go attitude given it was an unfamiliar trail.

    My response is to sell my XC orientated bikes and get something with slacker angles. Which is where I seem to differ from you rover pig as I know if I’d been coming down that trail on a Five I would have cleaned it no problem as I would have more suspension and more rubber between me and the ground. I understand your opinion that you go too fast on it but a lot is to be said about having that extra bit of suspension to help you through. I’m also going to get myself on another skills course as well at glentress and instead of just going out to ride my bike round trails I also intend on going out to practise the skills as well to make me a better rider.
    I.e. Up and down the streets doing bunny hops, manuals, cornering and shifting my weight about on the bike etc which I’m ok at just now but if I’m better at these skills then I should be better equipped to deal with what comes at me on the trails.

    The reason I’ve came to this last idea about a skills course is that I heard it said second hand that Chris Ball, the guy who does the skills courses and runs Dirt School and also appears in a few magazines says every accident he ever had during his downhill career was due to not having enough weight forward on the bike to maintain traction with the front wheel. Hence if I get my skill level up I should crash less.

    iainc
    Full Member

    I went through similar early last yr and went from a 5 to a Soul with a reverb. I dont miss the 5, for the type of riding I do, mainly natural west of scotland xc stuff, however I had my biggest and worst fall ever on the Soul…..

    Steel hardtail for me is better as I do go a little slower but dont miss much comfort

    julians
    Free Member

    i dont think changing bikes is going to stop you crashing as much or reduce the severity of the resulting injury,it might even make it all worse.

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    You could always try riding within your capabilities?

    I know I do.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Road bike. Seriously.

    Come back to MTBing when you’re ready.

    Metasequoia
    Full Member

    How about go slower now and develop some more skills, then speed up. Keep the bike I doubt very much that it’s the cause of your crashes. Learn to Ride within your skills and fitness level-you will crash very infrequently and become a better rider.

    philwarren11
    Free Member

    Keep the bike.

    Get lessons. Stay as fast. Dont fall off.

    oscillatewildly
    Free Member

    time to pack in mtb’ing, seriously 3 trips to A&E is a worry, id be forgetting it and telling myself id be better off on a road bike

    the odd trip and comedy fall fine, but 3 trips to a&e is on a whole new level

    either that, or just stop riding the stuff you are riding and stick to stuff you are capable of riding on, which quite frankly regardless of bike you must be struggling with

    Ecky-Thump
    Free Member

    I’d be looking more closely at the contributory factors to the 3 trips to A&E, before changing the bike.

    eg. Too fast (slow down a bit)/ Too slow (speed up a bit)/ got it wrong (practice getting it right)/ just bad luck (it happens)

    prawny
    Full Member

    I’d be getting a hardtail I reckon with your wreckord (see what I did there 8) )

    I nice semi aggressive 29er HT will do most things while reminding you not to push it too hard.

    That said, since I swapped my full suss to a HT I’ve managed to do things I’d not tried before and I’m faster on the other bits as well, but I’m more likely to be doing it properly at least.

    Ecky-Thump
    Free Member

    I sold my ’11 Five frame earlier this year and transplanted all the kit from it onto a 456Ti. The ONLY thing that I had to buy was a different sized lower headset cup, everything else fits.

    I don’t feel much slower except on the really fast rocky stuff, and I’ve got a bigger FS for those sort of days anyway. The only real drawback with the 456Ti over the Five is an increased frequency of wheel truing and spoke replacement.

    Euro
    Free Member

    So, I’d like a bike that makes climbing fun.

    If you find one of those, please share 😀

    I don’t think changing the bike cure your issue. Sounds like you need to work on reading the trail and how and when to apply the brakes.

    If you must change the bike i’d suggest a good hardtail frame that you can swap the 5 bits onto (be it 26 or 650b) as it’ll make the bunny hopping, manualling and jumping easier to learn properly. You can then either sell the 5 frame or hang onto it until you think you’re ready.

    danti
    Full Member

    Before getting rid of a bike you love and losing £££ I’d be looking at some decent skills tuition and body armour.

    failedengineer
    Full Member

    I sold my 5 last year and got a Whyte T129. I like it more than the 5 in most aspects apart from balls-out descending and the fact that it’s not welded in Yorkshire. Just to reinforce my girly descending credentials, I immediately sold the dropper post. Seriously, it’s a fab bike and I don’t miss the 5.

    oscillatewildly
    Free Member

    the thing is about 5’s is, they are great for descending! so assuming you are falling when descending then theres not much else out there that descends as assuringly as a five with that sort of travel to be perfectly honest

    i dont like the way they climb in hindsight, but it was defo just as much fun descending wise than any other bike ive tried

    i cant see how changing bike is going to stop you make visits to A&E

    Shackleton
    Full Member

    At the risk of sounding patronising I’d pay for a day of 1:1 tuition/skills course on the kind of terrain you have trouble with. You will probably benefit more from learning what you are doing wrong than trying to hide behind a different bike.

    It would work out cheaper than a new bike and you may actually find you enjoy your riding more. I know I did when I had trouble.

    If you do insist on changing bike then maybe some of the new breed 29ers would be right (Banshee Phantom, Process 111, Salsa Horsethief, Tallboy LT, etc).

    br
    Free Member

    Many years ago I was in a similar ‘position’, having a Spesh S-Works Enduro. I swapped to a HT (a 456) and just rode it, everywhere. Then bought a 456Ti, as it was lighter.

    6 years later I’m now ready to get a FS again. The biggest difference is I’ve now learnt how to ride, properly. This has co-incided with a move to Scotland and riding on trails previously I would’ve never touched, even with the FS. And with guys who can ride them.

    So I’d just buy a frame and build it up from the 5, and put the 5 frame on the wall for when you’re ready.

    I should’ve kept my FS frame, and I should’ve taken some training…

    dvowles82
    Free Member

    How about a slack, confident hardtail? The Whyte 905 would probably be ideal, as it’s got the angles for confident descending, combined with spritely bursts of speed out of corners, in virtue of being a hardtail (no pedal bob + lower weight). It’s also got a short back end, making manuals etc easy. Put a dropper post on it and some beefy tyres, and it could be just the ticket.

    z1ppy
    Full Member

    You know you want a Segment.

    chrismac
    Full Member

    As others have said. My view would be keep the bike and invest in some skills tuition. I did after a series of falls and it was money well spent.

    roverpig
    Full Member

    Damn, I had hoped that a few more people would try and answer the question rather than try to convince me that it’s the wrong question. Still, I’m sure you are all trying to be helpful, so I’d better try and respond. Please excuse the curt reply. Typing left handed is frustratingly slow.

    No, I don’t blame the bike. It’s me that needs to change. Selling the Five may just be a symbolic gesture, but it’s a gesture that I feel I need to make.

    Yes, if all I cared about was reducing risk, it would be safer to ride a big bouncy bike slowly, but that would be boring. More importantly I know I wouldn’t do it.

    Yes, skills courses are userful. I’ve done a few (group and 1:1). They were fun and made me a better rider. I crash less often, but I’m going faster when I do.

    Yes I could buy a road bike. Actually I have one and have never stopped riding on the road. But I’d like to carry on riding trails as well.

    Yes, 3 trips to A&E in 14 months is a lot, but on my own I’m a statistically insignificant sample. It may be down to lack of skill, it may be that 50 year old bones don’t bounce so well, it may just be bad luck. Nobody, including me, knows and it doesn’t matter. The fact is that I’m looking to change the way I ride and I’m looking for a bike that will make that new type of riding more fun.

    Yes I really do enjoy climbing and I suspect that I’d enjoy it even more on a bike that was lighter, stiffer and more agile.

    No, I don’t want a hardtail (I’ve already got one). See original post.

    I have an irrational objection to 650b, but wont rule it out. The T130 just looks like another slack trail bike to me though.

    The Spearfish looks promising. Pity that the only frames available are a dull green colour.

    ps. Get well soon haggis1978. I still consider myself lucky that the fracture on my humerus didn’t go all the way through, so you have my sympathy.

    mrhoppy
    Full Member

    It worries me that you think of manuals, bunny’s and jumps as tricks. They’re very useful tools to enable you to ride more difficult terrain in control, you need to reconsider your mindset when you’re riding,get into the habit of trying to ride things well not necessarily fast.

    You don’t need a different bike to ride differently, a five will do everything perfect well and if not don’t you have an FF29 anyway? Just go out and do different riding.

    NormalMan
    Full Member

    Are you keeping the Solaris? That covers what most are suggesting as a ht replacement and I’d say ride that more!*

    For a fs recommendation, how about a Camber Evo?

    *I may well be biased on that one!

    roverpig
    Full Member

    I did put “tricks” in inverted commas as I knew it wasn’t the right word. As I say, it’s frustrating typing left handed and I don’t have the energy to think of the right words.

    Slack HT with short stays has crossed my mind. But why does it need to be slack? What does slack gain you? Aren’t slack head angles mainly designed to increase stability at speed. They also make it harder to pick a line when going up a technical climb at walking pace, don’t they?

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Sounds to me like you are trying to blame the bike…

    Surely riding offroad at 50 you need to be careful, and dare I say it ride slower a.k.a riding within your abilities (which at 50 doesnt necesarily mean skill, but your bodies limitations)

    roverpig
    Full Member

    Are you keeping the Solaris

    Not sure yet. I built up the Solaris as my rehabilitation bike after the last crash as I found the FF29 was just too twitchy at a time when I was nervous about even the smallest of falls. It has proved to be a great bike though and I may well just go back to using it as my only bike, at least through the winter. I do find the hardtail annoying after a few hours in the saddle though.

    mrhoppy
    Full Member

    What you’re looking for is a bit moon on a stick though. You want a bike that will climb well, descend confidently on technical stuff whilst being fun to ride slowly. The problem you have is that the characteristics that make a bike climb well (steeper angles, shorter travel, longer stays) don’t really sit too well with solid descending, and if you’re already crashing and getting a bike that is less competent is only going to make life harder. Looking at what you’re after id say a 120-140mm trail bike but you own that and want something different. As for fun going slowly then you’re looking at a trials bike or a reset of what you are looking for from a ride.

    beamends
    Free Member

    first thing first, after you have recovered… learn how to manual and hop over things, makes a night a day difference on a real trail. no point going as fast as possible only to fall off on the first technical bit you come across. it also helps to ride over things rather than though them if that makes any sense

    id say park the big bike up first and get back out on the hardtail, you need skill to ride one rather than using suspension to make up for mistakes

    o and heeling vibes

    Euro
    Free Member

    Roverpig, it’s all to easy to over think things when you’re out of action. Just concentrate on getting healed and see how you feel when mended.

    NormalMan
    Full Member

    roverpig – Member
    I do find the hardtail annoying after a few hours in the saddle though.

    Just a long shot here, but I know you like thinking ( 😉 )
    but are you fuelling yourself on longer rides? Fatigue can play a big role in concentration issues / poor line choices, etc.

    adsh
    Free Member

    Get a Jones, a beard and change your outlook from speed and fun to diamond vs space frame vs truss vs blah blah blah.

    Paceman
    Free Member

    Get a Jones, a beard and change your outlook from to outright fun (and probably to diamond vs space frame vs truss vs blah blah blah.)

    A Stooge, Surly Krampus or similar would also have the same effect on your riding.

    And maybe sign up to a skills course, it might work out cheaper (an less painful) in the long run.

    deejayen
    Free Member

    I was going to say a Jones, too. I’m a road cyclist, and timid off-road, but if buying a mountain bike I’d go for a Jones. The handling is spot-on, and the bike is very confidence-inspiring.

    roverpig
    Full Member

    The problem you have is that the characteristics that make a bike climb well (steeper angles, shorter travel, longer stays) don’t really sit too well with solid descending,

    Yes, it’s all a trade-off. I am prepared to give up high speed stability if that’s any help 🙂 Interesting point about stays, thanks. I’ve been thinking 29er for covering ground efficiently, then keep the stays as short as possible (<440mm) for manuals etc. But if the main focus is riding up steep mountains, would I be better off letting the stays grow a bit and working harder on technique?

    it’s all to easy to over think things when you’re out of action. Just concentrate on getting healed and see how you feel when mended

    Sage advice, but I can’t do anthing else fun at the moment, so may as well waste a bit of the internet.

    are you fuelling yourself on longer rides?

    Probably not and that is something else I should work on, thanks.

    Get a Jones, a beard and change your outlook from speed and fun to diamond vs space frame vs truss vs blah blah blah

    It has crossed my mind. Well, not the beard, but the rest. However, I spent a few years riding recumbents and while that was fun I eventually came to the conclusion that wierd niches are wierd niches for a reason. I tend to lump Jones (maybe unfairly) in the same category.

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