http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Falkland_Islands

The Falklands have no indigenous people!

This archiac claptrap I believe is the reason the Argies (nee Spanish) believe they have a claim to the Falkands.

Theres little else to substantiate any claim other than proximtiy.

Edit….Mr Penn is a complete tool.

Can we give them Scotland instead?
They want out, but the Falklands don’t, so why not?
It would even things up a bit too, with both countries having a territory in the other hemisphere.
Would also make the Six Nations more interesting. 😉

we took by force from someone else

Untrue.
False
In November 1832, Argentina sent Commander Mestivier as an interim commander to found a penal settlement, but he was killed in a mutiny after 4 days.[27] The following January, British forces returned and requested the Argentine garrison leave

ous

Really? Reference please?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/south-american-block-on-falkland-registered-vessels#post-3300853

and much more on this thread and links therin

Ie we have done this before

Looking forward to them claiming Antarctica and seeing how the Russians take the news.

Me thinks Sean has been watching Braveheart with his Jew hating friend.

British forces returned and requested the Argentine garrison leave

True then AND many years after ownership had been established.

the UN is clear the Falklands is a colony and the rights of the people to self determination are not to be considered as they were planted there and are not indigenous

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/south-american-block-on-falkland-registered-vessels#post-3300853

No chance. Nowhere near it in fact.

Answer me this question, Junky: if the UK controlling the Falklands is colonialism, wouldn’t Argentina controlling the Falklands also be colonialism? If you’re deciding between one colonial master or another, shouldn’t the will of the colonists be taken into account?

TandemJeremy – Member
which did not give them right of abode in the UK

Your point?

They don’t want to abide in the UK, they want to abide in the Falklands

Good point – should send all the settlers back to Spain where they came from and let the indigenous population have Argentina back.

Or wasn’t that what you meant?
So if Israel did what i suggested it would be right then ..or is that not what you meant 😉

It is clearly a complicated issue and one where it will be difficult to find universal principles where by we could impose some world order based on some arbitrary date or time. Nonetheless I am sure even you can see the point I was making.

The proximity is interesting as well – we did this on the other thread and someone wants to know how close is ok..it seems clear without imperial intervention Argentina would “own” the Falklands due to proximity and for us to claim it is a ludicrous as them to claim the Isle of white

yes other anomalies exist and we cannot re write the entire map but this principle is hardly a difficult one to understand

Basically some want to apply their is oil lets keep it

some want to say we settled it,it is mile away so lets give it back
Some say let the people [we planted there] decide

All of these principles have some weight to them and none can be completely ignored you must decide which you put most weight to his

Whichever you choose we can give counter situations

Obviously this is STW so lets just argue and score points from one another for the 4th?? time in one month on the same subject.. I am sure this time someone will change their mind and concede ground…..this is what STW is know for

aracer you need to address that complex philosophical conundrum, to the UN

and consider the question in light of my views above

It is always easier to just ask snipey questions form the sidelines that state your own view
STW in groundhog day shocka

A bit of reading around the subject and I don’t see that Argentina has a particularly better claim to them than the UK(though I don’t think we actually “claim” them do we? Just support their right for self governance under our protection) – both are pretty vague to say the least. Their upside is that they are quite a bit closer (although the original poster making similarity claims to the IOW showed a bit of geographical ineptness – they are A LOT further away than that!) and the UK’s upside is that the current residents would like things to stay as they are.

Bit of a mess though generally.

Ultimately if it kicks off do we have the capability to keep them?
Are the islanders EU citizens? Will be nice to have a bit of backing from our European partners.

.it seems clear without imperial intervention Argentina would “own” the Falklands due to proximity and for us to claim it is a ludicrous as them to claim the Isle of white

Have you read up much on the history of “Argentina”? That’s a nation that only exists because of “imperial” intervention and is predominately made of up of a populous of imperial descendants who still speak the mother tongue of their previous imperial governors. Both (Argentina and Falklands) are the product of imperial meddling from Europe so why should it seem obvious for one to subsume the other just because of size? It all adds to the mess.

In the absence of a compelling and convincing reason for a change then, the status quo must prevail. (rockin all over the world)

some want to say we settled it,it is mile away so lets give it back

Give it back to who, Spain?
There has never been a legitimate Argentinian claim to the islands, the best they can come up with is proximity which is no claim at all.
The UN request that the UK and Argentina open talks to establish sovereignty. That is it, it makes no judgement at all on who has the most legitimate claim (standard non-committal UN fare).
It is obvious that this isn’t going to happen and particularly now there’s something in it for the UK (oil).
So Sean Penn, South America and TJ can moan until the cows return, it just doesn’t matter. The FI will remain a UK concern.

I still haven’t the foggiest what the UN, Argentina, or anyone else expect to get out of talks. They will probably go somewhere along the lines of:

Argentina: “We’d quite like control of the islands”

UK: “We’d rather you didn’t”

UN: “Could you share?”

UK and Argentina: (in unison) “No!”

Just to add that IMHO, the UK would do well for relations in the area if Argentina got a small cut of proceeds from the oil. Spread the wealth a little.

The proximity is interesting as well – we did this on the other thread and someone wants to know how close is ok..it seems clear without imperial intervention Argentina would “own” the Falklands due to proximity and for us to claim it is a ludicrous as them to claim the Isle of white

Isn’t Chile virtually the same distance?

In the absence of a compelling and convincing reason for a change then, the status quo must prevail.

I think so

[quoteHow would you feel if Argentina claimed the Isle of Wight?[/quote]

pissed because i live here!

Just to add that IMHO, the UK would do well for relations in the area if Argentina got a small cut of proceeds from the oil. Spread the wealth a little.

Problem is, I don’t think Argentina would accept that.

Not 100% Cameron would give it either :-/

Even as a card carrying pinko lefty, I’d say in the absence of a proper prior ownership claim, the fact that a previous administration tried to take them by force and most importantly the populations will remain as is, then the current situation is how it should stay.

Not sure what the comparisons with Diego Garcia are in aid of – all it shows is that our governments are capable of being unpleasant when it suits them. Not exactly news. It’s probably fair to say they care more about the oil than the islanders in this case, but at least the result is the ‘right’ thing.

Sean Penn is a man who makes a living from standing where he’s told to stand and say what he’s been told to say.

Look at my face.

Am I bovvered. 🙄

3 thoughts.
1) Do you have a flag? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYeFcSq7Mxg

2) It’s all Th*tcher’s fault

and

3) Not sure that someone with two Academy Awards could be described as being ‘not very good’ at acting.

Malvinas – we should have a scrap. Whoever wins gets them, until someone next wants a scrap about them. Fight! Fight! Fight!

I see Sean will be at the ceremony to hand over his country to the red* Indians.

*Edit

Why, have India made a claim on them too?

India was created by the British..

India was created by the British..

I was lied to – my geography teacher told me it was formed by plate tectonics!

There was an interesting analysis of the situation in the Guardian yesterday, basically suggesting that Kirchner is posturing to try and deflect from the reality of her domestic situation, which is that she’s a 2nd term president of a country who’s economy is flagging, and doesn’t want the vultures circling any earlier than necessary.

All the analysis of Argentina’s military capabilities I’ve come across seems to suggest that they don’t have the capacity to mount an invasion of the Falklands against the current British garrison as they lack a counter to the Typhoons based there, and don’t have the means to defend a seaborne invasion fleet against the Royal Navy’s hk subs. If that’s an accurate analysis, then I can’t imagine the Argentinian military are desperate for Kirchner to pick a real fight.

What’s the Spanish for “do not feed the troll”

What’s the Spanish for “do not feed the troll”

‘effeffefeffeffeff Chris Waddle’ ?

Think we have as good a claim as anyone.

Borders, who owns what, who should have what, is all open to question. History has shown that things change, peoples move, countries rise and fall, polulations expand contract, are forcibly moved, willingly move.

Some countries expand, others fall apart.

For now its ours, and when Scotland becomes independent, we should get a portion of it, preferrably the bit with the oil! 😉

You should have heard the Argentine Foreign Ministers speach to the UN. It was one BIG troll.

On another note Sean who? Im going to go off and google his films. Sounds very familiar but can’t remember his recent work.

Ah! Carlito’s Way and Being John Malkovich.

Ultimately if it kicks off do we have the capability to keep them?

Basically yes. Also I would fully expect the US to ‘lend’ us a load of hardware as they did last time. They only got ashore last time because they took everyone by surprise – there is now some decent defences in place.

there is now some decent defences in place.

The Argie Foreign Minister tried painting a picture of UK capability to hit Peru/Brazil etc with its Nuclear Submarines….obviously designed to scare and shock any neighbouring countries against the Brits..

Thing is, we don’t even want to fight the Argentinas. Just to beat them at football 😆

I hope the UN doesn’t ‘order’ us to fight it out in a football game..

Didn’t the French give us a hand the last time as well, by ‘losing’ the Argentinian order for more Exocets – might be an idea if CMD went and played kiss and make up with Sarkozy, just in case.

we don’t even want to fight the Argentinas
The squaddies probably do. Starting fights in pubs is all well and good but you can’t beat a proper scrap with no police around.

Hopefully the Argentinians have secured another battleship by now or the lads in the RN will be very disappointed…

sharkbait – Member

Ultimately if it kicks off do we have the capability to keep them?

Basically yes. Also I would fully expect the US to ‘lend’ us a load of hardware as they did last time. They only got ashore last time because they took everyone by surprise – there is now some decent defences in place

What did the US lend us last time? Do you mean in 1982 or WWII

Should I support The Falklands

Do they even have a football team?

I hope the UN doesn’t ‘order’ us to fight it out in a football game..

A football match would absolutely be the best way to decide ownership of Falklandia.

Everyone likes a game of football.

We could replay the match every 4 years to see who wins ownership of the place for the next term.

This is also the way that general elections should be decided.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_official_football_team

The squaddies probably do. Starting fights in pubs is all well and good but you can’t beat a proper scrap with no police around.

😆

You should have heard the Argentine Foreign Ministers speach to the UN. It was one BIG troll.

you are the BBC chief political correspondent and i claim my £5

FFS like anyone believes you listened to that Hora ..Lies, damn lies and Hora posts 🙄