Igm, doesn't the extent or type of your Scottishness depend on whether you summer at Salcombe-on-the-Forth, sorry Elie, or elsewhere?
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Scottish independence - why do only the Scots get to vote?
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Posted 4 months ago #
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Zokes, he may even provide a home for the Aboriginal news makers today?
Heh - pity they didn't get to Abbott - the guy makes dubya look both moderate and intelligent.
mmm... that attitude really encourages the wider population of the UK to support "I'm all-right-jack" ex pats doesn't it? Voting reform will come, in one form or another - don't be surprised if you find the people of the UK disinclined to allow ex Pats to milk the rest of us for what they can whilst looking down their noses at us.
That was an attitude directed at D_J, hence why I quoted him.
Not really sure there's much looking down my nose at non-ex-pats. The only reason I'm out here (and by association, my wife too) is that there weren't (and still aren't, judging by the jobs.ac.uk emails I get) many jobs available. So I could have either wasted that long education paid for mainly by the British tax payer and 'taken' (in Ernie's words) someone else's job in Tesco's, or sat on the dole - both options pretty much leaving me with no chance to get back into my career, as it's so competitive that breaks generally mean end of the road.
Or, I could have been proactive, found a post that allows me to develop further, with a view to returning at the earliest opportunity, and continuing to contribute. Funnily enough, this was the path I chose.
What I don't get is why everyone looks on ex-pats with that attitude. Sure, for a few it's off for a nice life in the sun, but for a lot of young professionals, it's because they can't find a job in the UK. Or presumably, you'd prefer us to forego the sunshine and sit on the dole? Jealous much?
Posted 4 months ago # -
I have no problem with you being in Aus Zokes - however I do not think you should be allowed to vote. in the UK - certainly after say 2 years abroad
Posted 4 months ago # -
however I do not think you should be allowed to vote. in the UK - certainly after say 2 years abroad
Why? I'm a british citizen, and have a democratic right to vote in the country that I'm a citizen of.
Posted 4 months ago # -
TBH zokes whilst tebbit comends you for getting on your bike I dont actually care. It is your life and you can live it how you feel fit and do what you want.
I dont see why someone who does not live here or pay taxes here has the right to vote here.
EDIT: becaus eyou contribute nothing to the country currently and the impact of decisions has next to no impact on your life in Australia
You may disagree but you cannot really find the argument a surprising one or one that is difficult to grasp
Posted 4 months ago # -
I find that hard to believe. The SNP existed before the common market and the EU, predates the Euro by several years and for most of its existence there was no concept of a "celtic tiger".
I remember the SNP's party line in the late 80s/early 90s was "independence within Europe" so they've been pro-EU for quite a while.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Or presumably, you'd prefer us to forego the sunshine and sit on the dole? Jealous much?
**** no, I'm Scottish my blue skin would turn red and blister down under. You may be the exception, but I don't know anyone who left the UK long term to find work abroad who wasn't also 'expecting a better life' in the country they were going to. I don't mind you leaving. I don't mind you coming back. I do have an issue that whilst you are away you think you should meddle in British politics.
You may disagree but you cannot really find the argument a surprising one or one that is difficult to grasp
Posted 4 months ago # -
You may disagree but you cannot really find the argument a surprising one or one that is difficult to grasp
No, I get the argument. But thankfully, the law seems to be with me. I don't imagine I'll stay in Oz for ever, and I presume I'll be back in the UK sooner or later. Therefore British policies do directly affect me.
One example:
Going to war in my country's name doesn't affect me any more than it does anyone who lives in the UK (apart from the armed forces), but I'm buggered if I don't get a futile way to say 'I didn't vote for this' as much as anyone else with half a conscience did.
Posted 4 months ago # -
As long as they leave Islay for me they can do what they want
In fact if they want away from us that much give em a big boat and ship em off , and the welsh too and come to think of it the dogs that hang around bike trails
Runs off to hide
Posted 4 months ago # -
TJ - fair enough I thought that was so, just checking. That's all.
**sound of sharpening blade in background**
Posted 4 months ago # -
I went to school in weegieland
Posted 4 months ago # -
Zokes - your situation is an interesting one and a case that should not be dismissed out of hand. After all, this is not a vote about economics or convenience, it is (or should be) a vote about the fundamental principle of self determination for Scottish people. Simplicity in voting arrangements should not be the deciding factor here. (OOI - who is paying for the referendum?)
But you have SFA chance of being successful as the fact that you have made a positive choice to move away to find suitable employment will inevitably lead to a perception of a natural bias in your voting pattern. Hmmm....!?!?
But JY raises and interesting point re taxation being the principle yardstick against which to make a judgment here. So imagine you are a Scot with Scottish family for several generations, a Scottish education who would like to live in Scotland but you decide to make a career decision to work overseas for a period before (possibly) returning home. Your view on what happens to your country of birth, ancestory, possible future location etc is considered to be of less value/relevance than someone who has no ancestoral/family ties to Scotland, was not born or bred there, who may or may not be a permanent resident, who is not (for the sake of argument and thru no fault of their own) in employment (and therefore not paying JY's taxes) but is claiming benefits from the Scottish state (perfectly legitimately).
I will have to have a think about that one!!
Posted 4 months ago # -
Therefore British policies do directly affect me.
Hope you are coping with the public sector cuts, the wage freeze , the increase in VAT and the change to tax codes etc which all have F all affect on you etc
And fade to repeat from us bothPosted 4 months ago # -
You may be the exception, but I don't know anyone who left the UK long term to find work abroad who wasn't also 'expecting a better life' in the country they were going to.
I guess I came here expecting it to be different, and sure, there are some fabulous places that it would be churlish to not pay attention to.
But TBH, lose 2 weeks of your 4 of leave visiting family back in the UK, or hosting them here, and you don't get much time to see a great deal. Work's work - same mad number of hours whether its sunny and 40 or dark and -10! There is a feeling of a better work-life balance here, but that's rapidly changing even in the 18 months I've been here. Sadly, it's just not that competitive in the international marketplace, and people here are starting to realise that.
I'll not say I'm not enjoying it, because that would be a lie, but it's certainly not a better life - more a different one through necessity of work.
I think many who come truly expecting a transformed life either led a very crap one in Blighty, or have failed to grasp that it's not a holiday, and setting up from scratch knowing noone and very little about the place you're in can be quite a stressful exercise.
And back to voting in UK elections, as I said - as I'm a British citizen, the UK government does lots of 'international relations' stuff on my behalf. I'd rather have a say, however futile, in the image it portrays of my country. More importantly, I'd rather it just stopped picking fights with people full stop, but that's yet another issue.
Posted 4 months ago # -
JY - think about laterally. He is - he has decided not to be a drain on the state after all!
(But he says, with tongue in cheek, perhaps he neither works in financial services (spit) nor the public sector (spit) and hence has no reason to be in Scotland at all :wink:).
Anyway lunch over...back to work.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Hope you are coping with the public sector cuts, the wage freeze , the increase in VAT and the change to tax codes etc which all have F all affect on you etc
And fade to repeat from us both
PMSL!
Sorry, but if you'd not got it, that's the very reason I had to leave - bugger all chance of ANY employment thanks to pretty much all of the above (with the exception of the VAT)
So in forcing me to leave to find work, those policies have actually had more of an effect on me than you.
EDIT: Hint - The only places that would need / use my skills would be universities or government-run research organisations such as CEH. So I was, up until I left, very much a public servant. If you had a valid argument, that wasn't it.
Posted 4 months ago # -
it is slightly bemusing that a "insert EU nationality"" plumber or a "insert non EU nationality"" refugee living in Scotland has a vote and Sean Connery doesn't
Posted 4 months ago # -
I'm sure Sean Connery will be relocating so he can vote.... at very least large lumps of his cash will be relocating.
Posted 4 months ago # -
a bit like a Polish student paying less than an English one?
Posted 4 months ago # -
whatnobeer - Member
I'm sure Sean Connery will be relocating so he can vote.... at very least large lumps of his cash will be relocating.a scotsman with a heart or money decision to make, I know which way social stereotyping would say he would go
Posted 4 months ago # -
I'm Scottish my blue skin would turn red and blister down under.
Since the invention of "clothes" and "sunscreen", it's been less of a problem, I assure you.So imagine you are a Scot with Scottish family for several generations, a Scottish education who would like to live in Scotland but you decide to make a career decision to work overseas for a period before (possibly) returning home. Your view on what happens to your country of birth, ancestory, possible future location etc is considered to be of less value/relevance than someone who has no ancestoral/family ties to Scotland, was not born or bred there, who may or may not be a permanent resident, who is not (for the sake of argument and thru no fault of their own) in employment (and therefore not paying JY's taxes) but is claiming benefits from the Scottish state (perfectly legitimately).
I don't need to imagine it as I am one such person. I don't think I should vote in a referendum on a place's political arrangements if I don't live in that place. Obviously the voice of the person who lives there is more important than mine.
At these moments, there is a decision point: either MTFU and move home if it means so much to you, or accept not getting a say any more as the trade off for having moved away. You can't have it both ways, though.
Posted 4 months ago # -
So - who wants my vote then - a lot of you seem to think you should get a vote and are not going to so I am quite prepared to sell my vote tot eh highest bidder
Posted 4 months ago # -
TandemJeremy - Member
So - who wants my vote then - a lot of you seem to think you should get a vote and are not going to so I am quite prepared to sell my vote tot eh highest bidder
I don't want to vote. I have no interest in Scotland so they should simply go their own way, less mouths to feed, if they wish to but just don't come back crying when things do not swim well ... or start to blame 300 years history. If they like the fish to be their leader so be it ...
Posted 4 months ago #
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