Scottish Independence - should the English have a say?

Chat Forum

Scottish Independence - should the English have a say?

196 posts & 53 voices | Started 6 months ago by Frodo | Latest reply from epicyclo

Tags:

Pages: 12…6 Next »

Frodo - Member

With the promised referendum coming soon who should have a say in the referendum, what should the question be and ultimately would Scotland be better off?

Is this like the Euro project a political folly or real progress to improve the lives of the Scottish people.

Having lived and worked in Scotland I have many fond memories and made some great friends ...I could not howver escape some of the anti English sentiment. However I can't help but feel that both England and Scotland would be poorer for it out of the union.

Personally I think the English should have a say (even if not a formal vote) as we are two halves of the same relationship and it would be wrong for one to make a unilateral decision?

Posted 6 months ago #
coffeeking - Member

I don't see how the English (and Welsh?) could possibly not be asked in any referendum - we're a union, all people's opinions are important.

Posted 6 months ago #
don simon - Member

Personally I think the English should have a say (even if not a formal vote) as we are two halves of the same relationship and it would be wrong for one to make a unilateral decision?

Of course England has the right to express an opinion but also has the right to accept the decisions of others without interfering, so no right to vote on the matter.

Posted 6 months ago #
GrahamS - Member

Last opinion polls I saw on the matter suggested that a majority of English voters would support Scottish Independence, while the majority of Scottish voters were still against it.

Wouldn't it be even worse if the English were given a say, voted for it and it went through even though the majority of Scots were against it?

Also what about the Welsh and (Northern) Irish? Should they get a say?

Posted 6 months ago #
midlifecrashes - Member

It takes two to choose to marry, only one needs to decide to divorce. You can sometimes limit the messiness of the divorce though. Do you think ~~UN peacekeepers~~ Relate will be called in?

Posted 6 months ago #
druidh - Member

Think of it like a marriage. Once one partner has decided to call it a day, the relationship no longer functions.

Posted 6 months ago #
Peyote - Member

Would the turn out to vote in England make it worthwhile? Not sure that many English folk have considered it or would. I suspect most are ambivalent. I can't recall it ever being brought up by anyone other than the Scottish, which is fair enough really!

More to the point would it even have an effect on the English? What advatages does the Union bestow on us at a personal level?

Posted 6 months ago #
Frodo - Member

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-15878391

Looks like business is asking questions that maybe politicians should be asking?

You have to ask whether this has actually been thought through anyway?

Posted 6 months ago #
binners - Member

Dear Scotland

It was fun. Its not you, its me. We can still be friends though, can't we? Even with you being so ambitious. Needing to move on. What, with your desires to be 'a prosperous independent nation within the Eurozone'. You're right. They're all doing great at the moment. Or even as part of the 'Arc of Prosperity'. I hear that's all going swimmingly too right now.

Good luck with it all. Maybe see you around eh?

England

Posted 6 months ago #
ebygomm - Member

I thought all the English living in Scotland are already getting a say?

Posted 6 months ago #
Frodo - Member

More to the point would it even have an effect on the English? What advatages does the Union bestow on us at a personal level?

No borders, different currencies, significant differeces in laws.

What about national institutions such as the BBC?

Posted 6 months ago #
druidh - Member

ebygomm - Member
I thought all the English living in Scotland are already getting a say?
That

Posted 6 months ago #
coffeeking - Member

Think of it like a marriage. Once one partner has decided to call it a day, the relationship no longer functions.

Doesn't work that way though, divorce massively affects both sides and has to be signed off by both parties IIRC (apart from exceptional circumstances) so you'd struggle to work that way.

Posted 6 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

As a citizen of the United Kingdom, I feel we should all have a say in something that affects our nation.

Mind you, tbh Scotland is a relatively minor consideration in the big scheme of things; there are 5 million people in Scotland. London's metropolitan population is 14 million. London produces far more money than Scotland does.

On that basis, I don't really see why UK taxpayers' money should be wasted on what is ultimately quite a trivial matter for the whole of the UK.

Keep it as it is and stop moaning.

Posted 6 months ago #
druidh - Member

coffeeking - Member
Doesn't work that way though, divorce massively affects both sides and has to be signed off by both parties IIRC (apart from exceptional circumstances) so you'd struggle to work that way.
I'm not saying it doesn't affect both sides, I'm saying that once one partner wants to leave, the marriage is effectively dead. You're then just arguing over who has responsibility for the children and the cutlery

Posted 6 months ago #
Mr Woppit - Member

Yes. No. Don't know. Oooh look, Snickers...

Posted 6 months ago #
Waderider - Member

"I don't see how the English (and Welsh?) could possibly not be asked in any referendum - we're a union, all people's opinions are important."

This comment demonstrates why a good unbiased knowledge of history is required - in this case, a bit of research into how the union came about.

Posted 6 months ago #
FuzzyWuzzy - Member

All that really matters is how the remaining North Sea oil revenue is split, I'd say 80:20 in favour of England else someone's going to fake reports of WMD's...

Posted 6 months ago #
Stoner - Member

Think of it like a marriage. Once one partner has decided to call it a day, the relationship no longer functions.

Wont someone think of the ~~children~~ geordies?

Posted 6 months ago #
Peyote - Member

No borders, different currencies, significant differeces in laws.

What about national institutions such as the BBC?

Yeah, fair enough, but these are hardly big things are they? We're used to differing currencies working with France and Ireland, we already have different laws. The majority of Voters aren't going to notice these differences that much.

National institutions could be interesting. I suppose the BBC maybe renamed and split into three (although there already are significant regional programming differences and local TV). Although why is the BBC still the BBC and not UKTV? Maybe it won't change then.

I can't see many people being that fussed compared to other pressures in their lives.

Posted 6 months ago #
gonefishin - Member

Wont someone think of the children geordies?

you lot have to keep them

Posted 6 months ago #
GrahamS - Member

there are 5 million people in Scotland. London's metropolitan population is 14 million. London produces far more money than Scotland does.

I'd vote for an Independent London, preferably with a big wall around it

Posted 6 months ago #
GrahamS - Member

What about national institutions such as the BBC?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/

Posted 6 months ago #
coffeeking - Member

I'm not saying it doesn't affect both sides, I'm saying that once one partner wants to leave, the marriage is effectively dead. You're then just arguing over who has responsibility for the children and the cutlery

But marriage is a contract based around love. Joint union of two countries is just legal, nothing to do with love. If you lose love in a marriage you're just in the legal union position. So if you want to argue about cutlery and split the finances, I have a feeling the woman will walk away with less unless she can prove she's contributed more than 50:50 to the marriage.

Posted 6 months ago #
Stoner - Member

you lot have to keep them

We want maintenance or we set the CSA on you!

Posted 6 months ago #
PJM1974 - Member

What's the point, we'll eventually end up as part of a closely integrated EU anyway.

IMHO the UK works best as the sum of it's constituent parts, the contribution by the Scots (and the Northern Irish and Welsh) to the economy and culture of Great Britain over the last 300 years is incalculable. To split the union now would be like throwing all of what's been achieved since 1707 away.

Posted 6 months ago #
davidrussell - Member

I'd vote for an Independent London, preferably with a big wall around it

with Boris Johnson as PM...

I think before anyone can vote in a referendum on independence a lot of work needs to be done to understand the social and economic implications of such a split. i suspect the opinion polls just now reflect the nations desire to stay as is, because they have no idea what the outcome would be should we "go it alone"

In terms of answering the OP's point i guess its the west lothian question in reverse. I can't foresee a situation though where Westminster holds a referendum to boot Scotland out of the Big Brother house....

Posted 6 months ago #
b r - Member

Yes, we English should have a vote, but not until the Scots have voted (to stay) - then we can decide whether we actually want them.

Posted 6 months ago #
davidrussell - Member

"Yes, we English should have a vote, but not until the Scots have voted (to stay) - then we can decide whether we actually want them."

We'll go if its the will of the people and i hope they would base that on whether it would be good for us. It would be foolhardy to go without knowing all the facts, especially if we would be worse off.

your forebears spent several hundred years trying to force English rule on us so you dont get rid of us that easily.

smiley (naturally)

Posted 6 months ago #
GrahamS - Member

> I'd vote for an Independent London, preferably with a big wall around it

with Boris Johnson as PM...

And Elf could be Snake Plissken.

Posted 6 months ago #
woody74 - Member

It's not should the English have a vote, it should be everyone in Britain has a vote as it is breaking up of the Union. Granted as many have said it is like a divorce but at least the rest of the country should be able to express their opinion especially as it is such a massive historical change. On a slightly different subject, how come there is no english parliament. Should there not be 4 countries, 4 parliaments and one parliament for GB. Maybe a change to the so called constitution to balance the powers of the county as a whole would stop it breaking up. Personally I don't think Scottish independence will be voted for as like the AV vote people in the UK don't like change

Posted 6 months ago #
binners - Member

Independence for the South East of England!!!!

Posted 6 months ago #
Junkyard - Member

stupid questions is it the very same people who moan about the west Lothian issue who now want a say in Scotland ?

To not mention the other members of the Union just shows the mentality of the English.

Whatever the engerlanders think they wont get a say
Binners beautiful work

Posted 6 months ago #
druidh - Member

Woody - a full Federal system might work. There's a chance that Scotland might get a chance to support this option in the proposed referendum but I don't see how this can be delivered unilaterally.

Posted 6 months ago #
Coyote - Member

I'd vote for an Independent London, preferably with a big wall around it

+1 as long as there are no gates in the wall.

Posted 6 months ago #