I just stumbled across this bit of news;

Scottish Ministers meet with NATO

Which has got me thinking and posing the question; If Scotland votes YES in a referendum why does it automatically mean a future Scottish Parliament would choose to make storing/hosting nuclear weapons in Scotland illegal? The same could be said for anything which is a policy of the SNP but not necessarily other Scottish political parties.

My main line of thought is that a new Scottish government would be formed and just because the SNP have helped bring about independence it does not automatically follow that they would win enough seats in a subsequent Scottish Parliament to enact all their polices. Is that a fair comment?

One could argue that articles like that BBC one probably don’t do the Independence lobby many favours as it reinforces the view that an independent Scoitland would be an SNP utopia which would probably put some north of the border off voting YES.

From all that I have read Scotland would do well to become independent; as in reality independence is a divorce from Westminster not the rest of Britain or the British people as a whole.

Thanks

BEB of Buckinghamshire.

Without getting bogged down in specifics, you are sort of correct. However, any negotiations will be carried out between the referendum (2014) and the proposed Independence Day (2016) and it’ll be an SNP Government negotiating on behalf of Scotland.

Realistically, how could any negotiation take place in advance of policies being made? The Yes campaign are already being accused of lacking in specifics. If we were to wait until after a referendum, even more folk would complain that they didn’t know what they were voting for.

Reality? The shape of an independent Scotland will change over time. E.g. we might keep the monarchy in 2016, but any in-coming government could obviously end that arrangement.

I think its a bit disingenuous of the Better Together campaign to complain that Yes campaign lacks specifics when they aren’t actually willing to discuss what would happen if Scotland voted Yes.

The reality is a lot of any post independence settlement would have to be negotiated after the referendum.

Anyway its largely a moot point as its very unlikely to happen – unfortunately

Oh – there’s a body of opinion that suggests the SNP won’t survive post independence. If you view it as a number of discrete factions bound by a common goal, then the ties between them could deteriorate when that goal is achieved. Given the tribal hatred shown by the Labour Party in Scotland, it’s hard to imagine any current SNP member being welcomed into that particular fold but a new left-of-centre party could well emerge and while we no longer hear the “tartan tory” jibes these days, I can well imagine some members would be happy to consolidate with the rump of the Conservative Party in Scotland (or whatever it is subsequently re-invented as).

A new left of centre party wouldn’t be the end of the world.

Labour are a shambles

It ain’t over yet rich. 😉

Good answers; from what I seen of the better together campaigns much of it often sounds like speculation at best and doom mongering at worst.

It has certainly been very negative but I think that can only be expected of a campaign that is saying “no” to change. Of course, they are also unable to answer questions like “will the UK be in the EU in 4 years time” whilst expecting the Yes campaign to come up with equivalent answers.

leave and leave now… even if its a no vote slippery salmond will cry foul and insist on another go in 5 more years..

jump now.. you can keep the nukes..oil, gas , fried mars bars as long as salmond NEVER crosses the wall which we ll be building in a flash.. Hadrian had the right idea

Oh look. The quality of the debate just hit “sewer” level.

TBF, you probably did well to get that high.

Only a few weeks ago Alastair Darling said he wanted to move the Better Together campaign on to the positives of the union. I think it’s all gone a bit quiet since then.

I’m all for it, independant Scotland, same with Wales. Then the real prize a Free Yorkshire! I am of course have not to include Hull.

I’m still convinced the whole independence thing (at least in Salmond’s eyes) is a classic case of ‘want a puppy ask for a pony.’ If he gets independence he’ll have to take the blame for anything the voters don’t like, and not have the luxury of blaming the Westminster posse (though to be fair would probably just take the Tories tack of blaming it all on the last government), whilst if he gets ‘devo-max’ as a sort of trade off then he gets more power and can still blame others.

richmtb – Member

I think its a bit disingenuous of the Better Together campaign to complain that Yes campaign lacks specifics when they aren’t actually willing to discuss what would happen if Scotland voted Yes.

Damn straight. I mean, I can see why they do it, it’s effective rabble politics but it is deeply shit. Demand hard facts from the Yes campaign, but offer nothing but scare stories. Just people eager to prove their lack of integrity.

Lol at totalshell

Shame on you scottroutes: I thought you scots had a sense of humour 😉

I want an independent South West as we have little in common with the home counties or the north for that matter, but the Cornish will never allow it as they want an independent Cornwall for the Cornish

ah right so he is using the edinburgh defence then …oh theironing

FWIW i think he means some of it and fail to see how a pro unionist thinks insulting the scots will make them want to stay with them

It like being in someone house told to follow their rules told you are a shit then they implore you to stay.

I also like the fact that almost every single one of the pro union english camp are anti the european union.

In essence the like to be the big hitter in a union or else they think it is crap which is one of the reasons many scots want to leave.

Lol at totalshell

Why?
Good luck with your campaign for an independent south west Buzz

I want an independent South West as we have little in common with the home counties or the north for that matter, but the Cornish will never allow it as they want an independent Cornwall for the Cornish

I can go for that, I’m sure we could accommodate the Cornish, got no axe to grind with them, so giving them a degree of devolved self-governance aught to be feasible.
He’ll, we’ve both got our own flags, and Kernow has it’s own language. S’fine by me. 😀

Shame on you scottroutes: I thought you scots had a sense of humour

I think they prefer to be called sweaty socks.

I also like the fact that almost every single one of the pro union english camp are anti the european union.

That seems the way of it for the most part. An independent Scotland probably would help some people face the facts that England can still play a major part in leading European and World affairs but more as a partner with other large European countries. I’d see Scotland looking more to partner with the Scandinavian countries (who let’s face it clearly demonstrate what an independent Scotland would look like).

The problem of course is always the French – London will always be closer to Paris than Edinburgh in more than just distance 😉

Totalshell for muppet of the day award.

I’ll laugh my head off if the Scots get independence. Talk about the blind leading the blind. And I say this as someone who’s dad is full on Glaswegian.

Independence for Liverpool btw, I’d say Merseyside but no **** way do I want all those woolly backs from St Helens gegging in…

And I say this as someone who’s dad is full on Glaswegian.

The JOcko equivalent of “some of my best friends are black”?

Look forward to hearing you start to chuckle Loddrik.

totalshell – Member
leave and leave now… even if its a no vote slippery salmond will cry foul and insist on another go in 5 more years..

jump now.. you can keep the nukes..oil, gas , fried mars bars as long as salmond NEVER crosses the wall which we ll be building in a flash.. Hadrian had the right idea

Is that the best you have got? honestly. Thats as useful as me calling all the English as Morris dancing loving tory cretins. And strangely enough i have never been in a chippy that selld deep fried mars bars. But dont let that hold you back 🙄

Until recently i was anti-independence on the belief that as a whole the UK was much stronger economically and politically. Now we have a bunch of politicians who are as useless as humanly possible running the show. And as is well shown on here there are a lot of people who feel powerless to do anything about it as there vote can hardly bring about a revolution of change. And honestly if independence can take away a lot of the decision making from westminster then bring it on. A change might just be exactly what this country needs.

Though the lack of policy specifics don’t fill me with too much happiness.

oh and a fact a lot of people seem to miss is this one, wanting independence for Scotland has nothing to do with being Anti English. Its about being proud of our country and wanting the best for it and its people.

calling all the English as Morris dancing loving tory cretins

Quite like morris dancing actually [sniff]

nothing to do with being Anti English

Yep we know. If you boys can work out how to do it without creating barriers and bad-feeling, democracy and all that, then do it. As long as an Englishman is still welcome when I visit for my holidays, I’m OK with it.

mactheknife – Member

Until recently i was anti-independence on the belief that as a whole the UK was much stronger economically and politically. Now we have a bunch of politicians who are as useless as humanly possible running the show.

Aye. And of course, only a single Tory MP. Being run by a shower of cocks is bad enough but it’s doubly annoying when it’s a shower of cocks you completely rejected at the polls.

Not that I’d be too impressed to have Labour in power just now either tbh. Though as a rule I’ll take incompetence over malice.

DP. Nothing to see here, move along

Alex Salmond isn’t proposing independance though, he is merely proposing to move the governemnt from London to Brussells… Scots would have less say in how Scotland is run as a result.
.
he hasn’t thought it through either, they seem to have just assumed that Scotland would gain automatic EU membership if they separated. This is a big assumption, I don’t think they have ever asked the question, presumably in case it got a no answer. Spain for example is likely to veto any membership application, to accept it would trigger all kinds of similar independance demands in Catalunya so they would never allow it.

FWIW, The Spanish have already said that they do not consider Scotland and Catalunya to be in any way related. For a start the Spanish Constitution prevents any region from gaining independence.

And the EU have said that the only folk that can ask the question pre-2016 are the UK Government. They’ve declined to do so. Why do you think that might be? Possibly because they won’t like the answer?

I do like the “no” argument that goes

1) You’ll still be in the grip of Brussels, which is bad
2) Unless you can’t get in, which is also bad.

Most of the scots who I work with are clearly of the opinion that independence will only benefit the SNP, not Scotland.

And strangely enough i have never been in a chippy that selld deep fried mars bars. But dont let that hold you back

i have, and “mock chops” whatever they are

I’ve cooked DFMBs – fun size of course, served with some high quality vanilla ice cream from Luca’s. They tend to go down rather well.

i do seem to have come round to voting yes. i will be quite glad to see it happen.

Interesting. Were you previously a floater or more veering towards a no? I’m just wondering when and why you decided.

My better half is from Newport on Tay. My grandparents are from the Borders (Kelso) and my other grandparents from Wales. I am 100% non English. I have lived in the North East all of my life. We visit Scotland twice a year to see family and friends. Not one of our friends or family has any time at all for Salmond or his party. I admire his stints on question time etc but it’s not hard to pick holes in anything any of our Politicians say or do. The most interesting fact is none of the families that live in England now would move back, under any circumstances to Scotland until it’s time to retire read into that going home to die. I have not heard of one instance of any of our friends and family that have moved here from Scotland to work and bring up their families not being welcomed with open arms. It’s just not an issue. I wish the same could be said for friends of mine that have gone to work in Scotland. I think it’s got worse because of rhetoric from Salmond.

Interesting. Were you previously a floater or more veering towards a no? I’m just wondering when and why you decided.

i find it a struggle to want to have a future within a state that keeps electing the conservatives. not that new labour where any better.

Now here’s the interesting thing; with Scottish independence 59 parliamentary seats would go. Of these only 1 is Conservative, but 40 are Labour, 12 Lib dem, and 6 SNP. Should the last election results be repeated the Conservatives would hold a majority!

My grandparents are from the Borders (Kelso) My grandparents are from the Borders (Kelso)

iirc the borders are a conservative stronghold in scotland.

reminds me, murdo fraser is in the same building as me. i must spray paint graffiti on his car. cock piss murdo or something.