In honesty, neither are blameless.

You’re right, Cougar (I agree with your whole post). I was only really arguing the point because of the earlier opinion that it was the overtakee’s fault, not the overtakers, whilst I’d actually still put the overtaker more at fault in this situation.

Errr, ummm, I see what you’re saying there, yes.

What I mean is, it’s a skill most people don’t have (because to be fair, it’s one most don’t use or want).

I used to drive like my head was on fire. These days I tend to drive somewhere around the speed limits rather than attempt to double them, but I do believe in making progress. If someone wants to dribble along at 30 in a 50 zone, they’re more than welcome to do so, however it’d please me greatly if they’d mind awfully not being a tool about it and letting me go about my business.

so gets his nose infront of me and swerves across into the non existant gap between me and lorry, hard on his brakes at the same time
I had no option but go into the back of him or swerve into the outside lane

No excuses for WVM, but you don’t see anything there you did wrong, which might have prevented your need for emergency action?

<raises hand> ooh, me sir, me sir!

I feel this thread would benefit from the driving skills and advice of Surf Matt…

Oh, I’ve forgotten about molgrips

Because when you get to the front of the queue, you might steal an opportunity that I COULD have taken.

So follow me through. If you’re struggling to overtake as much as you suggest (so much so that I’ve overtaken you whilst you’ve been sitting waiting for your number to be called), then it’s unlikely I’ll get in your way. Not that I have a particularly fast car, but I will hang back to give myself space to see and accelerate, drop a gear or two and put my foot down when overtaking so I don’t spend too long doing it.

Or am I supposed to wait at the back of the “queue” forever in the off-chance that some of those in front might decide to overtake sometime this year?

Well the same way that they don’t hand out tickets at supermarket checkouts, at petrols stations or anywhere else where there’s a queue. It’s what nice people do.

dont get me started on petrol stations molgrips I bet your the sort of person that sits in the entrance waiting for the pump with the hose on the correct side, ignoring all the empty pumps and blocking the car behind from getting to them, that then has to wait almost jutting back into the road
The hoses do generally stretch to both sides you know 😉

Aracer – when I said non existant I meant the gap that was reducing because I was already slowing from 70 to 50 to match the speed of the lorry and had timed my deceleration so I reached the junction just before having to brake due to the lorry (as was tought to me when I did an advanced driving courses initiated by my employer) My bad turn of phrase I suppose saying non existant gap – I was not up the ar$e of the lorry, what i meant was that I felt the gap that was there was suitable for me, and I was I feel driving correctly just didnt anticipate a van coming past at 90mph+ and slamming down to 50 to try and get into that gap

it does probably echo the OP though and what i said earlier, we all have differing levels of comfort when driving and one persons gap is another persons space

Ok. Let’s all stand down a little.

I bet your the sort of person that sits in the entrance waiting for the pump with the hose on the correct side, ignoring all the empty pumps and blocking the car behind from getting to them

Well since I am trying to bang on about being aware of other people’s needs, that’s not likely, is it?

Tip – insults are generally better if they’ve got a bit of thought behind them 🙂

it’s unlikely I’ll get in your way

I didn’t make this scenario up. It happens a lot, which is why I am talking about it.

Before you muscle through, spare a thought for those in front. If you do, then fine.

Nothing worse than thinking ‘right this is my spot’ only to be denied by some scumbag overtaking YOU (stopping you pulling out) and pulling back in in front of you, meaning you miss the next chance.

And yes this happens a lot, mostly on routes that are used by lots of suits in flash cars. Like the A417.

Nothing worse than thinking ‘right this is my spot’ only to be denied by some scumbag overtaking YOU (stopping you pulling out)

How does that happen, given that you get to the overtaking spot first, so will already be out overtaking before scumbag gets alongside you?

How does that happen, given that you get to the overtaking spot first, so will already be out overtaking before scumbag gets alongside you?

Because I look in my mirrors and won’t pull out if someone’s speeding up in a fast car to my left.

Maybe some people pull out early, I dunno. Think of an opening corner where the view progressively increases.

Because I look in my mirrors and won’t pull out if someone’s speeding up in a fast car to my left

It might be worth a glance in your right hand side mirror too in these situations 🙂

It might be worth a glance in your right hand side mirror too in these situations

Er.. yeah.. getting my sides of the road mixed up.. it’s confusing driving abroad 🙂

You know, I agree with a lot of what you say, but sometimes you just need to stop digging. (-:

Thinking about this (ie, the whole “waiting to overtake / never going to overtake” business), you can usually tell fairly readily from road positioning as to who’s actually going to try to overtake and who’s content just to sit there until the Rapture.

Well we’re all convinced everyone else on the thread is a terrible driver, when in reality we are probably all ok.

Anyway, the best way to deal with slow drivers is to learn to relax 🙂

you can usually tell fairly readily from road positioning as to who’s actually going to try to overtake and who’s content just to sit there until the Rapture

You’d think. Although it’s worth noting that being 3ft behind a lorry might make it look like you want to pass but it’s a terrible place to be if you actually want to.

They’re on the wrong side of the road for a start.

So what’s all this about coffeeking?
Are you also coyoteboy on here?

Some sort of test?

Richmars – no, you moron, I’m a member of two forums and was canvassing opinion from both areas – why would it be some sort of test? Are you that paranoid? And why the need to repeatedly point it out, do you think it’s somehow me trying to plan an attack? “look look guys, he’s asking the same question elsewhere!”….so? They raised a similar point to here, hence I’ve taken that on board as advice.

And to the person who asked if I’d do the move with a police car behind – yes I would and have seen a police car overtake there too, which reinforced my opinion of it being fairly safe.

And to the guy who asked if I had thought of the IAM test – yes I have, I would do it but I don’t see the value quite as much as you do – I already follow most of their techniques intuitively, so much so that the one mentioned earlier asked if I had been involved myself.
I really find members tend to grate a little when talking to them, it’s a personality thing, but possibly only due to the limited number I’ve met, they assume a moral high ground, which is fine – they’re trained etc so deserve some respect in the field, but it’s the way they seem to try to ram it [their membership] down your throat and patronise that I find distasteful and offputting.

Anyway, the best way to deal with slow drivers is to learn to relax

Agreed, I’m always relaxed while driving. This is why I find it a tad annoying when people assume I’m a nut trying to overtake dangerously 🙂 .

This is why I find it a tad annoying when people assume…

Mate this is STW!

At least people don’t assume they know all about you just because of the car you drive… 🙄

🙂 I once had a chap pull up at the lights (in my other car) and shout across the junction “you must have a really small %^&*” and race off. I could bearly drive for laughing 🙂

People keep shouting stuff at me in Germany whilst I ride my bike, I’ve got no idea what they want 🙂

Ignore them, you can wash it all you like.

They do it whilst riding as well as washing. I do ignore them 🙂

I really find members tend to grate a little when talking to them, it’s a personality thing,

Interesting you should say that. I looked into the various advanced driving options a good few years ago, and it struck me as odd then that it seemed to be some sort of social club. I had a mental image of a roomful of middle-aged blokes wearing donkey jackets, standing around eating vol-au-vents and talking at length about what great drivers they all were.

Well, perhaps not, but it seemed an odd thing to base a social structure around. Like, a riding club get together and go out for rides; an advanced drivers’ club get together and, what, drive in a superior manner with each other?

I decided, on the whole, that I’d rather go to the pub.

Well, perhaps not, but it seemed an odd thing to base a social structure around.

Plenty of veeery odd people around 🙂 People build social clubs around their new cars. I don’t mean classics that they are working on or something, but ones just from the dealer.

“Oooh, did you know that if you flick the indicator when the car’s off you get ONE parking light only..? Wowee!”

IAM but possibly only due to the limited number I’ve met, they assume a moral high ground, which is fine – they’re trained etc

I got driven into town by someone doing all the IAM stuff. I noticed she didn’t indicate across a set of mini-roundabouts.

‘I had already observed that no one would benefit from by signalling’

Didn’t ask for a lift back.

pardon my ignorance but is IAM = Institute of Audi Motorists ?

those drivers that know best and are the best drivers on the road, so good they can do anything they like and good enough to have a lane on the motorway reserved exclusely for their use? 😆

Overtaking – I think 90% of motorists in the UK havn’t a clue how to do it, full stop. Unless they are on a dual carriageway or motorway, they won’t do it, pulling in to the opposite lane is seemingly enough to induce terror.

I get it quite a lot on the bike becuase I don’t ride in the gutter. So some clueless **** comes up behind me, and follows me for a few miles, despite there being acres of space for them to overtake.

Invariably, when they eventually decide to go for a gap, they do so when they have to make a swift overtake due to oncoming traffic, only neglect to find the right gear, so as they flop their foot down and gingerly edge one wheel into the opposite carriageway, the engine is still glugging along at 5rpm, so they get alongside and then realise they have to pull in.

Gah. Clueless. At least you can hear impatient numpties coming a mile off.

Overtaking – I think 90% of motorists in the UK havn’t a clue how to do it, full stop

Try driving in the US. I don’t think the figure is 90% btw. More like 10%.

‘I had already observed that no one would benefit from by signalling’

My driving instructor taught me that. It’s a fair point, but I am of the opinion that it’s sometimes good to form automatic habits.

I get it quite a lot on the bike

Not quite the same thing on the bike because people don’t treat it as proper overtaking.

Not quite the same thing on the bike because people don’t treat it as proper overtaking.

That was my point. A) they should, and B) if you can’t get past a bike doing 20mph cleanly, frankly you should hand your licence in and get a bus pass.

I may have been making statistics up though, guilty as charged.

I get it quite a lot on the bike becuase I don’t ride in the gutter. So some clueless **** comes up behind me, and follows me for a few miles, despite there being acres of space for them to overtake.

Funny, round here that’s the one situation where people will overtake. Unfortunately they do it blindly, and will joyfully swerve into oncoming traffic. It’s always worth looking out for cyclists on the opposite side of the road, cos if there’s a car coming up behind them there’s a good chance that you’ll have to take evasive manoeuvres soon.

My driving instructor taught me that. It’s a fair point, but I am of the opinion that it’s sometimes good to form automatic habits.

Yeah, +1. I’d rather subconsciously clip the indicator than stop and think “now, do I need to indicate here?” I can see where they’re going with it, but I’d rather divert what little electricity I have running round my brain to slightly more pressing tasks such as lookin where I’m bloody going.

Decent Troll CK. Good Effort.

And to the guy who asked if I had thought of the IAM test – yes I have, I would do it but I don’t see the value quite as much as you do – I already follow most of their techniques intuitively, so much so that the one mentioned earlier asked if I had been involved myself.

Cougar – Member

Interesting you should say that. I looked into the various advanced driving options a good few years ago, and it struck me as odd then that it seemed to be some sort of social club. I had a mental image of a roomful of middle-aged blokes wearing donkey jackets, standing around eating vol-au-vents and talking at length about what great drivers they all were.

Well, perhaps not, but it seemed an odd thing to base a social structure around. Like, a riding club get together and go out for rides; an advanced drivers’ club get together and, what, drive in a superior manner with each other?

I decided, on the whole, that I’d rather go to the pub.

Everyone I know who’s done the test has got something from it, granted some more than others. The ultimate ‘value’ (proven) is that drivers who have passed the advanced test have an accident record seven times lower than the average.

Isn’t it amazing how many people (men mostly) think they are already good drivers thank you and have nothing to learn? Cougar’s “I’d rather go to the pub” comment sums it up!

Driving is the most dangerous activity most of us will ever undertake yet most people aren’t prepared to admit they could be better at it and do something about it.

The IAM has over 100,000 members. I joined when I was 21, my most recent Associates have been 19 and 23 (both passed btw). True some local groups organise socials – my group does – you don’t have to go to them.

Re the comment about not indicating on a roundabout – once again, take a specific skill out of context and you can read what you like into it. What we teach is that you should always consider whether or not someone could benefit and signal where appropriate. (In contrast to your ‘average’ driver who will signal all the time, even when it can be misconstrued, or not at all..)

Don’t knock the IAM til you’ve tried it.

(In fairness to Rospa and the commercial providers out there, I should point out there are plenty of other people providing driver training)

I feel this thread would benefit from the driving skills and advice of Surf Matt…

I’m starting to feel like he’s still with us anyway, reading this.

Re: all the bickering on the last page about overtaking a queue of traffic and whether its right or not when others aren’t using the opportunity to overtake the leader…the original complaint was people getting annoyed when you push back into a small gap further up the queue as you leapfrog your way past.

I don’t see how anyone can claim that overtaking traffic when there isn’t a suitable gap to pull back in is sensible? If there is a line of six cars all travelling at the correct distance apart, or closer, there is not enough space to pull back in so the overtake is dangerous unless you can see far enough ahead to guarantee that you can overtake all six cars in one manoeuvre. Having to do two overtakes, pushing in after three cars, is bad driving, dangerous, and impatient. You are meant to drive according to the conditions, if the conditions are doddery old fools driving at 40mph, then you have to drive to those conditions, however much it may annoy you.

After all, it takes just one driver to close up the gap to prevent you pulling back in, and you end up with a possible head on collision with the innocent vehicle travelling the other way.

Everyone I know who’s done the test has got something from it … Isn’t it amazing how many people (men mostly) think they are already good drivers thank you and have nothing to learn? Cougar’s “I’d rather go to the pub” comment sums it up!

In truth, I don’t disagree. My “witty” closing comment was really aimed at a lack of desire to join the IAM socially; I looked into it in the first place because I wanted to improve my driving. In my defence over the whole subject, it was well over ten years ago I looked into it, so I may be being unfair.

I’m Scottish. I overtake. I don’t flash my lights or be a dick at others who overtake me.

The ultimate ‘value’ (proven) is that drivers who have passed the advanced test have an accident record seven times lower than the average.

Than the average what? 25 years since my last accident, I drive an average of 700km per week, and I drive that a ****, am I average?

The ultimate ‘value’ (proven) is that drivers who have passed the advanced test have an accident record seven times lower than the average

Misleading statistic alert!

Correlation does not necessarily mean a causal link! Have you learned nothing from STW?

It’s mostly older people taking the IAM, isn’t it? Aren’t most accidents caused by young men? Boy racers aren’t going to join the IAM are they? All those things if true would completely mess up the stats.

Statistics FAIL.

Is there anything the IAM teach that you wouldn’t pick up by thinking about your driving over the years?

perhaps the people you’re overtaking are just expressing their distain for your wanton waste of expensive fuel?

Having lived in Scotland for the majority of years I’ve been driving I’ve maybe been flashed at once or twice after overtaking and that in 20 odd years. I’ve lived in a few areas in Scotland including around Glasgow.

To experience people flashing at you in 60% of your overtaking moves suggests to me that you drive like an idiot at least 50% of the time.